Crusade FAQ

[Astartes Consul]

Worth pointing out that the small print at the top reads:

 

'The following is a compilation of clarifications and the more commonly asked questions which we have received regarding the Dark Angels rules presented in The Horus Heresy Book Nine – Crusade'

 

So whatever is potentially missing, it won't include Night Lords rules...

 

 

 

FWIW, I expect there will be an announcement today/tomorrow on WarCom and I wouldn't be surprised if this was indeed an incomplete or draft version uploaded by mistake. Makes no sense to have clearly seen some of the main concerns about DA rules, but stop after one RoW.

 

This is at least a sign that they have finally hired a new rules write and are at least working on stuff again I hope.

[WrathOfTheLion]

There's a redirect from the original thread in News and Rumours that's completely broken. Is it possible for that to be redirected/merged into this one or at least deleted if it's broke?

 

I don't know why it got deleted off of N&R in the first place, 40k FAQs get posted there all the time and are considered news. Leaving a dead link there is just totally useless though regardless of their decision on the matter.

Edited March 18, 2021 by WrathOfTheLion

[SkimaskMohawk]

There's a redirect from the original thread in News and Rumours that's completely broken. Is it possible for that to be redirected/merged into this one or at least deleted if it's broke?

 

I don't know why it got deleted off of N&R in the first place, 40k FAQs get posted there all the time and are considered news. Leaving a dead link there is just totally useless though regardless of their decision on the matter.

Lol they gotta follow gws lead of second class citizenry.

[Darkwrath121]

If they ARE going to comment on it or release an artice, it'll be in the morning or afternoon GMT once they 'reopen'.

Hmm... Oh dear.

 

What an odd situation

Edited March 18, 2021 by Darkwrath121

[Dagoth Ur]

There's a redirect from the original thread in News and Rumours that's completely broken. Is it possible for that to be redirected/merged into this one or at least deleted if it's broke?

 

I don't know why it got deleted off of N&R in the first place, 40k FAQs get posted there all the time and are considered news. Leaving a dead link there is just totally useless though regardless of their decision on the matter.

Yeah the threads got merged as far as I can tell. As for why leaving a shattered link and removing it from the N&R even though it is very significant news, you'll have to ask the powers-that-be, seeing as no explanation was considered necessary thus far.

[The Scorpion]

Love the changes they've made so far but I feel like they still missed a lot with Unbroken Vow, Eskaton Imperative, and upgrade prices.

 

Hot take: Deathwing should not have a RoW because it limits the way the elite of the First Legion can be deployed.

 

Forget the travesty that is the "hOLd tHe CeNTeR" rule of the current RoW, think about that scene from the book where the Lion and the Deathwing make landfall on Triplex via drop pod assault: it's impossible to recreate on tabletop. To this day, the Dark Angels have no way to put a veteran squad both in the troops slot and in a drop pod, nor can you can't build an armored spearhead of veterans or teleport termies (again, like in lore).

 

The "Deathwing" should work like the Word Bearers diabolist: a special consul that allows squads to purchase demonic rules (in this case veteran rules, with a price to match the increase in power). Alternatively, the DA could have a piece of wargear like the Mantle of Ultramar, that unlocks the use of termies & vets as troops choices.

[Dagoth Ur]

Ehh I dunno man, that seems like a roundabout way to accomplish something that could be relatively easily done via combining Aspects of both the Pride of the Legion RoW as well as the Orbital Assault RoW - at least it does to me.

 

>Terminators can deepstrike, but keep them in the Elite slot

>Veterans are troops and can take a droppod

>Fiddle around with the Marshall rule

>Maybe add some bonuses about holding objectives if you want (not too crazy about that aspect tbh).

>Keep the regular drawbacks of PotL, infantry has to either deepstrike or arrive via pods but can do so from T1 onwards, can't have more vehicles than infantry (DTs excluded maybe/ or maybe just pods excluded).

 

Or something like that, just spitballin' here.

 

Oh yeah, fix scion of the deathwing while we're at it.

[Brofist]

 

Love the changes they've made so far but I feel like they still missed a lot with Unbroken Vow, Eskaton Imperative, and upgrade prices.

 

Hot take: Deathwing should not have a RoW because it limits the way the elite of the First Legion can be deployed.

 

Forget the travesty that is the "hOLd tHe CeNTeR" rule of the current RoW, think about that scene from the book where the Lion and the Deathwing make landfall on Triplex via drop pod assault: it's impossible to recreate on tabletop. To this day, the Dark Angels have no way to put a veteran squad both in the troops slot and in a drop pod, nor can you can't build an armored spearhead of veterans or teleport termies (again, like in lore).

 

The "Deathwing" should work like the Word Bearers diabolist: a special consul that allows squads to purchase demonic rules (in this case veteran rules, with a price to match the increase in power). Alternatively, the DA could have a piece of wargear like the Mantle of Ultramar, that unlocks the use of termies & vets as troops choices.

 

Pride of the legion?

[SkimaskMohawk]

I think he wants troop veterans in pods. There seems to be a conflation between lore and table top.

 

Lore wise, every large capital ship in the crusade could teleport termies. Veterans could go in pods. Whatever. But the game balance is different.

 

As an example, you could easily build your list around combi veterans with pods and have basically no fat due to them being troops. Even raven guard have to fork out for two tactical squads at the very least before stuffing pods with special weapons.

 

And other than that, usually it's a special character whos giving out alternate troops to scoot around the rite restrictions; Zardu, golg, sigismund and various primarchs. The catch is that most of them require Warlord so you can start getting around too many restrictions or crafting combos that are too powerful.

[Gorgoff]

 

 

Love the changes they've made so far but I feel like they still missed a lot with Unbroken Vow, Eskaton Imperative, and upgrade prices.

Hot take: Deathwing should not have a RoW because it limits the way the elite of the First Legion can be deployed.

 

Forget the travesty that is the "hOLd tHe CeNTeR" rule of the current RoW, think about that scene from the book where the Lion and the Deathwing make landfall on Triplex via drop pod assault: it's impossible to recreate on tabletop. To this day, the Dark Angels have no way to put a veteran squad both in the troops slot and in a drop pod, nor can you can't build an armored spearhead of veterans or teleport termies (again, like in lore).

 

The "Deathwing" should work like the Word Bearers diabolist: a special consul that allows squads to purchase demonic rules (in this case veteran rules, with a price to match the increase in power). Alternatively, the DA could have a piece of wargear like the Mantle of Ultramar, that unlocks the use of termies & vets as troops choices.

You know... in the first story where the Iron Circle appears for the first time they deep strike with Perturabo.

Can they pull that off in the game?

:cuss no.

[Gattopardo]

Yes these are good points by Gorgoff and SMM. There are loads of scenes from the books that you can't really recreate with the Rites of War, even the legion specific ones. Another example that people have complained about is the Dreadwing Rite. The transport requirement of the Eskaton Imperative means you can't have Destroyers with jump packs and so you can't build an army that recreates the scene from Angels of Caliban where Dreadwing Destroyers descend from the sky on jump packs.

 

Here's the thing - I just don't see that as a valid complaint, personally. The Rites of War should create the flavour of the Legion (or aspect of the Legion) that they represent, in a way that is interesting and fun for both players (obviously some of them totally fail to do this - but that's another story entirely). If you want to recreate specific scenes in the lore, or play games based on forces depicted in specific scenes, that's totally possible by just agreeing it with your opponent and building armies that aren't constrained by the Rites of War or the force organisation chart or whatever. But the Rites have to be written with at least one eye on game balance. This means they're not going to allow stuff that is in the books. It's just the result of building a game system that, even if it's narrative driven, is still designed for a player base that largely play matched play games.

[The Scorpion]

Yes these are good points by Gorgoff and SMM. There are loads of scenes from the books that you can't really recreate with the Rites of War, even the legion specific ones. Another example that people have complained about is the Dreadwing Rite. The transport requirement of the Eskaton Imperative means you can't have Destroyers with jump packs and so you can't build an army that recreates the scene from Angels of Caliban where Dreadwing Destroyers descend from the sky on jump packs.

 

Here's the thing - I just don't see that as a valid complaint, personally. The Rites of War should create the flavour of the Legion (or aspect of the Legion) that they represent, in a way that is interesting and fun for both players (obviously some of them totally fail to do this - but that's another story entirely). If you want to recreate specific scenes in the lore, or play games based on forces depicted in specific scenes, that's totally possible by just agreeing it with your opponent and building armies that aren't constrained by the Rites of War or the force organisation chart or whatever. But the Rites have to be written with at least one eye on game balance. This means they're not going to allow stuff that is in the books. It's just the result of building a game system that, even if it's narrative driven, is still designed for a player base that largely play matched play games.

 

True true. It's impossible to adapt every scene from Black Library with a single ruleset. What annoys me is that the scene from the assault on Triplex is from Book 9. And it's supposed to be the scene where the Deathwing gets it's time to shine.

 

I think he wants troop veterans in pods. There seems to be a conflation between lore and table top.

 

Lore wise, every large capital ship in the crusade could teleport termies. Veterans could go in pods. Whatever. But the game balance is different.

 

As an example, you could easily build your list around combi veterans with pods and have basically no fat due to them being troops. Even raven guard have to fork out for two tactical squads at the very least before stuffing pods with special weapons.

 

And other than that, usually it's a special character whos giving out alternate troops to scoot around the rite restrictions; Zardu, golg, sigismund and various primarchs. The catch is that most of them require Warlord so you can start getting around too many restrictions or crafting combos that are too powerful.

 

This is yet another reason why I think the Deathwing should not be a RoW: it would allow the special characters to have a different flair when it comes to their Deathwing bonus.

• Corswain: enable vets, but not termies
• Holguin: enable termies, but not vets
• Lion: unlock both. 

I agree that while the Iron Circle doesn't teleport in the black books, they should be able to drop with Perty.

[Allart01]

I'm afraid we're not going to see massive changes; only fixes.

What I'd expect from the Deathwing fix (when and if it'll come) would be giving out the VPs for the central objective at the end of the game instead of every turn. Perhaps, if we're lucky, some VPs may even go to the Dark Angels of they hold the center.

Hoping for anything more than that is setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

I think the assault on Triplex could be recreated using Dreadclaws, Kharybdiss and Warmongers in an Unbroken/Pride list. That'd be up to 8 deepstriking units (+ Dreadpods) for that very specific mission, I think... After all, the Deathwing is never described as a drop assault force in Book 9.

Edited March 19, 2021 by The_Bloody

[Astartes Consul]

Am I naive for hoping that the normal Friday email from Forge World has some update / info on the FAQ?

[WITCHKING501]

Am I naive for hoping that the normal Friday email from Forge World has some update / info on the FAQ?

 

Yes, we haven't heard from forgeworld about the age of darkness since the release of the Contekar. The 22nd of Jan was the last we saw anything Heresy related other than this FAQ. 56 days have gone and this drop of an FAQ is all we have to show for it. The only thing we know that is coming for Heresy is these Word Bearer Preators which were shown on the 4th of April last year.

 

I get that there is a Pandemic, I understand that. but why are all the other specialist games getting love and support and their supposedly 3rd core game is left on life support.

[WrathOfTheLion]

 

Yes, we haven't heard from forgeworld about the age of darkness since the release of the Contekar. The 22nd of Jan was the last we saw anything Heresy related other than this FAQ. 56 days have gone and this drop of an FAQ is all we have to show for it. The only thing we know that is coming for Heresy is these Word Bearer Preators which were shown on the 4th of April last year.

 

I get that there is a Pandemic, I understand that. but why are all the other specialist games getting love and support and their supposedly 3rd core game is left on life support.

 

The disruptions in logistics never flew as an explanation to me. By October last year I was calling that out as insufficient, as it clearly was to anyone paying attention. Now it's incredibly obvious, where they've basically exhausted their release pipe for Specialist Games and there's just nothing, while HH has dropped by almost 100% at this point. How does an entire game system's releases just collapse in entirety?

 

The FAQ is fine, it's good to see some of the things like Corswain addressed. But I would like to have seen some tweaks to the Deathwing RoW to make it a little more palatable. It's never going to be good, but I just want it usable so that I can use it. Some tweaks to the scions and Hekatonystika points at least would have been nice too.

Edited March 19, 2021 by WrathOfTheLion

[Robbienw]

I reckon there is a huge resource drain for the Warhammer: Old World project that is affecting the the other specialist games output, in particular heresy stuff.

 

I find it odd there hasn't been any preview yet of a Corswain mini, Dark Angels are missing their non-primarch special character!

[ShadowCore67]

I reckon there is a huge resource drain for the Warhammer: Old World project that is affecting the the other specialist games output, in particular heresy stuff.

 

I find it odd there hasn't been any preview yet of a Corswain mini, Dark Angels are missing their non-primarch special character!

They're also missing Firewing and Excindio still. Although at this point I'm not keeping my fingers crossed.

[SkimaskMohawk]

But there isn't a decrease in other specialist stuff is there? Theyve released so many things for necromunda and the rest.

 

And @gattopardo the rites are very much gameplay focussed first and narrative second. There's a reason why every terminator can't deepstrike and why pods aren't available as dedicateds all the time. The game is fun because to make a list there's clear choices you have to make. Look at 8th edition 40k when you allow everything...

[WrathOfTheLion]

I haven't really seen a significant decrease in Specialist Games releases from FW. In fact, to me it looks like they've doubled or tripled the Necromunda releases for whatever reason.

[Astartes Consul]

Whenever we get talking about Heresy and comparing it to the other game systems, I wonder where is now sits in the GW structure?

 

When Andy Hoare took over Specialist Games in 2019, it was made clear that the plan was to move Heresy away from 'Forge World' in terms of its development as a game and into the SG studio. FW would just be about designing and manufacturing models, with rules writing for all of its releases dealt with by either the Main Studio or Specialist Games, depending on the system.

 

But did that actually happen in the end? 

 

 

 

Yes, we haven't heard from forgeworld about the age of darkness since the release of the Contekar. The 22nd of Jan was the last we saw anything Heresy related other than this FAQ. 56 days have gone and this drop of an FAQ is all we have to show for it. The only thing we know that is coming for Heresy is these Word Bearer Preators which were shown on the 4th of April last year.

 

I get that there is a Pandemic, I understand that. but why are all the other specialist games getting love and support and their supposedly 3rd core game is left on life support.

 

The disruptions in logistics never flew as an explanation to me. By October last year I was calling that out as insufficient, as it clearly was to anyone paying attention. Now it's incredibly obvious, where they've basically exhausted their release pipe for Specialist Games and there's just nothing, while HH has dropped by almost 100% at this point. How does an entire game system's releases just collapse in entirety?

 

The FAQ is fine, it's good to see some of the things like Corswain addressed. But I would like to have seen some tweaks to the Deathwing RoW to make it a little more palatable. It's never going to be good, but I just want it usable so that I can use it. Some tweaks to the scions and Hekatonystika points at least would have been nice too.

 

 

FWIW, I think Necromunda, Titanicus, Blood Bowl are operating on release schedules that were planned out years ago. There is a consistent logic to their releases, building on previous expansions / editions, that speaks to a longer term vision for each system. Heresy has always been a little more freeform than other GW systems when it comes to releases & schedules, and I think almost everything that was pre-planned at the time went out if the window when Alan Bligh died. 

 

It's also probably easier to keep producing the generally smaller updates in terms of new rules and models for these systems than it is to keep a steady stream of Heresy releases. 

 

Not saying that it isn't frustrating to watch other game systems with their consistent releases, or that the current situation with Heresy isn't a mess. Just trying to rationalise how it has happened.

[WITCHKING501]

 

 

FWIW, I think Necromunda, Titanicus, Blood Bowl are operating on release schedules that were planned out years ago. There is a consistent logic to their releases, building on previous expansions / editions, that speaks to a longer term vision for each system. Heresy has always been a little more freeform than other GW systems when it comes to releases & schedules, and I think almost everything that was pre-planned at the time went out if the window when Alan Bligh died. 

 

It's also probably easier to keep producing the generally smaller updates in terms of new rules and models for these systems than it is to keep a steady stream of Heresy releases. 

 

Not saying that it isn't frustrating to watch other game systems with their consistent releases, or that the current situation with Heresy isn't a mess. Just trying to rationalise how it has happened.

 

Alan Bligh sadly passed away almost 4 years ago now... the schedule for the release of heresy should of been brought back in check long before now. A whole game system shuddering to a halt is not to blame on 1 person passing away. Yes things would be different I would hope if he were still here. 

 

Back on to the FAQ itself, there seems to be a lot missing to what the community was asking for. There is no mention of any Nightlords things, no mention of if previous rites have been removed or still playable for example the Iron wing rites. Can I still use the old version or do I have to use the updated one?

 

A roadmap for where Heresy is going is sorely needed. What I am surprised at is why there wasnt a Heresy Weekender type reveal on a twitch stream this year. I think that would go a long way to easing some of this communities tension with the game.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I've been comparing releases to 2019, which was years after Alan Bligh passed away, and was actually a quite good year for releases. The halt has been after that. Whatever happened with Book 9, the game has just completely halted since then with no miniature or book releases anywhere in sight, and nothing new announced for a whole year now.

 

As well, there's all sorts of stuff they could be doing even with a delayed or limited release schedule. There are plenty of legions without Leviathans, Praetors and Contemptors that they could be doing filler releases with.

Edited March 19, 2021 by WrathOfTheLion

[Astartes Consul]

 

 

 

FWIW, I think Necromunda, Titanicus, Blood Bowl are operating on release schedules that were planned out years ago. There is a consistent logic to their releases, building on previous expansions / editions, that speaks to a longer term vision for each system. Heresy has always been a little more freeform than other GW systems when it comes to releases & schedules, and I think almost everything that was pre-planned at the time went out if the window when Alan Bligh died. 

 

It's also probably easier to keep producing the generally smaller updates in terms of new rules and models for these systems than it is to keep a steady stream of Heresy releases. 

 

Not saying that it isn't frustrating to watch other game systems with their consistent releases, or that the current situation with Heresy isn't a mess. Just trying to rationalise how it has happened.

 

Alan Bligh sadly passed away almost 4 years ago now... the schedule for the release of heresy should of been brought back in check long before now. A whole game system shuddering to a halt is not to blame on 1 person passing away. Yes things would be different I would hope if he were still here. 

 

Back on to the FAQ itself, there seems to be a lot missing to what the community was asking for. There is no mention of any Nightlords things, no mention of if previous rites have been removed or still playable for example the Iron wing rites. Can I still use the old version or do I have to use the updated one?

 

A roadmap for where Heresy is going is sorely needed. What I am surprised at is why there wasnt a Heresy Weekender type reveal on a twitch stream this year. I think that would go a long way to easing some of this communities tension with the game.

 

 

Like I said, not saying its a good or normal situation that the Heresy IP is in right now, but it is fair to say that for whatever reason, Heresy hasn't had the same 

 

 

As for the roadmap, I remember Anuj commenting on Crusade & Heresy last year, basically saying that the roadmap shown at the Weekender prior to Malevolence was still being used internally, but had been added to a lot since then.

 

Whatever else is happening right now, it shouldn't be that hard for something like this to be put out though - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/20/the-next-stages-of-the-horus-heresyfw-homepage-post-1/

[Astartes Consul]

I've been comparing releases to 2019, which was years after Alan Bligh passed away, and was actually a quite good year for releases. The halt has been after that. Whatever happened with Book 9, the game has just completely halted since then with no miniature or book releases anywhere in sight, and nothing new announced for a whole year now.

 

As well, there's all sorts of stuff they could be doing even with a delayed or limited release schedule. There are plenty of legions without Leviathans, Praetors and Contemptors that they could be doing filler releases with.

 

Yup, agree with this. Not only was 2019 a really good year for releases, but it ended with a strong message about what was coming in 2020 - see the link I just posted - even if that was heavily disrupted.

 

There is also the inconsistency that sometimes kits appear from nowhere. The Sabre, which was supposedly worked up by a new designer on their lunch breaks to learn new techniques, appeared from nowhere and was released very quickly. Meanwhile like you say, there are plenty of 'missing' kits all over the range. 

 

For whatever reason, the other Specialist Games systems have been able to keep to a much more planned release schedule over the last 6 - 12 months.