State of the Union (Heresy)

[WrathOfTheLion]

The helmetless crest would work pretty well for a Word Bearers Consul I'd think.

[Mogsam]

On a different note, I appreciate seeing more Blanche in the HH with that helmetless crest.

I've never really seen the appeal of blanche. It's really off-putting when they use him as inspiration with busy models.

[BitsHammer]

 

On a different note, I appreciate seeing more Blanche in the HH with that helmetless crest.

I've never really seen the appeal of blanche. It's really off-putting when they use him as inspiration with busy models.

A lot of his work is about invoking a feeling which he does well. Plus he's a lot braver than a lot of artists when it comes to inventing new things for a fantasy setting.

 

Not everything he's done makes for great minis, but for me it often generates a feeling of awe amd wonder about what kind of world his creations live in compared to the one I live in.

[No Foes Remain]

 

On a different note, I appreciate seeing more Blanche in the HH with that helmetless crest.

I've never really seen the appeal of blanche. It's really off-putting when they use him as inspiration with busy models.

 

I agree, it's the same with the old Rogue Trader stuff. People hold that to such a high regard because it was first, but it wasn't even good background. Almost all of it was gutted and changed when 2nd Ed came around and formed the 40k as we know it now. But because people look back on it, and the Blanche style, because it was what prompted 40k GW are emulating the old stuff to flog to us.

 

Having reflected on it with some talking to a mate at work who also collects 30k and 40k, I don't think I'm going to get the box set now as all I'd really want from it would be the Contemptor and the Spartan. I didn't really mind that the Mk6 will be taller as there are ways to make the mk3/4 look taller with some greenstuff, yes the sprues being laidout similar to the Primaris and CSM is also off putting but the bad design on the supposedly generic Praetors has killed it for me. It's a shame as I was quite looking forward to it but with GW's prices as they are now factoring in as well it would be cheaper for me to get the Spartan and Contemptor when the release them seperate (better not be that several month waiting period like the other boxed releases, but it probably will).

[Gorgoff]

 

On a different note, I appreciate seeing more Blanche in the HH with that helmetless crest.

I've never really seen the appeal of blanche. It's really off-putting when they use him as inspiration with busy models.

Me neither. HH has a unique technical and industrial look for me. Blanchets stuff look like painted with finger colours and has a very organic look to it. I don't like any picture he made and no model which is build in this style. In fact I think his work is terrible style wise and screams 40k for me. Those preators Show exactly what I hate about it. HUUUUGE weapons, organic looking bonding studs and that ridiculous cap the IF wears reminds me of circus women on horses.

[Bung]

You're missing the point I was trying to make.

 

Not that narrative-style, asymmetry is bad. But it has to be done properly for everyone participating to enjoy it.

 

Just like you go into DnD and historicals knowing that the game isn't going to be "fair", and is driven by a narrative (or historical) premise, narrative 40k relies on that mutual understanding from the get go. It's like having a mid-Crusade army in 9th in a matched pickup game.

 

The reason points and standard missions ("fair" systems) exist is basically short form of the narrative agreement for strangers. Both sides know what they're signing up for and can reasonably expect. Tournaments add the caveat of "it's a measurement of skill at winning the game" to that short form.

 

You can't have that agreement system surprisingly undermined; it creates frustration. It's like if you set up a narrative campaign and someone just brought a tournament army and refused to really go along with the themes of the campaign. Their opponents would get very frustrated. That's basically Jervis mocking people who want consistent missions in tournament round.

 

He doesn't like fair systems. He doesn't care to understand why they exist. Age of Sigmar didn't have any fair systems on release, it included lots of RPG elements. Its design was headed by Jervis. It failed.

 

I have met those problems you describe with 40k in privat settings too, so Heresy narrative events arent alone with that. 

So you should blame that only on the organizer of the event.

 

And for me Jervis Johnson isnt a good game designer either, my thought is that he gor the job as lead designer cause he is the only senior one that stayed at the company, the really good ones jumped ship years ago Andy Chambers, Pete Haines, Alessio Cattore etc. 

[Petitioner's City]

I did like Blanche as young un, especially some of his late 90s work, but didn't enjoy his drawings so much or his desaturated colours and (to me) "intentionally ugly" work of the 1980s. I preferred his more history painting style that graced certain covers of when I came into the hobby, but a key thing about Blanche is he is very accomplished and like many graphic artist-painters, works across styles and indeed media. When I became a professional art historian and began to see how historically dense his work his, especially the images of his - the scratchy drawings, the desaturated colour palettes, the fertility and historical allusiveness of it all - overall came to really enjoy the diversity of his work more and more.

Some great catalogues are here, and discussion of the idea of it being "baroque" - although I'd argue there is a touch of the fifteenth and sixteenth century to his work, always, and a play with even earlier illumination ideas too, and there's other style terms too we can draw on to categorise him.

Anyway, here are some wonderful online exhibition posts:

https://www.geek-art.net/en/the-not-so-gothic-art-of-john-blanche/

http://crowsandrobins.blogspot.com/2019/05/fantasy-visuals-john-blanche-part-i-70s.html?m=1

https://crowsandrobins.blogspot.com/2019/12/fantasy-visuals-john-blanche-part-ii-90s.html?m=1

http://crowsandrobins.blogspot.com/2020/07/fantasy-visuals-john-blanche-part-iii.html?m=1

http://crowsandrobins.blogspot.com/2021/01/fantasy-visuals-john-blanche-part-iv-10s.html?m=1

I think a key point also is that there is no "one" heresy style, as much as we try to suggest there is one - there are many styles, in part due to the tremendous creativity diverse artists bring to the setting, be it cover artists like Neil Roberts, or the players and modellers who come from a thousand different impulses, or the work of GW. Each have brought so much diversity to the heresy, which makes sense, it's a galaxy of diversity after all Not to sockpuppet, but to return to some of the creators of the game/heresy - an eye opening wee experience I had was ADB's tale of four (Edit: five!) gamers years ago (sadly no longer on his blog), with John French, Eddie Eccles (, Edit: Ead Brown) and the late Alan Bligh. That Eddie's ribald and indeed blanchian - and "40k" - fallen could sit amongst more conventional heresy minis and that be ok with three key heresy peeps - that kind of said it all to me. There was something liberating in seeing that.

 

Edit - found those original posts by Alan, on Goodreads and rss of all places!

 

https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/3581737-a-tale-of-five-heretics

 

https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/3971659-a-tale-of-five-heretics-red-team-update-1

 

https://dembski2.rssing.com/chan-5021875/all_p2.html

Edited April 16, 2022 by Petitioner's City

[BitsHammer]

Very nice coverage of Blanche's work as well as some great examples of how wide his style can be. The 3rd ed Black Templars image is still one of the things that lives in my brain for what 40k is, and the BFG image is still one of the defining images of the setting.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Fulkes

[Gorgoff]

I too have to admit that I wasn't aware of how much and how diverse he has painted. The 2ed Sororitas codex cover art is incredible. I have that model as well. Wonderful stuff.

[BitsHammer]

I'd highly suggest that if you can find a copy of them the Visions of the Heresy books are worth a look through. Not only does Blanche's work show up quite a lot, but they have a lot of different artist's works in there which can be inspiring for trying to work out your own personal vision of the Heresy on the tabletop.

[Marshal Mittens]

The BT 3e cover (and now 9e LE cover) is just amazing art.

[Noserenda]

This is what i try to get across all the time, 30k is much broader than any one vision of the imagery, or how to play, or what the "spirit of the game" is and they are all perfectly valid, this is how GW has always built its universes and its why the gatekeepers and rivet counters are always so foolish.

I dont like everything Blanche has done but his influence on Warhammer is undeniable, even when it wasnt him doing the work he was Art director through all the formative phases of all the games.

Id also argue Jervis Johnson is a great designer (even if id say points are needed) his body of work is long and includes some of the best work GW ever put out over the years, they are typically working in teams, which is handy for keeping things on an even keel.


 

I'd highly suggest that if you can find a copy of them the Visions of the Heresy books are worth a look through. Not only does Blanche's work show up quite a lot, but they have a lot of different artist's works in there which can be inspiring for trying to work out your own personal vision of the Heresy on the tabletop.

I think its in the Warhammer+ vault? Not checked as the interface enraged me previously :D 

[painting.for.my.sanity]

I think its in the Warhammer+ vault? Not checked as the interface enraged me previously :D

It is indeed in the Vault. I've not been able to open it successfully though - downloads fully then errors out. Anyone else having that issue?

[Harrowmaster]

The thing about Blanche for me is that his work doesn't quite fit with HH (except maybe Word Bearers). Some of it is great but for me it feels better suited to the likes of inquisitor; nocromunda and 40k in general. HH feels slightly "cleaner" and more advanced (in terms of tech-aesthetics) so it doesn't properly fit how I view the setting (except in some weirder cases like the Word Bearers). 

 

That's just me though and given how subjective this is YMMV

[Ripper.McGuirl]

Something that just occurred to me this second is that they seem to be inverting some of the aesthetic, tech wise, between 30 and 40k. It used to be that the HH stuff was more advanced and technological, and 40k was dilapidated and insane. With these new models, combined with things like the new Squat look and all of the primaris stuff, they seem to be moving towards HH being more baroque and reminiscent of the unification era, and 40k is looking more like it’s moving into the future.

[BitsHammer]

As someone who imagines the game as a Baroque Painting I am okay with this.

[Ripper.McGuirl]

Yeah I am happy either way and can just build my projects however I like, regardless.

[lansalt]

Something that just occurred to me this second is that they seem to be inverting some of the aesthetic, tech wise, between 30 and 40k. It used to be that the HH stuff was more advanced and technological, and 40k was dilapidated and insane. With these new models, combined with things like the new Squat look and all of the primaris stuff, they seem to be moving towards HH being more baroque and reminiscent of the unification era, and 40k is looking more like it’s moving into the future.

That's just the difference between the late Crusade-early Heresy as seen in FW's Black Books, and the late Heresy-Siege of Terra madness which is the turning point where 30k becomes 40k. It's an actual plot point in the last SoT novels.

 

Primaris stuff has already gone back to the baroque with Indomitus and the BT release, and the stories featuring them are as grimdark as ever.

 

The problem from my PoV is GW leaving the pseudo-historical/realistic military modeller aesthetic that defined 30k until Crusade or so. It has become more cartoony and fantasy-like.

[BitsHammer]

I don't understand that take entirely. I mean the prebuilt characters are rather baroque (and let's be honest historical militaries with officers wearing large amounts of medal and iconography isn't new in the slightest) but the line troopers aren't done up nearly as much meaning the core aesthetic is there and people can still kitbash models to fit what they want.

 

I don't think it's remotely cartoon or fantasy like, I just think the 'Eavy Metal style of clean paint jobs with well defined features is throwing people off again because that scheme is designed to show off all the details of the model, not provoke a stylistic feeling. And we've seen how changing the paint style can change the feeling of the model with Primaris.

[Trixie]

I'd prefer they keep Blanche style away from the Heresy. That IF praetor is way over designed, not quite as bad as poor Valdor but he's still covered in a lot of crap that'll be difficult to carve off. It looks like a mini from Aos or 40k to me and I'll 100% be selling mine if it comes in any box I end up buying.

 

Just my feels on the subject. If other folk like that style then good for them.

[BitsHammer]

I'd prefer they keep Blanche style away from the Heresy. That IF praetor is way over designed, not quite as bad as poor Valdor but he's still covered in a lot of crap that'll be difficult to carve off. It looks like a mini from Aos or 40k to me and I'll 100% be selling mine if it comes in any box I end up buying.

 

Just my feels on the subject. If other folk like that style then good for them.

I disagree since Blanche's art helped shape the Heresy and the feel for the Imperium. I get people's tastes differ but it's hard to accept that one of the main designers of the setting from M30 and on "doesn't fit the setting".

[OttoVonAwesome]

I really like both the Preators. One looks clearly loyal the other a traitor but also with the generic 30k studs, filigree and vented plates design that is pretty much the 30k bling aesthetic avoiding the excessive honours, purity seals and icons that makes up the 40k aesthetic. I'm glad they got crazy looking weapons as well like Yhorm's axe there on the traitor. Paragon blades are supposed to be one off weapons from numerous origins if they all looked like fancier power swords it wouldn't be living up to the lore.

[Cris R]

I think the Praetor models will lend themselves well to Blackshield armies if those rules appear later on. While I would have preferred something toned down, I think the look of highly personalized power armor can work well for this faction, especially if you swap the heads, rework the pose on the model with the sword, and use a “grimmer” paint scheme. I’ll be using them for my Blackshields list of we get those rules.

[No Foes Remain]

That's fair enough with the Blanche vibes inspiring 30k but there is such a thing as too much. The SoH Praetor is a good example of this, his armour is more fancier than Abbadon's and mix mash of stuff which doesn't really look like any mark despite it being artificer armour it still is based on a particular mark (take a look at all the special characters on FW's store, hell even the original Legion Praetors who just wore blinged up Mk3 and Cataphractii who would fit in any legion).

 

  The IF at least is wearing trimmed up Mk6 which is, aside from the WWE style belt (thank you reddit, I can no longer unsee it), clearly visable as such but like the SoH he's still fancier than the other named Legion Characters (to be fair this has been a while coming with the release of Tarvitz and the current run of Legion Praetors). It's just like someone just kept adding more and more, going past the just right stage (in my opinion, if you like it all the vibes to you) but I guess that is the trouble with CAD designs now, it's just too easy to keep adding and adding.

 

  I'm also still quite salty over the Mk6 retcon with it being the most common armour mark in the Heresy rather than the bloody armour named for it and I'm pretty much decided that I won't be getting this box because all bar the dread and the spartan I'm not 100% which is a damn same as I was really looking forward to it. But I'm guessing that GW isn't aiming this box for the current 30k players but the 40k players who remember Mk6 being the first armour mark for the Marines and trying to get them into it.

[Brofist]

Mods please ban all of the Blanche haters, thanks in advance