State of the Union (Heresy)

[BitsHammer]

Here's my advice as someone who went from 5th through 7th as a Sisters player: keep your expectations low going in, but try and give it a fair shake too. Set your expectations high and its easy for them to not be met, but keep them low but be unwilling to keep an open mind and you're just setting yourself up for confirmation bias.

 

I've got fingers crossed we see some batreps on the game on the 7th at least.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

 

I read it just fine, I just feel complaining about how the incomplete version plays is a waste of energy when we've seen a massive shift just going from 1.0 to 3.0. Who knows how much more shifted to get to the 5.0 final build version.

 

 

 

There's a difference between 'complaining' as you so eloquently put it, and analysing the things we have seen thus far and having an opinion about them.

 

But yeah, I believe having arguments about stuff like this is totally unecessary. We'll see how things will work out when the game gets released.

 

Speaking of which, out of pure curiosity, how do you happen to know there's a version 5.0 ?  

 

 

Here's my advice as someone who went from 5th through 7th as a Sisters player: keep your expectations low going in, but try and give it a fair shake too. Set your expectations high and its easy for them to not be met, but keep them low but be unwilling to keep an open mind and you're just setting yourself up for confirmation bias.

 

I've got fingers crossed we see some batreps on the game on the 7th at least.

 

 

Having played Sisters at various points in time from 2nd edition to 7th edition, I have to admit I enjoyed Codex: Witch Hunters the most. 

And the White Dwarf- / Black Library online mini dexes were still better than the Sisters incarnations during the past two editions.

Why ? Because they felt like someone put their heart's blood in them, as opposed to the newer books.

 

But this is off-topic gibberish of course ... silly me.

 

I firmly believe most of the HH community has an open mind when it comes to the new edition.

But of course there's expectations, people have them, that's just normal.

So let's just hope the final product will be surprisingly good.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: spelling 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Unknown Legionnaire

[SkimaskMohawk]

I for one don't like the gutted legion rules. Some of them have less crunch than their 9th ed chapter tactics...

 

I want my negatives to my special rule positives.

 

(I think for future as well, we can all imagine an asterisk after every comment about the leaked rules saying "based on what we've seen". )

 

I for one don't think we'll see huuuuge changes in the rules in all honesty. Like how bent and no briainer augury scanners are, making it to the 3rd iteration is pretty worrisome.

Thats a weird take. All the legions lost their downsides and a couple lost other aspects, so the sheer amount of legion rules is lower. But, they interact far more with various core mechanics, especially when combined with the special units.

 

There's absolutely more crunch to how a legions rules can be leveraged in the game now.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

honestly regardless of the wider mechanical changes, I'm just extremely glad about the widespread re-balancing of weapon profiles & units we've seen - it really feels like after 10 years a meta of what units/ options are good/ bad has really crystallized within the community, so it's really nice to feel that a much wider range of choices are viable now

[wildweasel]

Wait, it's not just gonna be plasma-rama?? :D

[Noserenda]

No, its all melta, all the time now :D 

[Spagunk]

Except for plasma pistols, plasma is generally still a good generalist weapon and still pulls off a fair number of ap2 in volume. The problem is that gets-hot is still a thing which usually bites you at the worst time. Still a nice support style weapon though in my opinion as it matches bolter range fairly well.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Spagunk

[Petitioner's City]

Do you guys think it will be cataphractii-rama now? Especially at smaller points levels?

[Marshal Mittens]

Everyone will have some from the 2.0 box.

[Corswain]

So what does everyone think we're gonna see next weekend? Full box contents seems likely to me but does anyone think we'll see anything more than that?

 

Not to say that I really need more than that. The box alone will be enough to make my weekend.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Corswain

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

So what does everyone think we're gonna see next weekend? Full box contents seems likely to me but does anyone think we'll see anything more than that?

 

Not to say that I really need more than that. The box alone will be enough to make my weekend.

 

I suspect we'll see a couple of units that are gonna release after the boxed set, similar to the stuff they revealed for the Krule Boyz/ Stormcast during the AoS Dominion full reveal stream

 

The Kratos is highly likely from my perspective given they've directly acknowledged there's a new tank in the trailer 

[BitsHammer]

I have my fingers crossed that they do a "how to play" or a bat rep game demo.

[Noserenda]

Except for plasma pistols, plasma is generally still a good generalist weapon and still pulls off a fair number of ap2 in volume. The problem is that gets-hot is still a thing which usually bites you at the worst time. Still a nice support style weapon though in my opinion as it matches bolter range fairly well.

I suspect the main problem is really FNP being more common and stacking, when half your plasma hits just bounce off tactical marines with a medic regardless of AP you are going to be looking for that S:8+ 

 

Open day will be the whole box, possibly some other releases as IHF says, but the dread should be up this Thursday and that just leaves the box itself to preview there.

[Marshal Mittens]

I think we will see the full box sets. After release we will get the 3 starter sets and some starter kits as well.

[Spagunk]

 

Except for plasma pistols, plasma is generally still a good generalist weapon and still pulls off a fair number of ap2 in volume. The problem is that gets-hot is still a thing which usually bites you at the worst time. Still a nice support style weapon though in my opinion as it matches bolter range fairly well.

I suspect the main problem is really FNP being more common and stacking, when half your plasma hits just bounce off tactical marines with a medic regardless of AP you are going to be looking for that S:8+ 

 

Open day will be the whole box, possibly some other releases as IHF says, but the dread should be up this Thursday and that just leaves the box itself to preview there.

 

You're correct but then that's going to happen to a lot of weapons that can't puncture the FNP/Shroud save somehow. I suppose you could say that I just don't see that being a specific problem with plasma. The extra shot for Heavy Bolter kinda deflates as well and I think it does slightly worse than the 3 shots previously.

 

It helps that plasma 5 pts cheaper now generally. Maybe there may be some tweaks once we go live.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Spagunk

[WrathOfTheLion]

I'd expect we'll see the box, possibly some direct rules information given that they'll be running playtests.

 

I'd also expect we'll see a few more units on top of the box, Kratos is a good bet, although I wonder if it's a dual kit with the Sicaran. I'd like to see the Rhino. A plastic Deimos Rhino with a MK II pintle gunner like we've seen would be pretty cool. I'm not certain we'll see any further infantry kits, although they could surprise me.

 

They might also announce some website reorganization, how/where they're going to put the 30k kits, maybe some info on where the Cataphractii and all kits will go, new box art for those, etc.

 

The last thing we might see is some paint line changes. I know new primers and all were mentioned as a possibility. Anecdotally, the Lupercal Green and I think Nocturne green base paints got pulled from the store shelf a few months back from the local one, so I'm wondering in particular they'll move up Sons of Horus Green more as the base paint there. Maybe there'll be new contrast paints there as well? I'm not particularly interested in those particularly for painting Space Marines, but those could be pretty cool for use in random other things. I could see them releasing a layer paint for edge highlights on Sons of Horus green as well.

Edited April 27, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Slips]

The Kratos is most decidedly not going to be a dual kit with a Sicaran its going to be wider than a Spartan.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Ah, I didn't look at the scale that much in the viceo, but that makes sense given its point cost.

[MegaVolt87]

Just realized the movement value changes have effectively made the same impact as reduced table size did for 40k. Maybe a trick to pull would be if the other guy goes first and you second, you move your stuff at old values (6', 12') etc to make their assaults a bit more tricky after you remove casualties from their round of shooting. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

Similar impact without soft invalidating old tables though, so there's that aspect to it.

[TheTrans]

 

I for one don't like the gutted legion rules. Some of them have less crunch than their 9th ed chapter tactics...

 

I want my negatives to my special rule positives.

 

(I think for future as well, we can all imagine an asterisk after every comment about the leaked rules saying "based on what we've seen". )

 

I for one don't think we'll see huuuuge changes in the rules in all honesty. Like how bent and no briainer augury scanners are, making it to the 3rd iteration is pretty worrisome.

Thats a weird take. All the legions lost their downsides and a couple lost other aspects, so the sheer amount of legion rules is lower. But, they interact far more with various core mechanics, especially when combined with the special units.

 

There's absolutely more crunch to how a legions rules can be leveraged in the game now.

 

To me its just made the legions significantly more homogenized which I think is a negative (YMMV) now they are just different colour marines with a +1 to hit, +1 to wound or something of a very similar ilk.

 

Compared to say Night Lords who had a talent for murder, got a cover save due to being night time weirdos, but scuttled away further when they failed morale checks and :cuss went down when HQs copped it. 

 

But now they'll just have +1 to wound when outnumberering a foe or something and thats it. Compared to say +1 to hit with IF bolt (....and auto or +1 to wound Blood Angels when charging etc... 

 

To me without the 'negatives'..but I'd probably be more inclined to call them flavouring than massive negatives.... its sucked out a lot of soul and definitely nods toward the 9th ed 'chapter tactics' generally just adding some stat modifier of some kind. 

[Brofist]

I haven't played a big game yet, but I welcome more mobile gameplay

[tinpact]

I figure the intention is to keep legions from getting pigeonholed too hard into any one role, and specific restrictions should come from RoWs.

So, you can take your Salamanders jetbike army or what have you without being handicapped, but also without RoW bonuses.

 

That said, it does still feel like a bit of a loss.

[panascope]

 

To me its just made the legions significantly more homogenized which I think is a negative (YMMV) now they are just different colour marines with a +1 to hit, +1 to wound or something of a very similar ilk.

 

Compared to say Night Lords who had a talent for murder, got a cover save due to being night time weirdos, but scuttled away further when they failed morale checks and went down when HQs copped it. 

 

But now they'll just have +1 to wound when outnumberering a foe or something and thats it. Compared to say +1 to hit with IF bolt (....and auto or +1 to wound Blood Angels when charging etc... 

 

To me without the 'negatives'..but I'd probably be more inclined to call them flavouring than massive negatives.... its sucked out a lot of soul and definitely nods toward the 9th ed 'chapter tactics' generally just adding some stat modifier of some kind. 

 

 

 

I think you're really, really overselling how much flavor the drawback rules added to most legions. I play Sons of Horus and World Eaters, Sons of Horus' drawback is that I can't benefit from allied warlord traits - a drawback that I have literally never seen come up in a game played by me or anybody else in nearly 10 years of playing Heresy - and World Eaters' drawbacks are that I have to Sweep - something I've never wanted to not do - and that I have to consolidate towards something I can hurt - which, again, has never been a drawback in the entire time I've owned the army.

 

You mention the morale check drawback if the Night Lords HQs died, but every marine squad in the current edition is Ld9 or 10, meaning you barely fail morale checks anyway.

[spessmarine]

Considering this was something delayed by a year or so, I can imagine they've definitely had enough time to prepare for a few things to follow-up release.

With the previews by Thursday the entire contents of the boxset, the minis that is, will be known and just the box itself will be unannounced, officially of course. Leaving room for some actual new minis to be shown.

 

 

I'd expect we'll see the box, possibly some direct rules information given that they'll be running playtests.

 

I'd also expect we'll see a few more units on top of the box, Kratos is a good bet, although I wonder if it's a dual kit with the Sicaran. I'd like to see the Rhino. A plastic Deimos Rhino with a MK II pintle gunner like we've seen would be pretty cool. I'm not certain we'll see any further infantry kits, although they could surprise me.

 

They might also announce some website reorganization, how/where they're going to put the 30k kits, maybe some info on where the Cataphractii and all kits will go, new box art for those, etc.

 

The last thing we might see is some paint line changes. I know new primers and all were mentioned as a possibility. Anecdotally, the Lupercal Green and I think Nocturne green base paints got pulled from the store shelf a few months back from the local one, so I'm wondering in particular they'll move up Sons of Horus Green more as the base paint there. Maybe there'll be new contrast paints there as well? I'm not particularly interested in those particularly for painting Space Marines, but those could be pretty cool for use in random other things. I could see them releasing a layer paint for edge highlights on Sons of Horus green as well.

Considering Angel Giraldez got an invite to WHfest and is "collaborating" on something. Definitely something going on in the paint sphere.