State of the Union (Heresy)

[Brofist]

I mean ya, the pod stuff is still for shooting units, or maybe anchoring your deepstrike assault as they can't mishap with the scatter (throwback to the homing beacon of 5th).

 

And even the basic troops aren't too lethal coming out of reserves; you're looking at weight of attacks with the odd power weapon. But some legions can do some very nasty things out of reserve. Blood angels, night lords and world eaters can just juice their jump units up with better offence, and all of them have elite jump units. Fists, sons of horus and night lords get deepstriking terminators (and more for fists). Raven guard, night lords, Emperor's children, wolves, and scars can get a lot of outflankers with some serious weapons. I guess I forgot the word bearers who get in on the deepstrike action too, and the alpha legion that can just steal the units they need lol.

 

Really, unless you're playing iron warriors, iron hands, Ultramarines, or salamanders you can get in on the reserves action with juicy units.

Iron Hands can outflank tanks!

[Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch]

Do dreads have the vehicle type with the new rules? Because if they do technically I think they can outflank as well with Head of the Gorgon (as the Rite specifies all Vehicles in the detachment).

[bushman101]

Can we discuss the Javelin since it changed quite a bit?

It has a Toughness value and armor save instead of being a vehicle. It also got more expensive.

People seem to like them better, but I'm not so sure. Thoughts?

Edited April 7, 2022 by bushman101

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

I mean ya, the pod stuff is still for shooting units, or maybe anchoring your deepstrike assault as they can't mishap with the scatter (throwback to the homing beacon of 5th).

 

And even the basic troops aren't too lethal coming out of reserves; you're looking at weight of attacks with the odd power weapon. But some legions can do some very nasty things out of reserve. Blood angels, night lords and world eaters can just juice their jump units up with better offence, and all of them have elite jump units. Fists, sons of horus and night lords get deepstriking terminators (and more for fists). Raven guard, night lords, Emperor's children, wolves, and scars can get a lot of outflankers with some serious weapons. I guess I forgot the word bearers who get in on the deepstrike action too, and the alpha legion that can just steal the units they need lol.

 

Really, unless you're playing iron warriors, iron hands, Ultramarines, or salamanders you can get in on the reserves action with juicy units.

Iron Hands can outflank tanks!

 

 

Unfortunately you can't disembark+charge evenw with assault vehicles, so you dont get quite to play quite the same game as the melee legions lol.

 

Do dreads have the vehicle type with the new rules? Because if they do technically I think they can outflank as well with Head of the Gorgon (as the Rite specifies all Vehicles in the detachment).

 

They're not.

[Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch]

Darn. Oh well, I suppose I'll just have to get proper tanks then.

[Brofist]

Good odds it'll be changed in the revisions after what we've read

[depthcharge12]

Can we discuss the Javelin since it changed quite a bit?

It has a Toughness value and armor save instead of being a vehicle. It also got more expensive.

People seem to like them better, but I'm not so sure. Thoughts?

For 100 points, you get a T6 4W 3+ save platform that can fire 4 krak missiles and a multi melta from outflank.

 

Oh and the dang thing moves 14” lol

 

 

Going up in points was probably a good thing because they were really good in 1.0, and I think there are some hidden benefits going to T6 and a save…especially when there’s not a ton of AP3 or AP2 like there was in 1.0.

 

300 points for 3 seems like a pretty good chunk of a list, but you are getting a pretty good return for a T2 strike. Though it might struggle against dreads.

[bushman101]

 

Can we discuss the Javelin since it changed quite a bit?

It has a Toughness value and armor save instead of being a vehicle. It also got more expensive.

People seem to like them better, but I'm not so sure. Thoughts?

For 100 points, you get a T6 4W 3+ save platform that can fire 4 krak missiles and a multi melta from outflank.

Oh and the dang thing moves 14” lol

Going up in points was probably a good thing because they were really good in 1.0, and I think there are some hidden benefits going to T6 and a save…especially when there’s not a ton of AP3 or AP2 like there was in 1.0.

300 points for 3 seems like a pretty good chunk of a list, but you are getting a pretty good return for a T2 strike. Though it might struggle against dreads.

I agree with all your points. A few things on my mind though....

- T6 means it can technically die to bolters (even if unlikely) . Previously, you needed back arc

- 14" movement is awesome, but not sure how relevant it is. Most of the weapons you can put on it have decent firing ranges

- With a naked load out, it went up 5 meltabombs worth of points. It seems you need to dedicate more of your list to fit them in

 

Personally, I had been taking them as cheap 'distraction Carnifexes' and point fillers. Maybe my issue is them losing that role on the field

Edited April 8, 2022 by bushman101

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

I'm quite looking forward to the fact that the Javelin can now take volkite culverins, hopefully meaning a potential plastic kit would include that loadout - not sure if it's the best way to outfit it, but you're putting out a decent amount of shots that can glance low armour values with the manoeuvrability to get around the back of vehicles, as well as good infantry killing firepower

 

Plus I think they'll look extremely cool 

[Cris R]

 

 

Can we discuss the Javelin since it changed quite a bit?

It has a Toughness value and armor save instead of being a vehicle. It also got more expensive.

People seem to like them better, but I'm not so sure. Thoughts?

For 100 points, you get a T6 4W 3+ save platform that can fire 4 krak missiles and a multi melta from outflank.

Oh and the dang thing moves 14” lol

Going up in points was probably a good thing because they were really good in 1.0, and I think there are some hidden benefits going to T6 and a save…especially when there’s not a ton of AP3 or AP2 like there was in 1.0.

300 points for 3 seems like a pretty good chunk of a list, but you are getting a pretty good return for a T2 strike. Though it might struggle against dreads.

I agree with all your points. A few things on my mind though....

- T6 means it can technically die to bolters (even if unlikely) . Previously, you needed back arc

- 14" movement is awesome, but not sure how relevant it is. Most of the weapons you can put on it have decent firing ranges

- With a naked load out, it went up 5 meltabombs worth of points. It seems you need to dedicate more of your list to fit them in

 

Personally, I had been taking them as cheap 'distraction Carnifexes' and point fillers. Maybe my issue is them losing that role on the field

That movement is going to matter with helping to avoid charges that will pop at different points with reactions and the assault phase. As for the points issue, it’s a matter of whether the rest of your list dropped in prices. My DoR list gained 150 points because my Assault Marines can’t take melta bombs, so you need to take into account the entire context of your list to assess whether your approach to your games has become more or less expensive.

[corvus.calvariam]

I'm quite looking forward to the fact that the Javelin can now take volkite culverins, hopefully meaning a potential plastic kit would include that loadout - not sure if it's the best way to outfit it, but you're putting out a decent amount of shots that can glance low armour values with the manoeuvrability to get around the back of vehicles, as well as good infantry killing firepower

 

Plus I think they'll look extremely cool

On page 273 of the leaked Loyalist Legion book there is a picture of a Blood Angels Predator model with different tracks and Volkite sponsons! It has "mock up" plastered on it, but hopefully this means that the Predator kit will come with it, and will be compatible with the Javelins even if they don't get a new kit themselves with that option.

Edited April 8, 2022 by raeho

[wildweasel]

Armored Spearhead here I come!

[SkimaskMohawk]

Can we discuss the Javelin since it changed quite a bit?

It has a Toughness value and armor save instead of being a vehicle. It also got more expensive.

People seem to like them better, but I'm not so sure. Thoughts?

 

I'm personally unsure how people like the new ones better, at least in the context of its previous role. The strength of the old one was as a very cheap, very slot efficient, very reliable gunship. It was largely immune to small arms fire, it could jink to always claim cover, it was frustrating to bring down in melee, and could generally be used as a spoiler to contest objectives with its huge movement.

 

The base loadout went up from 55 to 80, and the meta version went from 75 to 100. 

 

For that price you now:

-can move 14" instead of 12". But can't go further, losing the 36" flat out.

-lose strafing run.

-can charge and are able to fight in melee, but are stuck in combat 1/3 of the time. And are hit more easily. 

-are more durable against quality weapons, less durable against small arms.

-can reroll your pseudo FNP and don't need to forfeit shooting to get it. But you lose all access to cover, and the Damage Reduction is locked behind very limited resources; msu javelins cant all activate it if needed.

 

They're pretty objectively worse. Not that's necessarily bad for balance, as the old ones were hilariously too strong. But still, confused how people like the new datasheet more; probably the people who's vehicles exclusively exploded. 

 

Kinda weird how they don't have the bulky rule too. I'd assume that's being added later. It's also unclear how antigrav works when charging, as jump packs explicitly the unit ignores terrain for Moving and Charging;  antigrav says movement. Kind of important, since they don't have frag grenades lol. 

[The Scorpion]

Gotta have room for all those bayonets!

Chainbayonets should've been an upgrade, imho

[Brofist]

Chainbayonets not being an option for shotguns or combi weapons is a big miss imo

[D3L]

heads up

Cataphractii
Tartaros 
MkIV

no longer LCTB 

and gone now from webstore

 

[BitsHammer]

heads up

 

Cataphractii

Tartaros 

MkIV

 

no longer LCTB 

 

and gone now from webstore

 

 

I fully assume those are just getting reboxed.

[D3L]

 

heads up

 

Cataphractii

Tartaros 

MkIV

 

no longer LCTB 

 

and gone now from webstore

 

 

I fully assume those are just getting reboxed.

 

let's hope eh?

 

when they normally do that they list it as Temporary Unavailable

[Elzender]

Not if they have to change the product code, which if they go back to being branded as HH plastics with new packaging, they will likely have to do.

[TrawlingCleaner]

I can't speak to Tartaros or MK4 boxes but:

The MK3 kit already has the new HH box style

The Cataphractii kit was still in the "Made to Order" White box with sticker.

 

These were ordered 3 weeks ago, the MK3 kit is still on the webstore so I would imagine that these kits are being reboxed and have a new product code

[D3L]

Not if they have to change the product code, which if they go back to being branded as HH plastics with new packaging, they will likely have to do.

nice!

[Bung]

Assuming the rules around them don't change, what are people's thoughts on Combi-Weapons in 2.0?

 

Does the system of two different classifications work? Which weapons do you think will be the best/most common?

You already had this with the FaQ for Combi Volkites / Grenade Launchers.

 

I fueldwd a 10 men Vet Squad with Power Mauls and Combi Volkites with a Forge Lord for Red Grenades and it worked ok If you go for alot of armoursaves.

[Mogsam]

I did that unit but used serpentas instead of combi volkite, saved a 50% the cost of the guns. Didn't do the forge lord tho.

 

Did anyone see the WB rules for 2.0? I remember seeing them but can't remember if they've still got the extra character tax. There's a fairly cool Brethren of Iron + Daemons option out there.

[Gorgoff]

I did that unit but used serpentas instead of combi volkite, saved a 50% the cost of the guns. Didn't do the forge lord tho.

 

Did anyone see the WB rules for 2.0? I remember seeing them but can't remember if they've still got the extra character tax. There's a fairly cool Brethren of Iron + Daemons option out there.

Three dice for leadership test, no tax.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

I did that unit but used serpentas instead of combi volkite, saved a 50% the cost of the guns. Didn't do the forge lord tho.

 

Did anyone see the WB rules for 2.0? I remember seeing them but can't remember if they've still got the extra character tax. There's a fairly cool Brethren of Iron + Daemons option out there.

Three dice for leadership test, no tax.

It's actually any double on a roll for a LD test is insane heroism. They're rather hard to affect with LD stuff, and there's a lot of it now in 2nd.

 

No base character tax (every legion lost its core downside).