Marching for Macragge with the First Born

[Charybdis]

I came into 40k late in 8th and purely because of the aesthetic began with the Primaris units. With 9th edition and the raise to two wounds, I started looking at the 'Classic' marines. 

The Devastator squad and Vanguard Veterans where the first units I invested in, again mainly the way they look, but I've been very impressed with how they play competitively on the tabletop.

I've found the Victrix Guard to be quite a handy unit also.

 

With this interest in First Born units I recently invested in a Razorback and Rhino and am wondering what the best unit to fill them with is? The Tactical squad seem very interesting but is there a best load out for Ultra's? 

 

Focussing on Ultra specific units, I was wondering what my brothers in blue thoughts were on the Tyrannic War Veterans? Their Special Issue Boltguns seem interesting and points wise they seem quite reasonable. Are there any Ultra specific strats/combo's that benefit them or any of the other first born Ultramarine units in particular?

 

I'm very keen to expand my knowledge and collection so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Captain Idaho]

I'm not really sold on Tyrannic War Veterans outside a list against Tyranids (i.e. narrative based). The loss of Strategum support hurts Sternguard in general, which is a shame.

 

I must say yes, Vanguard and Devastators are stand out competitive choices.

 

Devastators for Ultramarines work perfectly well in transports if needed too, as they can get to position and jump out without suffering a -1 to hit during the Tactical Doctrine, which is generally when you'd be moving about in the game anyway.

 

Sternguard with combi-weapons, Company Veterans and Tactical Marines can all make use of a transport to jump out and put some hurt on the opponent and take objectives etc.

 

I also like to put a Chapter Champion in a Rhino/Razorback with some Marines, hop out and use him to wipe something out for cheap. With the Blade of Triumph you'll be a massive threat to lots of targets. Damage 3 is the new magic number it seems lately, what with the rise of 3 wound infantry and that only 2 wounding hits will kill most characters, even Primaris ones.

[Charybdis]

I'm not really sold on Tyrannic War Veterans outside a list against Tyranids (i.e. narrative based). The loss of Strategum support hurts Sternguard in general, which is a shame.

 

I must say yes, Vanguard and Devastators are stand out competitive choices.

 

Devastators for Ultramarines work perfectly well in transports if needed too, as they can get to position and jump out without suffering a -1 to hit during the Tactical Doctrine, which is generally when you'd be moving about in the game anyway.

 

Sternguard with combi-weapons, Company Veterans and Tactical Marines can all make use of a transport to jump out and put some hurt on the opponent and take objectives etc.

 

I also like to put a Chapter Champion in a Rhino/Razorback with some Marines, hop out and use him to wipe something out for cheap. With the Blade of Triumph you'll be a massive threat to lots of targets. Damage 3 is the new magic number it seems lately, what with the rise of 3 wound infantry and that only 2 wounding hits will kill most characters, even Primaris ones.

Appreciate the advice.

 

The Chapter Champion sounds especially interesting as I mainly run up against fast melee armies e.g White Scars, Blood Angels. 

 

Generally speaking I'm finding greater success with Ultramarines as a slow moving castle and scoring the Primary in the later turns. I think what I need is a unit that can contest objectives and slow down my opponents early turn points gain whilst my firepower whittles them away.

The Sternguard combined with a Chapter Champion sound very promising.

[Charybdis]

I've not seen it discussed yet, but how are people finding Whirlwinds in 9th? Considering the importance of terrain and the sheer amount of firepower that vehicles go up against now, the ability to avoid line of sight and shoot seems ideal. 

 

I'm a big fan of Sergeant Chronus, so putting him in one could be a solid option?

[Prot]

I play against an opponent regularly who uses 2 Whirlwinds in most lists, and sometimes just 1. It doesn't kill a ton, but the strat he uses with it is incredibly annoying. I don't think I would put Chronus in it, however I think it's a good vehicle.

[crazyterran]

Sternguard are a fun unit if you already liked using Tactical Marine style models - as they are essentially Tacs with nicer bolters and an extra attack. It definitely hurts that they no longer have the Strategem to add the extra to wound roll, but the fact they are two wounds and can put out decent attacks and can ride around in Firstborn vehicles is pretty nice. 

 

For the Chapter/Company Ancient, I'm not sure if I'm sold on the UM Unique Chapter ancient anymore - for 70 you get a 5+ Invuln save for the generic one, for 75 you get +1 attack but no Invuln save, though I suppose the Invuln only starts to take effect on AP-4. 

 

Definitely something that will stand there and scare weakened units either way, though. 

 

Some of my favourite firstborn units for this edition are either Forgeworld Stuff (Deredeo, Leviathan, Fire Raptor) or everyone's favourites (Attack Bikes). 

 

If you are looking at Vanguard on foot I would suggest looking at Company Veterans as well if you are keeping them smaller, as you get the added Bodyguard bonus and more weapon flexibility. Also a good excuse to use the Invictarii Models that Forgeworld makes!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I use a terminator ancient. He’s definitely a lynchpin.

[Charybdis]

Sternguard are a fun unit if you already liked using Tactical Marine style models - as they are essentially Tacs with nicer bolters and an extra attack. It definitely hurts that they no longer have the Strategem to add the extra to wound roll, but the fact they are two wounds and can put out decent attacks and can ride around in Firstborn vehicles is pretty nice. 

 

For the Chapter/Company Ancient, I'm not sure if I'm sold on the UM Unique Chapter ancient anymore - for 70 you get a 5+ Invuln save for the generic one, for 75 you get +1 attack but no Invuln save, though I suppose the Invuln only starts to take effect on AP-4. 

 

Definitely something that will stand there and scare weakened units either way, though. 

 

Some of my favourite firstborn units for this edition are either Forgeworld Stuff (Deredeo, Leviathan, Fire Raptor) or everyone's favourites (Attack Bikes). 

 

If you are looking at Vanguard on foot I would suggest looking at Company Veterans as well if you are keeping them smaller, as you get the added Bodyguard bonus and more weapon flexibility. Also a good excuse to use the Invictarii Models that Forgeworld makes!

I completely forgot Company Veterans! Thank you I'll check them out now.

 

Agree even with its recent nerfs the Leviathan is still a bit of a beast and rule of cool wise looks phenomenal. 

 

Isn't the Deredeo most effective against flyers? Considering that the general opinion has been that flyers have taken a nerf I assumed people had stopped running them? 

 

Love the Fire Raptor. Stunning model and the sheer firepower it brings looks like it can make up for the points cost. I do like a combined arms feel to my army. I'm very tempted by the Xiphon Interceptor whenever I'm on Forgeworld. 

 

Appreciate the advice brother 

[Charybdis]

I use a terminator ancient. He’s definitely a lynchpin.

Looking at his stats now and he is rather impressive. 

 

If you don't mind my asking are you running him up the field with the main force, or dropping him in from deep strike with a specialised unit? 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

He always sticks with the mobile castle. He is the best ancient by far imo. Can’t go wrong with a powerfist and stormbolter. He is basically an HQ equivalent. Edited March 19, 2021 by Black Blow Fly

[Captain Idaho]

Our Chapter Champion is superior in my view to the Company Champion upgrade because against Characters he can reroll hits as well as wounds plus he does have an additional attack from the Champion's blade.

 

2+ save is the equivalent of a 5+ Invulnerable against -3 AP anyway.

 

They're very similar and it depends on whether you want the extra attack and reroll to hits vs characters.

 

I can see a good call for both, basically.

 

Either way I rate the killing potential of a character like that to deal with problematic powerful characters and Elites who might otherwise chew through our infantry.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Captain Idaho

[crazyterran]

 

Sternguard are a fun unit if you already liked using Tactical Marine style models - as they are essentially Tacs with nicer bolters and an extra attack. It definitely hurts that they no longer have the Strategem to add the extra to wound roll, but the fact they are two wounds and can put out decent attacks and can ride around in Firstborn vehicles is pretty nice. 

 

For the Chapter/Company Ancient, I'm not sure if I'm sold on the UM Unique Chapter ancient anymore - for 70 you get a 5+ Invuln save for the generic one, for 75 you get +1 attack but no Invuln save, though I suppose the Invuln only starts to take effect on AP-4. 

 

Definitely something that will stand there and scare weakened units either way, though. 

 

Some of my favourite firstborn units for this edition are either Forgeworld Stuff (Deredeo, Leviathan, Fire Raptor) or everyone's favourites (Attack Bikes). 

 

If you are looking at Vanguard on foot I would suggest looking at Company Veterans as well if you are keeping them smaller, as you get the added Bodyguard bonus and more weapon flexibility. Also a good excuse to use the Invictarii Models that Forgeworld makes!

I completely forgot Company Veterans! Thank you I'll check them out now.

 

Agree even with its recent nerfs the Leviathan is still a bit of a beast and rule of cool wise looks phenomenal. 

 

Isn't the Deredeo most effective against flyers? Considering that the general opinion has been that flyers have taken a nerf I assumed people had stopped running them? 

 

Love the Fire Raptor. Stunning model and the sheer firepower it brings looks like it can make up for the points cost. I do like a combined arms feel to my army. I'm very tempted by the Xiphon Interceptor whenever I'm on Forgeworld. 

 

Appreciate the advice brother 

 

 

Ah yes, the Xiphon - the current list I'm painting up has a Xiphon acting as an escort for my Fire Raptor. Haven't had a chance to play with it but it looks cool in my head!

Deredeos look good against everything now, in my opinion, with the twin heavy bolter, the anvilus battery, and the missile launcher up top is a pretty good amount of fire power for 210pts.