State of the Union (Heresy)

[Noserenda]

Macca used to be more positive, then the last few years happened, and its a bit silly to say they didnt upset a lot of people :D Besides, youtube loooooves negativity unfortunately :/  I can tell you first hand when i was writing for a youtube channel, deep, informative videos that were a lot of work get a fraction of the viewtime of off the cuff moaning or spicy takes. Drove my fairly positive boss of the time quite mad.

[Brofist]

Yeah I don't want to dogpile on Macca because the flipside of it for me are guys like the old IC podcast. Its totally possible to drink too much corporate coolaid. He strikes me as opinionated and easy to get salty. His 20min youtube rant about saber tanks is probably my favorite piece of his content, which I consume mostly because he's so mad about it I find it amusing. Edited May 17, 2022 by Brofist

[OttoVonAwesome]

Yeah I don't want to dogpile on Macca because the flipside of it for me are guys like the old IC podcast. Its totally possible to drink too much corporate coolaid. He strikes me as opinionated and easy to get salty. His 20min youtube rant about saber tanks is probably my favorite piece of his content, which I consume mostly because he's so mad about it I find it amusing.

Got a link? lol

[spessmarine]

Looking through the list of kits allegedly shifting from resin to plastic that've been mentioned over the last year or so on here and via reliable sources on Discord, we're currently looking at the following sooner rather than later;

 

Legiones Astartes

• Legion Tactical Squad - Mark VI**
• Legion Tactical Squad - Mark II***
• Spartan Assault Tank**
• Legion Sicaran Battle Tank*
• Legion Kratos Battle Tank*
• Contemptor-pattern Dreadnought**
• Leviathan-pattern Dreadnought*
• Deimos-pattern Rhino* (variants)
• Castraferrum-pattern Dreadnought***
• Caestus Assault Ram* (via FW staff)

Mechanicum

• dual Ursarax/Thallax kit***
• Thanatar Siege-Automata***
• Domitar/Arlatax Battle-Automata***

 

* soft-confirmed

** hard-confirmed (box content)

*** rumoured

 

I shall be very curious to see what actually comes out in the long run.

Hmm...

[Brofist]

 

Yeah I don't want to dogpile on Macca because the flipside of it for me are guys like the old IC podcast. Its totally possible to drink too much corporate coolaid. He strikes me as opinionated and easy to get salty. His 20min youtube rant about saber tanks is probably my favorite piece of his content, which I consume mostly because he's so mad about it I find it amusing.

Got a link? lol

 

 

Enjoy!

[Slips]

 

Looking through the list of kits allegedly shifting from resin to plastic that've been mentioned over the last year or so on here and via reliable sources on Discord, we're currently looking at the following sooner rather than later;

 

Legiones Astartes

• Legion Tactical Squad - Mark VI**
• Legion Tactical Squad - Mark II***
• Spartan Assault Tank**
• Legion Sicaran Battle Tank*
• Legion Kratos Battle Tank*
• Contemptor-pattern Dreadnought**
• Leviathan-pattern Dreadnought*
• Deimos-pattern Rhino* (variants)
• Castraferrum-pattern Dreadnought***
• Caestus Assault Ram* (via FW staff)

Mechanicum

• dual Ursarax/Thallax kit***
• Thanatar Siege-Automata***
• Domitar/Arlatax Battle-Automata***

 

* soft-confirmed

** hard-confirmed (box content)

*** rumoured

 

I shall be very curious to see what actually comes out in the long run.

Hmm...

 

Yeah, Ive heard of a plastic Thallax kit being a thing so makes sense they'd dual it up with Ursarax.

[Cris R]

 

 

Yeah I don't want to dogpile on Macca because the flipside of it for me are guys like the old IC podcast. Its totally possible to drink too much corporate coolaid. He strikes me as opinionated and easy to get salty. His 20min youtube rant about saber tanks is probably my favorite piece of his content, which I consume mostly because he's so mad about it I find it amusing.

Got a link? lol

 

 

Enjoy!

 

 

Yeah, this exemplifies the issues with his takes. All he could have said was "folks, it's really small for the price. Don't understand why, not what I would have done for this price point" and continued with the video. Instead, he belabors that point over and over until he realizes he has to make other points in the review. After I saw that video, which was my first, I didn't bother watching another one. There are much better places to get solid reviews - or have good conversations about 30k like these forums - and it's better to invest my time in them to have a good, positive hobby experience.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Cris R

[spessmarine]

 

Hmm....

 

Yeah, Ive heard of a plastic Thallax kit being a thing so makes sense they'd dual it up with Ursarax.

 

Sleuthing around to find what they'll announce is so fun

[OttoVonAwesome]

I'm really hoping they'll announce the Solar Auxilia in plastic soon. Cool army but man that price point.

[Bung]

 

It would be a massive waste of space to do the lore sections for the Legions - there's 15-25 pages each and that's supposed to be multiplied by 9 for each book? Plus the legion entries etc etc etc. Space better used for units and rules.

The new edition hasn’t dropped and already people call fluff, markings and such a massive waste of space.

Oh, how much times have changed.

Why not do a slip case with 2 books?

One for rules and one for fluff.

They already did that once for 40k.

[No Foes Remain]

 

Additionally it's Macca, he'll take the most negative interpretation of everything. Pretty sure he'd complain about sunshine and rainbows if it got him clicks.

 

I used to think similarly about him but I have changed my opinion. He obviously loves the hobby and is clearly dedicated to it and wants the best for hobbyists, he is often right to be cynical, and offers a wealth of content for new players where he keeps his GW opinions on a shorter leash.

 

He could choose to take his passion and try and spread that in a positive manner but has chosen to dip into extreme hyperbole while overselling the negative for clicks. Make excuses if you like, but he's got a brand associated with him now and it ain't a positive one.

 

Macca did take is passion and spread it, he did 74 videos on getting started in 30k, covering all factions and legionsm he even did videos on what 40k models can be used for 30k as well as a video on what not to buy when you are starting out. He's doing the same for HH 2.0 and is 10 videos deep so far. I don't see any other youtubers doing videos in such a way.

 

In regards to his negativeness, he did a video a while back saying he's noticed his more negative trend and has been trying to come back from that and make better content for it.

[Joe]

Macca is an alright person generally, but his negativity definitely went a stretch too far, at least to the point that it was putting people off the Heresy as a hobby. At least he's not Cat who... is legitimately not right in the head, and really needs help.

 

 

Fisty-wisty time.

[Balerion84]

The Eskaton Imperative:

- Destroyer Assault Squads, Mortalis Destroyer Squads, and Interemptors as troops

- Dreadwing get +1 to wound against units within Dangerous Terrain

- Dreadwing autopass Dangerous Terrain tests

- All Open Terrain outside of either player's DZ is Difficult, unless it's impassable, a fortification, a building, or already Dangerous

- You get up to some unknown number of Eskaton markers, which can be no larger than a 25mm base, to be placed anywhere not within 6" of a battlefield edge or either player's DZ; everything within some unknown distance of this Eskaton marker, including terrain pieces, is Dangerous Terrain

- The WL must be Dreadwing or the Lion

- No Fortifications

- If the enemy has any units outside their DZ that aren't pinned or falling back, they gain an unknown amount of VP

- All Troops, Destroyer Assault Squads, or Destroyer Mortalis Squads must be Dreadwing

I'm just catching up on the leaks, so does this mean I might actually be able to play my Dreadwing in ZM and with working Marduk? :O

 

If true, that's all I wanted for DA :D

[Corswain]

I was always working on the assumption that the new books were just rules. Just new versions of the red books. I do hope GW or FW do some sort of new version of the black books though, they were great.

 

I'm not a big gamer so it just means I can spend a little more on models and a little less on books.

[Ripper.McGuirl]

Like others have said, the liber books will have a lot of pages dedicated to all the unit entries, plus all the rules for each individual legion. Some legions actually have quite a few pages of rules.

The real question is not “will the background material show up in the liber books”, it’s “where WILL all that material show up?”

[SkimaskMohawk]

That's another great scheme; unsurprisingly it shares a lot of concepts with the EC.

 

I get they want to show various techniques, but idk. The scars one has like 2 highlights for the red, highlights for the black, light dot on the eyes and freehand, but looks roughly the same as the fist. Arguably a bit worse because of the colour placement. Just go with the simple, and fast techniques that give great results.

[No Foes Remain]

That's another great scheme; unsurprisingly it shares a lot of concepts with the EC.

 

I get they want to show various techniques, but idk. The scars one has like 2 highlights for the red, highlights for the black, light dot on the eyes and freehand, but looks roughly the same as the fist. Arguably a bit worse because of the colour placement. Just go with the simple, and fast techniques that give great results.

I agree, they should just show some simple ways to paint the legions (like their old videos showing the Thousand Sons, Alpha Legion and Word Bearers being painted with contrast paints) and then go into the more complext techniques for another video.

[Balthamal]

 

 

It would be a massive waste of space to do the lore sections for the Legions - there's 15-25 pages each and that's supposed to be multiplied by 9 for each book? Plus the legion entries etc etc etc. Space better used for units and rules.

The new edition hasn’t dropped and already people call fluff, markings and such a massive waste of space.

Oh, how much times have changed.

Why not do a slip case with 2 books?

One for rules and one for fluff.

They already did that once for 40k.

 

 

Two reasons really. First of all price point. It has to be cheap enough to be attractive to newer players as well as not be over the odds for current players who may/may not already have a lot of the information that will be contained in it. Secondly, they still want the black books to sell. They want people buying them because they'll get a great margin on them and for more veteran players, it's very likely that they'll have the black book containing their legion at the very least. Others have the full set for collection/completion purposes but that's a bit of 6 of one, half a dozen of the other so it doesn't make sense for them to take away sales of one product on the chance of further sales of another, especially one that would be cheaper.

[Gorgoff]

 

 

 

It would be a massive waste of space to do the lore sections for the Legions - there's 15-25 pages each and that's supposed to be multiplied by 9 for each book? Plus the legion entries etc etc etc. Space better used for units and rules.

The new edition hasn’t dropped and already people call fluff, markings and such a massive waste of space.

Oh, how much times have changed.

Do you want to have to carry around a 500+ Page book?

Oh yes. A big ol' tome. I'd train my toddler to be my book holder. :) Edited May 17, 2022 by Gorgoff

[Ripper.McGuirl]

Like others have said, the liber books will have a lot of pages dedicated to all the unit entries, plus all the rules for each individual legion. Some legions actually have quite a few pages of rules.

The real question is not “will the background material show up in the liber books”, it’s “where WILL all that material show up?”

[Taliesin]

If I had to guess (and this is only a guess) these books merely replace the red books.

A lot of the fluff was in the black campaign books, so we will probably get a rehash of the fluff when these get released

 

I thought the Red Books were much shorter though, not 680 pages worth like these 2 books will be. I did really expect it to have like 10-15 pages of fluff, artwork and then rules for each legion. Apparently from what everybody is confirming here from having seen the leaks, thats not the case at all and Macca is simply correct in what he is saying.

 

 

So Macca over at the Outer Circle put up a video in which he amongst other things he claims the 2 Liber books, are just gameplay and rules books with just a single page of fluff for each legion. And 2 pages of artwork only.

 

Could that possible be true? Because that would be massively disappointing and its hard to see why that would be the case.

We know they are over 300 pages and he quotes a 340 pag count. There are only 9 legions per book so that means you'd be looking 35 pages per legion roughly, leaving room for an intro section as well. That doesnt make any sense to me to have *that* little background and fluff?

 

Thats not even comparing it to the Black Books which had at least 30 pages per legion, but in and of itself that seems weird. Here's his video, around the 14 minute mark.

 

Each liber book also contains the entire generic legiones astartes unit list, as well as all the legion wargear, and any special rules specific to legion units/wargear.

 

In the leaked loyalist book, Dark Angels for example have one page of fluff and 6 pages of artwork/model pictures

 

 

So it lines up with what he says. Thats a shame.

 

 

 

 

 

A 500 page book is impractical both from a logistics perspective and a cost perspective. If someone want's the lore of their Legion, they can buy the book it's contained in. 

 

 

I appreciate that the Black Books ( now completely out of print) are heavy. But when you say that people can simply buy the book that contains their legions lore...I dont know what you are thinking of. It seems like the lore is gone for now and the new edition launches with barely any? Like 1 page for each legion? What about new players that this so focused on, what if they want background. I assume you mean that the books with lore for legions will come, at some point.

 

Like others have said, the liber books will have a lot of pages dedicated to all the unit entries, plus all the rules for each individual legion. Some legions actually have quite a few pages of rules.

The real question is not “will the background material show up in the liber books”, it’s “where WILL all that material show up?”

 

Indeed, I thought this would be in the huge Libers but those are just rules it seems, and of no interest to me I see now. So where will all the fluff go to now in the new edition? 

[Petitioner's City]

So there is this strange thing called the Warhammer Vault; I imagine that is where you'll find over the coming months volumes of The Horus Heresy. 

[nagashnee]

So there is this strange thing called the Warhammer Vault; I imagine that is where you'll find over the coming months volumes of The Horus Heresy. 

So an online service i can only access on subscription and not an actual book then?  I own the 3 black books i wanted/needed and no amount of online paid or even free content will ever ever equal a book. 

 

Now free pdfs of the black books would be a nice move but again not really what many of us are looking for. Take the existing books, cut out all the rules, group them together to bring them back up to size and then PRINT MONEY. 

[Bung]

 

 

 

 

It would be a massive waste of space to do the lore sections for the Legions - there's 15-25 pages each and that's supposed to be multiplied by 9 for each book? Plus the legion entries etc etc etc. Space better used for units and rules.

The new edition hasn’t dropped and already people call fluff, markings and such a massive waste of space.

Oh, how much times have changed.

Why not do a slip case with 2 books?

One for rules and one for fluff.

They already did that once for 40k.

Two reasons really. First of all price point. It has to be cheap enough to be attractive to newer players as well as not be over the odds for current players who may/may not already have a lot of the information that will be contained in it. Secondly, they still want the black books to sell. They want people buying them because they'll get a great margin on them and for more veteran players, it's very likely that they'll have the black book containing their legion at the very least. Others have the full set for collection/completion purposes but that's a bit of 6 of one, half a dozen of the other so it doesn't make sense for them to take away sales of one product on the chance of further sales of another, especially one that would be cheaper.

So you say big Lore tomes wouldnt sell without rules?

 

In my eyes they should split lore and rules.

Make a nice slip case with 2 Hardcover books only sold together. Have a small one with only rules for gaming purpose to make it more customers friendly.

[bushman101]

For the Imperial Fists, there is a pic with the Caestus in it.

Is that pic new or old?