Castigator Reveal

[ThePenitentOne]

I like it, and I think it was necessary. I agree it could have been slightly more decorative, but I think it's okay that not everything is a shrine. If this kit was as over the top blinged out as the Exorcist and the Immolator, those kits would be less special by the comparison. We see this with the Sisters Rhino too. And I think it's appropriate to have the possibility within the range to depict a different feel to the army.

 

I've seen more "military" looking forces represented before, and while it isn't the way I see sisters, I think it's valid. These are guys who, for decades have been swapping out pipe organs for whirlwind launchers as an aesthetic choice; there were a fair range of opinions on the stained glass Immo turrets, and some folks sought different options there too. Like I said, I personally prefer over the top baroque too, but I like that the range is nuanced enough to afford other possibilities.

 

As for the Trinity:

 

I like it, and it's fluffy. I am wary of the slippery slope that could erode a core concept if not kept under control. Upgrades to the Heavy Bolter helped us somewhat in that regard, giving us some firepower from  distances > 24". But that's still only 36". Until this tank, we've had 1 option with a greater threat range than 36"- two if you count single shot HK Missiles. I just feel like that's a little limiting to a military force, and I think it's good to have one more tool in the toolbox. 

 

As for the Repressor:

 

I like it too; I had expected it. But I think that Melta is so good in the current meta that Repressor Rets and Doms with melta  would displace every other vehicle choice, and that mobile Melta spam would become the most hated thing in the edition. I think this tank may do more for the army in terms of diversifying available options.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Putting aside my decorative opinions, I think it looks like the best predator across the various ranges from deimos to current 40k. It definitely feels like a brick in the same way as a leman russ, which is appropriate for a MBT.

 

But I'm confused to people saying that it's an archetype that they wanted for SoB. I might be a bit new to playing the army, but from back to their Witch Hunter days, the army was very much restrained from having ranged anti tank, but compensated with a ton of short ranged fire power and melee capabilities. So sure the tank fills a gap in the range, but that gap always felt very deliberate.

 

Idk, feels weird to have a tank that functions as a tank for sob

[WrathOfTheLion]

I'm new to the army as well, but it's just something I wanted. When people ask what kits I want, I have two answers, an MBT and a sword and board squad like the one on the triumph.

 

Why those are my answers, I can't quite remember how I decided those, but I have a solid idea of what I want and this does half of it.

Edited March 21, 2021 by WrathOfTheLion

[Nomus Sardauk]

 Being close enough to use a flamer is 90% of the Sisters modus operandi. The other 10% is the Exorcist.

 

And that's exactly the problem, 90% of the Sisters' arsenal is so short-ranged it forces you to rush the enemy to get in range, limiting your options and allowing the enemy to largely predict what you're going to do and take steps to counter it. The whole Holy Trinity is very thematic and highly beloved, but it shouldn't be the be-all and end-all of the Sisters' arsenal. Long range Anti-Armour firepower is something the Sisters have always lacked, it's a tactical void that the Exorcist just isn't really suited to fill and really they're better employed elsewhere, the Castigator is made precisely to fil that gap. Think about it, if your MM Immolators all get immobilised or destroyed before they close the distance to the enemy armour you're in serious trouble, as you'll be stuck waiting for your Melta-toting Infantry to slog it into range, all while at the mercy of incoming enemy fire.

 

Regardless, at the end of the day the Castigator is another tool in the Sisters' box of options, and I think we can all agree more options is never a bad thing.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Nomus Sardauk

[SkimaskMohawk]

But that was the point...that they lacked stable long range anti tank.

 

There's so much close and medium range power in the sob list right now that they can't just get long range fire support on top of what they have. And while an army like marines is thematically supposed to be well rounded and designed around it, the sisters aren't. Why are they forcing more build archetypes when they aren't required?

Edited March 21, 2021 by SkimaskMohawk

[Evil Eye]

I kinda like it. Definitely prefer the double autocannon configuration, but the battle cannon isn't bad either. I feel as shown it's a bit cluttered but not Repulsor-tier cluttered, and it could be the rather overly clean paintjob not helping matters.

 

I actually feel like the turret could do with some "de-modernizing" though- some subtle weld seams and armour texture would make it look a lot better and more like an actual tank. Doesn't have to look T-34 levels of scrappy of course, but even more modern tanks (and definitely the older tanks that 40K takes influence from) tend to have quite a lot of rough bits and interesting texture up close.

[Montford]

I re-watched the preview for the Castigator. They did say that the heavy bolters on the tank cannot be replaced by heavy flamers, but what if they can be replaced by multi meltas? That would mean this thing can probably kill anything big single model it faces. And I noticed it seems to have extra armor on the front of the turret (compared to a Predator turret) and extra armor at the front of the upper hull: maybe this will be T8. Pure speculation but consider this: a T8 Tank with a battle cannon, a pair of multi meltas, with a 6+ Invuln save and it can use Miracle Dice. Yeah, baby!

[ATPete]

 

 Being close enough to use a flamer is 90% of the Sisters modus operandi. The other 10% is the Exorcist.

 

Long range Anti-Armour firepower is something the Sisters have always lacked, it's a tactical void that the Exorcist just isn't really suited to fill and really they're better employed elsewhere

 That's the thing the Exorcist is precisely suited for, blowing up tanks with a rain of missiles. That's always been its thing, and now it even has the shots to hassle heavy infantry, it's great.

 

 I really want to see what weapons the castigator actually has because the Sisters have a glut of excellent heavy bolter platforms so the turret weapon needs to do a lot of work. If it is a Battle Cannon it will essentially be less useful than an exorcist unless it offers the option to shoot twice or something to make up the firepower difference.

[leth]

I like. It. Probably won’t run it because I like boots on the ground. 

[Progenitor]

 

 

 Being close enough to use a flamer is 90% of the Sisters modus operandi. The other 10% is the Exorcist.

 

Long range Anti-Armour firepower is something the Sisters have always lacked, it's a tactical void that the Exorcist just isn't really suited to fill and really they're better employed elsewhere

 That's the thing the Exorcist is precisely suited for, blowing up tanks with a rain of missiles. That's always been its thing, and now it even has the shots to hassle heavy infantry, it's great.

 

 I really want to see what weapons the castigator actually has because the Sisters have a glut of excellent heavy bolter platforms so the turret weapon needs to do a lot of work. If it is a Battle Cannon it will essentially be less useful than an exorcist unless it offers the option to shoot twice or something to make up the firepower difference.

 

 

Battle cannons haven't been through the 9th ed weapon re-do though yet have they? So, while it may currently be "useless" maybe the new version won't be, AND, GW specifically called it a Castigator Battlecannon the same as we got the option of Castigator Autocannons too, so it may have it's own rules that set it apart. 

 

Maybe we should be patient and wait for the rules before writing it off as unusable compared to the excellent Exorcist that we already know and love? 

After all, it's a new kit and if they want it to sell, they'll make it OP anyway! XD

[ATPete]

 It'd be sweet if the autocannon option is something close to the predator or armiger autocannons, but the twin barrels are throwing me off. Wonder when the codex is due?

[RolandTHTG]

 It'd be sweet if the autocannon option is something close to the predator or armiger autocannons, but the twin barrels are throwing me off. Wonder when the codex is due?

 

It's close to the setup of the Leman Russ Exterminator, which is a twin linked autocannon. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I like it, and I think it was necessary. I agree it could have been slightly more decorative, but I think it's okay that not everything is a shrine. If this kit was as over the top blinged out as the Exorcist and the Immolator, those kits would be less special by the comparison. We see this with the Sisters Rhino too. And I think it's appropriate to have the possibility within the range to depict a different feel to the army.

 

I've seen more "military" looking forces represented before, and while it isn't the way I see sisters, I think it's valid. These are guys who, for decades have been swapping out pipe organs for whirlwind launchers as an aesthetic choice; there were a fair range of opinions on the stained glass Immo turrets, and some folks sought different options there too. Like I said, I personally prefer over the top baroque too, but I like that the range is nuanced enough to afford other possibilities.

 

As for the Trinity:

 

I like it, and it's fluffy. I am wary of the slippery slope that could erode a core concept if not kept under control. Upgrades to the Heavy Bolter helped us somewhat in that regard, giving us some firepower from distances > 24". But that's still only 36". Until this tank, we've had 1 option with a greater threat range than 36"- two if you count single shot HK Missiles. I just feel like that's a little limiting to a military force, and I think it's good to have one more tool in the toolbox.

 

As for the Repressor:

 

I like it too; I had expected it. But I think that Melta is so good in the current meta that Repressor Rets and Doms with melta would displace every other vehicle choice, and that mobile Melta spam would become the most hated thing in the edition. I think this tank may do more for the army in terms of diversifying available options.

on the smaller tables 36" range reaches from mid deployment zone to the middle of the opposing deployment zone...how much more range is really necessary?

 

As I've said previously I don't hate it, I just think it's a bit uninspired.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

It'd be sweet if the autocannon option is something close to the predator or armiger autocannons, but the twin barrels are throwing me off. Wonder when the codex is due?

It's close to the setup of the Leman Russ Exterminator, which is a twin linked autocannon.

autocannons kinda suck.

I built my LR late in 8th as an exterminator and now that HB do 2 damage its like what's the point of the autocannon?

[Gederas]

It'd be sweet if the autocannon option is something close to the predator or armiger autocannons, but the twin barrels are throwing me off. Wonder when the codex is due?

It's close to the setup of the Leman Russ Exterminator, which is a twin linked autocannon.

autocannons kinda suck.

I built my LR late in 8th as an exterminator and now that HB do 2 damage its like what's the point of the autocannon?

Higher Strength and better range. Heavy Bolters are 36" S5, Autocannons are 48" S7

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

 

It'd be sweet if the autocannon option is something close to the predator or armiger autocannons, but the twin barrels are throwing me off. Wonder when the codex is due?

It's close to the setup of the Leman Russ Exterminator, which is a twin linked autocannon.

autocannons kinda suck.

I built my LR late in 8th as an exterminator and now that HB do 2 damage its like what's the point of the autocannon?

Higher Strength and better range. Heavy Bolters are 36" S5, Autocannons are 48" S7

great 48" range on small tables, more likely to to do 1 damage to high T and W units...

HBs also get another shot and 2 damage...

 

Point being a single HB now has a significantly higher maximum damage output than a single autocannon does, and that's kind of a big deal for a weapon billed as good against elite infantry and light armor.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Isual]

 

Higher Strength and better range. Heavy Bolters are 36" S5, Autocannons are 48" S7

great 48" range on small tables, more likely to to do 1 damage to high T and W units...

HBs also get another shot and 2 damage...

 

 

 

Autocannons do 2 damge too, so its strength 7/2shots vs strength 5/3 shots.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Isual

[ValourousHeart]

 

 

Higher Strength and better range. Heavy Bolters are 36" S5, Autocannons are 48" S7

great 48" range on small tables, more likely to to do 1 damage to high T and W units...

HBs also get another shot and 2 damage...

 

Autocannons do 2 damge too, so its strength 7/2shots vs strength 5/3 shots.

 

The autocannons that the Suppressor use have 3 shots, S7, AP -1, and 2 damage.

The autocannons on the Predator have 2D3 shot, S7, AP -1, and 3 damage.

 

The Armiger is the same as the Predator just longer range.

 

So the sister version could be 48 inch range, 4D3 shots, S7, AP -1, and 3 damage plus the 3 Heavy Bolters for an extra 9 shots, S5, AP -1, and 2 damage.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

Higher Strength and better range. Heavy Bolters are 36" S5, Autocannons are 48" S7

great 48" range on small tables, more likely to to do 1 damage to high T and W units...

HBs also get another shot and 2 damage...

 

Autocannons do 2 damge too, so its strength 7/2shots vs strength 5/3 shots.

Ya, my bad. Been a while since I thought about an autocannon before tonight lol.

But that extra strength doesn't really seem to out weigh the extra shot of the HB

[Uberlord Gendo]

I get the line they're walking here- trying to throw a bone to the people who like their exorcists with round missile pods- but I wish/hope they include extra bits for blinging it out.

Honestly, I'd take a Russ done in that style for regular guard. Not the standard russ, but one of a few options for the aesthetic touches.

The large faces on the turret seem good for freehanding and adding statues and the like, anyone got any ideas?

(I'd love some little gargoyles. Maybe I'll dig out some of the spare eagle bosses from a Knight and use those?)

[dracpanzer]

 

I'll keep my MM Immo's thanks very much.

Should've been a Repressor.

I like the design of the Repressor, but honestly, what would a Repressor really add to Sororitas? We already have two distinct transports, and I don't think a Repressor differentiates enough. If we get another transport option I want a flyer or a Land Raider.

I like the Castigator, but it doesn't wow me like the Paragons did. And I'm a full of tread head guy too

The Repressor allows six models to fire out of it. Rets with heavy flamers, Doms with meltas, double BSS with stormbolters and combi's. Take your pick.

 

Repressors let Sisters move and shoot while forcing your opponent to burn through the vehicle just to have the girls pile out and keep on going.

 

So much better than a land raider.

[TheOneTrueZon]

If 40k had a World of Tanks type game, I'd rock this all day on style points.

[Indefragable]

This may not be a popular take, but I am really not a fan of the Castigator. 

 

Do the Adepta Sororitas need more armor? Yes.

Do they need more powerful long-range shooting? Yes.

Do they need more vehicles? Yes.

 

Do they need a hybridized port from both the IG and SM Codexes? No.

 

For me (in my not-always-humble-opinion), part of the appeal of the SoB is their uniqueness. They are different from not only other Imperial factions, but from other Factions in the game/lore in general. 

 

Rant: 

Hidden Content

 

Imperial Guard are the military of the Imperium.

Space Marines are the knightly orders/Commandos of the Imperium.

Custodies and Sisters of Silence are the praetorians and household guard of the Imperium.

AdMech are......they're totally own awesome thing. 

Adepta Sororitas are the _____ of the Imperium. 

 

So by that comparison, tanks and tank squadrons etc... fit perfectly with the Guard. Space Marines having relatively light armored vehicles (Predators) or ancient special relics (Land Raiders) has auxiliary support to their primary role of heavy infantry fits as well (although that is a direction they seem to be moving away from more and more). I think it's kind of dumb that the Custodies have tanks and such....but at least for them they (mostly) exotic, unique things that look and feel totally different to everything else in the Imperium.  AdMech....are just crazy cool weird in their own way and don't match up 1:1 with anything else (excellent!). 

 

Enter the Adepta Sororitas. They are zealots, the Faith Militant, the army of the Ecclesiarchy. They do not (nor should they) have the war academies or training or systems of orders and maneuver as the Imperial Guard. They do not (nor should they) have the bio-engineering, gene-tinkering augmentations nor the warrior-monk-raised-with-a-weapon-in-hand training nor the blitzkrieg doctrine of the Space Marines. They also don't have the history of the Astartes, the warrior legacy of 10,000 years. Obviously they are not the Custodies or AdMech so I will skip those comparisons. What do they have? 

 

I mean, how does a Castigator get maintenance? In the IG it's Techpriests. In the Astartes its Techmarines. The Ecclesiarchy and AdMech are rivals, to put it mildly. 

 

For me, the Exorcist is what gives the SoB flavor. An artillery carriage masquerading as a musical instrument. It's so hilariously over-the-top and ridiculous, yet so on-brand for the faction, that it just works. It's so deliciously 40k for that reason. I also like to think of the Exorcist and Immolator (and Repressor in its own way) as chop-shop productions of the SoB: the Ecclesiarchy was allowed to have a contract to purchase armored cars (Rhinos) to protects its clerics on less friendly worlds, since they're just transports and not offensive weapons platforms. Only to have some enterprising Sisters take them into the garage and spit out versions with gigantic flamethrowers and a freaking organ missile launcher. The subtext of them skirting arms-control/embargoes is part of the appeal to me, the theme of the Faction. 

 

Penitent Engines and Mortificators skirt the line in a good way, in my opinion. They are kinda like Dreadnoughts, but different enough to stand on their own feet. They look like they are super-heavily-modified Armored Sentinels to me, which is a good thing from a theme perspective (see above "chop shop" comment). They are a similar concept to Dreadnoughts, but a vastly different execution and are arguably better for that reason. 

 

In terms of non-vehicles, the Triumph of St. Katherine is truly a Triumph in so many ways. First in its absolutely phenomenal model. Secondly in its concept: rather than being a super unit like a Primarch or a Gas or something, it's a group of Sisters with a super powerful relic. The whole concept is gorgeous and embraces the "difference" between them and other factions rather than attempting to hide it. 

 

 

TL;DR: I am not a fan of the Castigator, it's too much of a tank as a tank for me. I wish they had gone a different direction with an equivalent unit,  almost like a melta bomb trebuchet or something. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Indefragable

[Lienna]

TL;DR: I am not a fan of the Castigator, it's too much of a tank as a tank for me. I wish they had gone a different direction with an equivalent unit,  almost like a melta bomb trebuchet or something.

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head from my view too.

 

Give me a mortar vehicle that fires melta bombs. Have a team of two loading it, one sister putting the bomb in the breech while a second blesses and anoints it with holy oils. Leaves room for there to be a shrine in the back to perform the blessing, tying it into the range, while giving the girls more long range firepower.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing how people convert the Castigator to make it less 'subtle' and more 'saintly. Even so I really want the lore to add melta or bolter rounds to those main guns somehow. I appreciate that the occasional plasma gun sneaks in past the trinity rule (though to be fair those still burn heretics), but the sisters getting a new tank and not making the main cannon one of their holy weapons feels like a missed opportunity.

[ATPete]

 I think you're being close minded, the castigator is clearly a space protestant to the exorcist's space catholicism.

Edited March 29, 2021 by ATPete