State of the Union (Heresy)

[Excessus]

let the plastic glue take care of it. 

[bushman101]

Or just use other shoulder pads.

Painting rivets/studs gets old....I always miss a few

[SkimaskMohawk]

Crown Breaker went from 4+ fnp to 5+ fnp.

 

Which, yea, 4+ fnp is brutal. But I still feel like terminators would have...not cared lol. And that most people put their ICs with terminators because of the invul and armour and good weapons and access to assault vehicle dedicated.

[lansalt]

Liquid greenstuff or plastic putty paste like the one Vallejo makes are also ideal for fixing small unwanted gaps like those.

[Taliesin]

So Macca over at the Outer Circle put up a video in which he amongst other things he claims the 2 Liber books, are just gameplay and rules books with just a single page of fluff for each legion. And 2 pages of artwork only.

 

Could that possible be true? Because that would be massively disappointing and its hard to see why that would be the case.

We know they are over 300 pages and he quotes a 340 pag count. There are only 9 legions per book so that means you'd be looking 35 pages per legion roughly, leaving room for an intro section as well. That doesnt make any sense to me to have *that* little background and fluff?

 

Thats not even comparing it to the Black Books which had at least 30 pages per legion, but in and of itself that seems weird. Here's his video, around the 14 minute mark.

 

[Tyrannicide]

Hopefully they have reprinted and included each legion's lore section from the black books in these. That makes the most sense and if these new Liber books really are 300 plus pages I don't see how they would achieve that page count based on only legion specific rules/units.

[bushman101]

If I had to guess (and this is only a guess) these books merely replace the red books.

A lot of the fluff was in the black campaign books, so we will probably get a rehash of the fluff when these get released

[ShadowCore67]

So Macca over at the Outer Circle put up a video in which he amongst other things he claims the 2 Liber books, are just gameplay and rules books with just a single page of fluff for each legion. And 2 pages of artwork only.

 

Could that possible be true? Because that would be massively disappointing and its hard to see why that would be the case.

We know they are over 300 pages and he quotes a 340 pag count. There are only 9 legions per book so that means you'd be looking 35 pages per legion roughly, leaving room for an intro section as well. That doesnt make any sense to me to have *that* little background and fluff?

 

Thats not even comparing it to the Black Books which had at least 30 pages per legion, but in and of itself that seems weird. Here's his video, around the 14 minute mark.

 

Each liber book also contains the entire generic legiones astartes unit list, as well as all the legion wargear, and any special rules specific to legion units/wargear.

 

In the leaked loyalist book, Dark Angels for example have one page of fluff and 6 pages of artwork/model pictures

[Slips]

I mean, we can already safely assume what the book contents will be already via the Phase 3 Playtest books that leaked.

 

All Macca is doing is just putting that info into video form; its nothing really new/that we didnt know about already.

[BitsHammer]

Additionally it's Macca, he'll take the most negative interpretation of everything. Pretty sure he'd complain about sunshine and rainbows if it got him clicks.

[Brofist]

So Macca over at the Outer Circle put up a video in which he amongst other things he claims the 2 Liber books, are just gameplay and rules books with just a single page of fluff for each legion. And 2 pages of artwork only.

 

Could that possible be true? Because that would be massively disappointing and its hard to see why that would be the case.

We know they are over 300 pages and he quotes a 340 pag count. There are only 9 legions per book so that means you'd be looking 35 pages per legion roughly, leaving room for an intro section as well. That doesnt make any sense to me to have *that* little background and fluff?

 

Thats not even comparing it to the Black Books which had at least 30 pages per legion, but in and of itself that seems weird. Here's his video, around the 14 minute mark.

 

Macca is probably correct, as he's basing this off the leaks he's seen. This said, we've known the black books are basically done and over, so its not really a surprise especially if you've looked through the leaks. You have a few pages of fluff for each legion and the rest are rules or unit entries.

 

So if you want legion fluff, you'll need to buy one of the older black books. Thew new books are for gaming fist and foremost.

[Doghouse]

I'm expecting these to be like the 8th ed Indexes with codex style books to come later.

[TheFirstKnight]

I’d just be happy to at least see that we get a colour plate and the examples of shoulder pads and markings across each legion.

[Balthamal]

It would be a massive waste of space to do the lore sections for the Legions - there's 15-25 pages each and that's supposed  to be multiplied by 9 for each book? Plus the legion entries etc etc etc. Space better used for units and rules.

[Gorgoff]

It would be a massive waste of space to do the lore sections for the Legions - there's 15-25 pages each and that's supposed to be multiplied by 9 for each book? Plus the legion entries etc etc etc. Space better used for units and rules.

The new edition hasn’t dropped and already people call fluff, markings and such a massive waste of space.

Oh, how much times have changed.

[Slips]

 

It would be a massive waste of space to do the lore sections for the Legions - there's 15-25 pages each and that's supposed to be multiplied by 9 for each book? Plus the legion entries etc etc etc. Space better used for units and rules.

The new edition hasn’t dropped and already people call fluff, markings and such a massive waste of space.

Oh, how much times have changed.

 

Do you want to have to carry around a 500+ Page book?

[Balthamal]

 

It would be a massive waste of space to do the lore sections for the Legions - there's 15-25 pages each and that's supposed to be multiplied by 9 for each book? Plus the legion entries etc etc etc. Space better used for units and rules.

The new edition hasn’t dropped and already people call fluff, markings and such a massive waste of space.

Oh, how much times have changed.

 

 

A 500 page book is impractical both from a logistics perspective and a cost perspective. If someone want's the lore of their Legion, they can buy the book it's contained in. You don't see everyone lugging around 5 black books to get use of the one unit contained in each as well as the generic legion units from betrayal. Unit markings contribute zero to how the game is played on the table. I'm all for giving Legions the full treatment. Paying £50 for a book when people will already have that information in all likelihood is an utter waste

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea we know the rules part of the core rules start at page 146. Each legion will get some fluff, though it will be a fraction of what they'd get in a given black book.

 

I do know a huge problem with the black books was that as nice as the lore and stuff was, the total price was a barrier for people just interested in the rules, and the size was a barrier for transportation. There's a reason why the red books existed.

[Brother Kraskor]

Additionally it's Macca, he'll take the most negative interpretation of everything. Pretty sure he'd complain about sunshine and rainbows if it got him clicks.

 

I used to think similarly about him but I have changed my opinion. He obviously loves the hobby and is clearly dedicated to it and wants the best for hobbyists, he is often right to be cynical, and offers a wealth of content for new players where he keeps his GW opinions on a shorter leash.

[bushman101]

I can't imagine the main rule book not having any fluff content.

The 40K rulebooks already do this (the full size books, not the mini rules)

 

If it's like anything else GW does, the main rules will 'gloss' over the fluff, while the black/'warzone' books will go into more detail.

[Rejects of Anvilus]

These are obviously designed to get every bodies legions working in 2.0. I expect later on we will start to see books focused on a couple of legions at a time with some new special units in and lots of fluff, that way everybody can buy more books.

[panascope]

 

 

 

It would be a massive waste of space to do the lore sections for the Legions - there's 15-25 pages each and that's supposed to be multiplied by 9 for each book? Plus the legion entries etc etc etc. Space better used for units and rules.

The new edition hasn’t dropped and already people call fluff, markings and such a massive waste of space.

Oh, how much times have changed.

A 500 page book is impractical both from a logistics perspective and a cost perspective. If someone want's the lore of their Legion, they can buy the book it's contained in. You don't see everyone lugging around 5 black books to get use of the one unit contained in each as well as the generic legion units from betrayal. Unit markings contribute zero to how the game is played on the table. I'm all for giving Legions the full treatment. Paying £50 for a book when people will already have that information in all likelihood is an utter waste

These are so clearly along the lines of a re-issuing of the red books I don’t get his complaint at all. The black books are cool but super impractical to actually whip out and reference if I want to make an army list.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

Additionally it's Macca, he'll take the most negative interpretation of everything. Pretty sure he'd complain about sunshine and rainbows if it got him clicks.

I used to think similarly about him but I have changed my opinion. He obviously loves the hobby and is clearly dedicated to it and wants the best for hobbyists, he is often right to be cynical, and offers a wealth of content for new players where he keeps his GW opinions on a shorter leash.

It's obvious he cares deeply about 30k.

 

But it's also obvious that he lets his dislike for GW undermine the points he makes. He's sloppy with his examples, and that makes it easy to ask if he was such a fan, shouldn't he know more about what he's talking about?

 

His 20 odd minute opinion piece on the playtest version for example. He talks about how he has Raven guard and it's the army he plays, but gets their rules wrong and claims they get screwed by their 2nd edition rules, which he also gets wrong. His take on cataphractii being worse than tartaros has always confused me, as it's mathematically untrue; him thinking the difference is even bigger now in the tartaros favor is even more baffling. Same with salamanders allegedly getting worse.

 

Point is, he's consistently very negative, and often wrong about simple things, despite being so invested in it. He's very easy to dislike if you're positive on things, and also easy to dislike if you have criticisms because he's poisoned the well with his shallow take.

[BitsHammer]

 

It would be a massive waste of space to do the lore sections for the Legions - there's 15-25 pages each and that's supposed to be multiplied by 9 for each book? Plus the legion entries etc etc etc. Space better used for units and rules.

The new edition hasn’t dropped and already people call fluff, markings and such a massive waste of space.

Oh, how much times have changed.

 

A waste of space? No. But we have to draw the line somewhere and that's likely the best place to do it at launch.

 

Additionally it's Macca, he'll take the most negative interpretation of everything. Pretty sure he'd complain about sunshine and rainbows if it got him clicks.

 

I used to think similarly about him but I have changed my opinion. He obviously loves the hobby and is clearly dedicated to it and wants the best for hobbyists, he is often right to be cynical, and offers a wealth of content for new players where he keeps his GW opinions on a shorter leash.

 

He could choose to take his passion and try and spread that in a positive manner but has chosen to dip into extreme hyperbole while overselling the negative for clicks. Make excuses if you like, but he's got a brand associated with him now and it ain't a positive one.

[OttoVonAwesome]

Liquid greenstuff or plastic putty paste like the one Vallejo makes are also ideal for fixing small unwanted gaps like those.

Liquid Greenstuff shinks as it dries and tears up awfully when sanded, Vallejo is alot better if you can get your hands on it.