State of the Union (Heresy)

[Astartes Consul]

I'd get the Caestus as it's been OOP for years, but IWs might be the most popular Legion and multiple copies of medusas are a frequently taken choice.

 

Without seeing the generic units, hard to say. I'm far more interested in the generic list than the Legion special units.

 

Begging someone to just leak the table of contents, tbh

[Joe]

If they are canning them, why would they be mentioned in the IW Rite of War?

 

I'm trying to catch up on all the leaks so please ignore me if they aren't in it!

 

No, you're right - completely clocked the wrong thing there! 

 

... particularly bad as I was staring at the Ironfire rules earlier as well.

[Mango Polo]

 

 

lol, what nonsense is this. There is no way they are just gonna remove rules for official models many have bought. There are even rules in that documents for guns, which are kinda dissapointing .

sorry to bear the news Frater,

 

but that has never been the case with GW, things have regularly been cut between editions

 

I admit I myself am sad about Caestus/Dreads, but all the rumours do quite point out that despite being iconic, they're not present in the test documents

 

the flamestorm cannon is for the predator, so it would seem

 

there is an outside chance they have hoodwinked all the playtesters and leakers of course, but I have my doubts of GW pulling off even the smallest of subterfuges

 

 

 

 

Or in fact all if these rules are made up nonsense. Wait till may I say.

 

Ah yes, the fabled fake documents that are 485 pages long and highly edited. Fake news, that's a Tuesday on Faeit 212.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Mango Polo

[Stix]

Is anyone else super disappointed in the Blood Angel stuff? World Eaters get chainaxes for free which essentially do what our trait does at all times and then they get their own legion trait on top of it. The blade of perdition stuff is cool but not exactly a buff I would say. And the rites of war are alright but not exactly stellar.

 

Unless they are planning on reworking the legion trait I don’t see myself bringing them out very much, my main opponent is World Eaters and his army will just do what I do but much better in every single way as of now.

 

Iron Hands faired better but the increase points to immortals, the limiting factor of bitter duty and the kick in the balls to company of bitter iron by removing hatred from all non-immortals has left a sour taste in my mouth. The vehicle upgrade for 50 points would have been great on a dread but is kinda lame on a tank. The warlord traits are also pretty lacklustre, a random d6 swing on death is lame and unreliable. the other ignoring negative effects one is okay but the inability to use movement reactions is not worth it. Overall, when compared to the other legions, they just seem a little bland to me.

 

Maybe I am overreacting on both accounts but I just had such high hopes for this edition as a long time veteran and so far I feel pretty disappointed in a bunch of what we are seeing. Hoping I am wrong.

 

I will say I am excited for Strength 14 Forgebreaker swings from Ferrus with exoshock 3 to auto penetrate some spartans and send them all the way to mars for repairs.

Where have you seen those changes to CoBI and what Bitter Duty does? Edited March 31, 2022 by Stix

[Fallen11]

 

 

 

lol, what nonsense is this. There is no way they are just gonna remove rules for official models many have bought. There are even rules in that documents for guns, which are kinda dissapointing .

sorry to bear the news Frater,

 

but that has never been the case with GW, things have regularly been cut between editions

 

I admit I myself am sad about Caestus/Dreads, but all the rumours do quite point out that despite being iconic, they're not present in the test documents

 

the flamestorm cannon is for the predator, so it would seem

 

there is an outside chance they have hoodwinked all the playtesters and leakers of course, but I have my doubts of GW pulling off even the smallest of subterfuges

 

 

 

 

Or in fact all if these rules are made up nonsense. Wait till may I say.

 

Ah yes, the fabled fake documents that are 485 pages long and highly edited. Fake news, that's a Tuesday on Faeit 212.

 

can we see them? :p

[Gorgoff]

 

 

 

 

lol, what nonsense is this. There is no way they are just gonna remove rules for official models many have bought. There are even rules in that documents for guns, which are kinda dissapointing .

sorry to bear the news Frater,

 

but that has never been the case with GW, things have regularly been cut between editions

 

I admit I myself am sad about Caestus/Dreads, but all the rumours do quite point out that despite being iconic, they're not present in the test documents

 

the flamestorm cannon is for the predator, so it would seem

 

there is an outside chance they have hoodwinked all the playtesters and leakers of course, but I have my doubts of GW pulling off even the smallest of subterfuges

 

 

 

Or in fact all if these rules are made up nonsense. Wait till may I say.

Ah yes, the fabled fake documents that are 485 pages long and highly edited. Fake news, that's a Tuesday on Faeit 212.

Ah, your first time.

Some Teoll made up a whole 6 (?) edition 40k back in the day and we ALL fell for it. It was very sophisticated. Some bigger you tube channels even made test battlereports with it and in the end it was complete BS.

I don't think we have this here, but I just point out that it is a little to early to cry a river about this or that.

We have to see the whole picture and we have to make some test runs.

PS: Can we see the 485 pages of rules? :)

Edited March 31, 2022 by Gorgoff

[SkimaskMohawk]

@gorgoff a lot of the people with the full thing seem to be holding it close to the chest because they're afraid of exposing their source.

 

Pretty sure a couple of people on here have the full thing, considering the bonus content that popped up in the fists tactica section lol.

[Marshal Rohr]

I wonder if the units from the Campaign packs will be day one DLC

[Runefyre]

 

 

 

In other news, Grey Slayers are now their own unit. The tactical role of the old unit has been given to the new Grey Stalkers:

 

 

Wolfbros, what do you think of this?

 

 

Unless I'm missing something, there is no meaningful difference between stalker and slayer packs, not sure why they couldn't just stay the same unit with the optional loadouts built into the wargear options.

 

Having seen the other few VIth legion leaks I've got mixed feelings. Varagyr look more promising with a price drop and changes to their DT requirements (not longer requiring 6 or more models to have a spartan DT). Deathsworn appear to be untouched unless their abilities have received tweaks, their dataslate is identical to Inferno.

 

Of the 3 warlord traits there's only 1 that's any good imo, I am a little sad to lose my full list of unique warlord traits. Couldn't keep that I guess, despite DA still getting 6 RoW lol.

 

Pale Hunters RoW is much improved, actually dependable outflank finally. The Bloodied claw is much worse, I'm not sure how to justify a whole RoW on a single underwhelming (and one-use) ability. 

 

Very curious if Russ will get leaked at some point, I really hope they keep him largely as he was. I loved his Inferno dataslate.

 

I'm not making any final judgments until the rules are in my hands, but I'm not exactly hyped. Just hoping for a functional ruleset. Also fingers crossed that they don't screw over my collection, I don't want to have to reconvert models and units I've spent hours and hours on planning loadouts and unit compositions. 

 

Another side to this discussion is the lore that will arrive with the new edition, and I have to say I hope they mostly copy/paste from the Black Books. I loved everything written for the Wolves in Inferno, and I hope they don't mess things up on that front.

[Brother Tholath]

From little I saw, the differences for the Stalkers and Slayers and just the loadouts. Stalkers get the Grey Hunter stuff (as it were) while the Slayers are more like Blood Claws and also get the Fenrisian Axe

[Darkwrath121]

Very curious if Russ will get leaked at some point, I really hope they keep him largely as he was. I loved his Inferno dataslate.

 

I'm not making any final judgments until the rules are in my hands, but I'm not exactly hyped. Just hoping for a functional ruleset. Also fingers crossed that they don't screw over my collection, I don't want to have to reconvert models and units I've spent hours and hours on planning loadouts and unit compositions.

 

Sword of balenight is now just a paragon blade with Murderous Ruin (the same Ld rule as Lion's chainsword currently), and while he gained +1S, he's down to WS8 along with all the formerly WS9 primarchs. That and his armour is only -1 to hit on the charge. Hmmm. Bit of a hit.

 

Sire is +1S on the charge for LA:SW, and he can give armywide +1" movement once per game

Edited March 31, 2022 by Darkwrath121

[Brother Tholath]

Where did you see that about Russ?

[Darkwrath121]

Where did you see that about Russ?

There's a video of the SW pages floating around.

 

(Theoretically)

 

On side note. Geri being WS7 is hilarious to me.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Darkwrath121

[dicebod]

I wonder if the units from the Campaign packs will be day one DLC

 

My prediction/hope is that they just update the PDFs to align with the new ruleset.

[Beerhammer]

I have not been able to find anything on the Night Lords, can some one link me the page or the information PLEASE?!?!

[The Scorpion]

 

 

 

 

 

In other news, Grey Slayers are now their own unit. The tactical role of the old unit has been given to the new Grey Stalkers:

 

 

Wolfbros, what do you think of this?

 

Unless I'm missing something, there is no meaningful difference between stalker and slayer packs, not sure why they couldn't just stay the same unit with the optional loadouts built into the wargear options.

 

Having seen the other few VIth legion leaks I've got mixed feelings. Varagyr look more promising with a price drop and changes to their DT requirements (not longer requiring 6 or more models to have a spartan DT). Deathsworn appear to be untouched unless their abilities have received tweaks, their dataslate is identical to Inferno.

 

Of the 3 warlord traits there's only 1 that's any good imo, I am a little sad to lose my full list of unique warlord traits. Couldn't keep that I guess, despite DA still getting 6 RoW lol.

 

Pale Hunters RoW is much improved, actually dependable outflank finally. The Bloodied claw is much worse, I'm not sure how to justify a whole RoW on a single underwhelming (and one-use) ability.

 

Very curious if Russ will get leaked at some point, I really hope they keep him largely as he was. I loved his Inferno dataslate.

 

I'm not making any final judgments until the rules are in my hands, but I'm not exactly hyped. Just hoping for a functional ruleset. Also fingers crossed that they don't screw over my collection, I don't want to have to reconvert models and units I've spent hours and hours on planning loadouts and unit compositions.

 

Another side to this discussion is the lore that will arrive with the new edition, and I have to say I hope they mostly copy/paste from the Black Books. I loved everything written for the Wolves in Inferno, and I hope they don't mess things up on that front.

What's the source of your wolf leaks?

[The Scorpion]

I have not been able to find anything on the Night Lords, can some one link me the page or the information PLEASE?!?!

Phase 1 or 2 Traitor leak, don't know which https://imgur.com/a/KHnbjdX

 

I also don't know if the link works still. I hope it does

[Beerhammer]

 

I have not been able to find anything on the Night Lords, can some one link me the page or the information PLEASE?!?!

Phase 1 or 2 Traitor leak, don't know which https://imgur.com/a/KHnbjdX

 

I also don't know if the link works still. I hope it does

 

 

THANK YOU, Wow, I like the rules for Sevatar, but did not see the new rule for the Night Raptors (the Jump Pack while moving and charging). I might have missed something.

[The Scorpion]

Phase 1 leaks are... well, phase 1. Stuff is expected to be missing or make no sense.

 

Don't focus on the details, and just ask yourself if you like the thematic upon which the rules are being built.

[Armillion]

 

Err, where are the basilisk stats on that chart? I just bought several.

 

As far as I understand Legiones Astartes are losing Basilisks and Medusas.

 

Boooo if this is true.  Especially since they are still on sale.

 

Is the Achilles still around? (at this rate probably not...)

[Noserenda]

 

Ooof, artillery being largely ineffective against marines? And shellshock not even being present on most of them? Sounds like some pretty "bold" design choices right there...

 

Agreed big templates could be a problem, but i dont think it was vindicators and arty that were the problem, more the giant flamers and S:D deletion blasts from super heavies.

The big change was a push towards more infantry being present on the board and, as such, Artillery and Big Templates got hit the hardest since removing fistfuls of marines from 1 S10 AP2 7" blast (aka the Typhon) was not really fun.

 

And all it cost was the verisimilitude of artillery being dangerous? As mentioned from the predator meltas, and the laser weapons its not even like they are being consistent with that change. Typhons werent fun sure, but thats largely because its a ridiculous gun on an AV14 flare shielded, ceramite chassis that laughed off 90% of incoming fire, something that the majority of artillery vehicles in particular dont have.

 

Well, that and the apparently widening gulf between basic and elite infantry, who generally deserve transports to move em, like a plastic spartan, means i very much doubt we will see more infantry on the board this edition.

 

 

Ooof some hard nerfs for Blood Angels there. Personally im not a big fan of defining what model of armour a given terminator unit is using, unless, like Gorgons, its a big part of what the unit is. Feels driven purely my commercial reasons.

You know that 3/4 of all special Terminators are locked into their Armour variant already and only a few can choose?

 

Yes and ive been calling it :cuss since they started rolling it out in the red books, because it is.

 

Having fully different statlines is a point, but its one very easily fixed with a bit of extra text, and the datasheets are hardly cramped so far :D  

 

lol, what nonsense is this. There is no way they are just gonna remove rules for official models many have bought. There are even rules in that documents for guns, which are kinda dissapointing .

Ahahahahaaaaa, even when GW promised no squatting FW has been all over doing exactly that, i wouldnt expect anything they sell to remain supported or in production. Basilisks and Medusas got mentioned in early playtest docs but thats no guarantee if someone wants to swing the axe on them, one thing thats become super clear is there is no philosophy of guaranteeing backwards compatibility in this edition.

[Slips]

 

>Combatant Slain
If a Character involved in a Challenge is removed as a casualty, each excess Wound inflicted by the victor is counted toward the Assault result, but is not allocated to any other model. If the winning Character model has any remaining Attacks in the same or later Initiative steps, then these are resolved against the slain Character's WS and Toughness, but are only counted for the purposes of winning combat and are not Allocate to any other models. When one of the combatants in a Challenge is slain, regardless of which Initiative step it is, the Challenge is still considered to be ongoing until the end of the Phase for the purposes of Outside Forces.

Outside Forces
Whilst the Challenge is ongoing, other models locked in the combat can only Allocate Wounds to the models involved in the Challenge if all other enemy models (if any) that are locked in that combat have been removed as casualties.

 

An apparent change to how challenges work now; @skimask I guess this is a reason as to why you might want to accept a challenge from Sigismund if you're not already being forced to for whatever reason.

[Rejects of Anvilus]

So while I was generally agnostic about many of the changes so far, I just had a quick look at the 4K Stone Gauntlet Imperial Fist army I am just finishing painting to see how al the rumours would affect it if true, and now I am feeling quite glum. Changes that may be coming are:

 

Boxnaught with flamestorm is potentially gone.

Indomnitus terminators are potentially gone.

Caestus is potentially gone

Sicaran Arcus modeled without hatches as I didn’t want sponsons, now needs sponsons.

I had two 10 man breacher squads and a 15 man Warder squad for SG, now I need two Warder squads.

Typhon 7 inch template can just stay at home.
Plasma support squad not quite as effective. 

 

Soi think ever game with this army is going to start with me saying the boxnaught counts as a contemptor, the Indomnitus count as Tartaros, the Caestus counts as a StormEagle, the Sicaran has invisible sponsons, and the breachers count as warders. Nice and simple…

[Slips]

So while I was generally agnostic about many of the changes so far, I just had a quick look at the 4K Stone Gauntlet Imperial Fist army I am just finishing painting to see how al the rumours would affect it if true, and now I am feeling quite glum. Changes that may be coming are:

 

Boxnaught with flamestorm is potentially gone.

Indomnitus terminators are potentially gone.

Caestus is potentially gone

Sicaran Arcus modeled without hatches as I didn’t want sponsons, now needs sponsons.

I had two 10 man breacher squads and a 15 man Warder squad for SG, now I need two Warder squads.

Typhon 7 inch template can just stay at home.

Plasma support squad not quite as effective. 

 

Soi think ever game with this army is going to start with me saying the boxnaught counts as a contemptor, the Indomnitus count as Tartaros, the Caestus counts as a StormEagle, the Sicaran has invisible sponsons, and the breachers count as warders. Nice and simple…

Stone Gauntlet can still be filled by 2x Breacher squads as troops, you aren't forced into taking Warders.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

>Combatant Slain

If a Character involved in a Challenge is removed as a casualty, each excess Wound inflicted by the victor is counted toward the Assault result, but is not allocated to any other model. If the winning Character model has any remaining Attacks in the same or later Initiative steps, then these are resolved against the slain Character's WS and Toughness, but are only counted for the purposes of winning combat and are not Allocate to any other models. When one of the combatants in a Challenge is slain, regardless of which Initiative step it is, the Challenge is still considered to be ongoing until the end of the Phase for the purposes of Outside Forces.

 

Outside Forces

Whilst the Challenge is ongoing, other models locked in the combat can only Allocate Wounds to the models involved in the Challenge if all other enemy models (if any) that are locked in that combat have been removed as casualties.

An apparent change to how challenges work now; @skimask I guess this is a reason as to why you might want to accept a challenge from Sigismund if you're not already being forced to for whatever reason.

No?

 

Like it helps challenges have a point and went back to that fantasy overkill mechanic I mentioned.

 

But if anything, it makes you less likely to accept a challenge from Sigismund. Since each excess wound is counted for combat res and Sigismund has instant death, he can generate up to 15 wounds of combat res against a praetor, while forcing invul rerolls and possibly proccing his warlord trait. Unless you're rolling with a bodyguard of 3 wound models, you're basically guaranteeing a lost combat.

 

Maybe there was more to the challenge stuff you forgot to copy?