State of the Union (Heresy)

[No Foes Remain]

For the Imperial Fists, there is a pic with the Caestus in it.

Is that pic new or old?

It's an old pic from Black Book 3, page 51.

[Slips]

For the Imperial Fists, there is a pic with the Caestus in it.

Is that pic new or old?

Its a re-photoshop of a REALLY OLD photo of an IW vs IF ZM Boarding Action diorama board.

 

[bushman101]

Ah. Bummer

If it was new, it would give a nod to a new plastic one

[WrathOfTheLion]

If it's in the core Legion army list, that'd be the best sign that it'd get a new plastic kit sooner rather than later. I doubt they'd rerelease the resin one at this point.

[Fire Golem]

I imagine a plastic Caestus is fairly low on the priority list, tbh. 

[bushman101]

Probably.

But it would be a nice surprise

[Fire Golem]

It would, as long as we get a Mastodon too!

[Spagunk]

Regarding the lore info, I think people are missing the point of the release. The new edition is made to get you playing games. Sure, the lore brings people in but right now they need to get people playing the game. That means box set and rules.

 

As a comparison, when they dropped Adeptus Titanicus, it came with what I see as a very spartan rule book. It had some basic info on key players but contained very little fluff. I equate this release in a similar vein: Rules to support the release. The difference being that you won't have to wait 3 years before they compile rules for traitor and loyalist: It's a day 1 release.

Whether or not they pull in more of the original fluff remains to be seen but I think it is WAY too soon to be crying wolf until we get a better idea on the what FW is actually planning to do going forward.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Spagunk

[dicebod]

Regarding the lore info, I think people are missing the point of the release. The new edition is made to get you playing games. Sure, the lore brings people in but right now, they need to get people playing the game. That means box set and rules.

 

As a comparison, when they dropped Adeptus Titanicus, it came with what I see as a very spartan rule book. It had some basic info on key players but contained very little fluff. I equate this release in a similar vein: Rules to support the release. The difference being that you won't have to wait 3 years before they compile rules for traitor and loyalist: It's a day 1 release.

 

Whether or not they pull in more of the original fluff remains to be seen but I think it is WAY too soon to be crying wolf until we get a better idea on the what FW is actually planning to do going forward.

Yeah I can't understand why this is something people are gnashing their teeth over. Like...we've had red books with minimal fluff in them for years. The Libers seem to very clearly emulate those red books, except it's even better because you will only have to lug one book around to access the majority of units for your marine army instead of two.

 

There will probably be fluff in the rulebook like there's fluff in every other rulebook for every other GW game system in recent memory.

[No Foes Remain]

New article on the Mk6 on Warhammer community.

 

 

  To repeat what I said in the N&R thread, the pads in the art of the Legiones look a little off as if they are smaller or too far down but they look fine on the models.

[Vardus]

 

For the Imperial Fists, there is a pic with the Caestus in it.

Is that pic new or old?

Its a re-photoshop of a REALLY OLD photo of an IW vs IF ZM Boarding Action diorama board.

 

 

 

The Image first appeared in Book III Extermination at the bottom of page 51.

 

Th first three books being the only ones I managed to purchase, I'm looking forward to this re-boot.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Was going to say Templar assault was buffed, and it was, raw, but only because they screwed up by giving them rage 1 in the playtest. As rage replaces the normal +1 with the value in brackets, it was functionally non-existent in v.3, and actually gives them 2 extra attacks on the charge instead of 1 now.

[Noserenda]

Regarding the lore info, I think people are missing the point of the release. The new edition is made to get you playing games. Sure, the lore brings people in but right now, they need to get people playing the game. That means box set and rules.

 

As a comparison, when they dropped Adeptus Titanicus, it came with what I see as a very spartan rule book. It had some basic info on key players but contained very little fluff. I equate this release in a similar vein: Rules to support the release. The difference being that you won't have to wait 3 years before they compile rules for traitor and loyalist: It's a day 1 release.

 

Whether or not they pull in more of the original fluff remains to be seen but I think it is WAY too soon to be crying wolf until we get a better idea on the what FW is actually planning to do going forward.

Titanicus is a bad example, the books are still fluff lite years later, certainly by the standards of the black books. This post does highlight the rampant corner cutting that seems to be going on with books/rules though, which feels like a bit of a mismatch with the huge commitment in plastic kits and marketing.

[Hungry Nostraman Lizard]

 

All transfers & legion dice removed from FW site - wonder if they'll be getting sold through the GW site after launch.

And I was just checking out the transfers last night. Here's hoping that it is just moving them. The FW ones are way above and beyond the versions GW usually sell.

 

 

Weird that they're so different if they're under the same building. The 40k Night Lord ones are a completely different hue... for what purpose? 

 

One nit pick I have (and a small one at that) is that the shoulder pad split is quite visible in the majority of the shots I've seen. I understand the reasoning behind the split because of the extra detail they can get with the studs but it makes me twitch a little each time I see that seam!

Yeah, I think i'd have preferred less "bulbous" studs if it meant the seam wasn't there.

 

 

That's another great scheme; unsurprisingly it shares a lot of concepts with the EC.

 

I get they want to show various techniques, but idk. The scars one has like 2 highlights for the red, highlights for the black, light dot on the eyes and freehand, but looks roughly the same as the fist. Arguably a bit worse because of the colour placement. Just go with the simple, and fast techniques that give great results.

Peachy is the best in these videos that we've seen. I would have had him paint all of them, but I understand that's asking a lot.

[Spagunk]

Titanicus is a bad example, the books are still fluff lite years later, certainly by the standards of the black books. This post does highlight the rampant corner cutting that seems to be going on with books/rules though, which feels like a bit of a mismatch with the huge commitment in plastic kits and marketing.

 

I mean, fluff light in that it's not 200 pages of fluff ala early black books. That said AT still goes on to explaining notable battles/campaigns very similar to what you see in book 8 and 9 but not nearly book 7 and before. It's all in context as this is very nearly the Specialist games team taking it on rather than the resurrected soul of dear Alan. I believe Anuj did help with this prior to leaving but that's speculation based on his own comments.

 

Pure rampant speculation:

They'll re-release black book fluff as a supplement that includes all of the campaign info, side rules and the like afterwards. There is a HUGE amount of interesting non-fluff content also not included in what rules I've seen. Would be a shame to just delete it all given that you can still work many of the already written stuff into the current ruleset with only a few updates. Case in point is ZM  and to a lesser extent "Centurion" style (RE: Chondex campaign in book 8) but mostly the campaign stuff which has a lot of stuff related to new deployment maps and the like. The benefit of having a separate book is that they can squeeze in a few different campaigns/stories into a single book however they wish. Hell, Book 7 could be a whole book on its own, given how it was written. If anything, they can just strip the legion rules out of what they have now and re-release old black books as paperbacks.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Spagunk

[Balthamal]

 

So you say big Lore tomes wouldnt sell without rules?

 

In my eyes they should split lore and rules.

Make a nice slip case with 2 Hardcover books only sold together. Have a small one with only rules for gaming purpose to make it more customers friendly.

 

 

Big lore tomes DO sell and have sold incredibly well. The Black Books are lore tomes first and foremost by the measure of pages of lore vs rules at least. My point is, GW/FW will want to continue in the same vein, for a couple of reasons, primarily profit related. The black books made them millions, literally. They're not going to screw with that kind of reliable bottom line, at least not without taking several sizeable risks.

 

Most veteran players/collectors own at least 1 black book, balance of probabilities, that being the book with their specific Legion lore. Others (myself included) have multiple or all, either for the sake of completion, being interested in the contents (eg the retribution campaign system) or because the book has the unit entry for something relatively new that predated the black/red books containing just the army lists. So the demand for lore alone has been proven over a long stretch of time and at a relatively high price point. 

 

With anything new, the considerations have to be balanced - will new people attracted to 30k want to fork out on 9 (and counting) big books at however much £££ a throw? Maybe, maybe not, I don't know what data they have access to base that decision on. Will it be worthwhile doing, as you say, a lore book and a rulebook set? Probably not - at best, the lore included will be the same things printed in the black books, rendering it of no value to someone who already has multiples of them. Now, if they have no plans at all to put the Black Books back into print, hard/softback, then it could end up being the preferred option for them because they're guaranteeing sales. Likewise if it's going to be brand new lore and they're going to blow up their model of releasing lore books based around specific campaigns during the Heresy. 

 

Ultimately, they have to offer something to new players to get them invested whilst at the same time making sure they're not overly milking current players. Given the proven track record of the old model, I'd be shocked they'd risk it, but it's been years since the last release and just looking at the new model previews, clearly a great deal of things have happened in the background during that time so it's anyone's guess what the thought process is.

[Astartes Consul]

I love / hate how every time Macca and the Outer Circle gets mentioned on this thread, we all just end up spending two or three pages beefing. 

 

 

Anyone got thoughts of the Fists article? Have any of the special rules changed from the leaks?

[Slips]

Beyond Templar Assault providing an actual benefit to charging now, the IF rules shown are pretty much unchanged as far as I can tell.

[jaxom]

 

So there is this strange thing called the Warhammer Vault; I imagine that is where you'll find over the coming months volumes of The Horus Heresy. 

So an online service i can only access on subscription and not an actual book then?  I own the 3 black books i wanted/needed and no amount of online paid or even free content will ever ever equal a book. 

 

Now free pdfs of the black books would be a nice move but again not really what many of us are looking for. Take the existing books, cut out all the rules, group them together to bring them back up to size and then PRINT MONEY. 

 

 

More realistically, I think, is that so much lore material is available on fan-sites and media. Between wiki-style sites, forums, Youtube and podcast lore dives, GW/FW don't have a monopoly on the resources needed to establish a paint scheme or which legion has the most Roman/Greek/Mongol/Knightly/Whatever influences on military structure. What they will have a monopoly on (at least initially) is the new rules.

 

Regarding the lore info, I think people are missing the point of the release. The new edition is made to get you playing games. Sure, the lore brings people in but right now they need to get people playing the game. That means box set and rules.

^This. It's a lot easier to push a game system inside a gaming store and now HH is a true core game so there should be demo tables and the rest in stores. "You liked it? Here's a box set with all the minis we used, and more, plus a rule book and background/lore booklet about all 18 legions. Why don't you come back in a few days for a painting lesson on one whose paint scheme you like? You can then also can pick up the Liber book with the rules for that legion."

[infyrana]

Beyond Templar Assault providing an actual benefit to charging now, the IF rules shown are pretty much unchanged as far as I can tell.

Is there a place where I can view any of the known rules for HH2.0 please?  Ideally looking for anything IF, UM, RG or DG related at this point.

[BitsHammer]

So, based on the tie in book it looks like the box set isn't the Siege of Terra exactly, but the Siege of Cthonia which is apparently 12-14.M31 which puts it around Late-Heresy according to the timeline:

 

[Tyrannicide]

Has anyone read any previous work of those lesser known authors (not French or Thorpe) that feature in Cthonia’s Reckoning?

[Cris R]

Ah. Bummer

If it was new, it would give a nod to a new plastic one

 

I'd rather have a plastic Storm Eagle/Fire Raptor kit that would significantly lower the financial and hobby time barrier that can deter most players from running Angel's Wrath. I get some folks have the tools and physical space to assemble both kits but we're about to enter a plastic Spartan world that places more emphasis on actually enjoying the process of assembling and painting your miniature rather, so it would be good for FW and GW to keep the momentum going by revisiting some notorious kits like those two and seeing whether it's feasible from a business and engineering standpoint.

[WrathOfTheLion]

That'd certainly be a helpful kit, but I think we'll likely see some kits like Land Raiders addressed first. The good thing is all of these kits should be making the move to plastic though, which is a good thing.

 

They could surprise us and do it sooner than I think though. I wouldn't be opposed to that.

[Cris R]

That'd certainly be a helpful kit, but I think we'll likely see some kits like Land Raiders addressed first. The good thing is all of these kits should be making the move to plastic though, which is a good thing.

 

They could surprise us and do it sooner than I think though. I wouldn't be opposed to that.

 

I mean, the 30k tanks are one of the major things that attracted me to the system, so I'm happy to have all the treads come in plastic before we get plastic flyers. It'll fit with my new Day of Sorrows list I'm pulling together anyways.