State of the Union (Heresy)

[MichaelCarmine]

Most people i know seem to have missed, that the "new" (phase3) Termite Assault Drill now has 6" 3-shot meltas in its nose. So you have a deep striking transport with decent AT-firepower.

If you empbark a nice ap1/2 squad inside, play 2 to maximise accuracy, you could have a very nice counter for Spartan/Terminators.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Haywire is good en masse, which is why the rapier battery was such an appealing option.

 

That being said, with the removal of armour ceramite, fast melta options can really sink some Spartans now.

[Marshal Mittens]

How points pricey or survival do we think the las squad will be compared to triple grav-pred? I wont be holding my breath for plastic legion rapiers, but I will hope for them :)

Las squads are pricey in current rules, but I think that while they have the same durability as normal marines, the 48" range means they can sit way in the back and hit their targets, without needing to expose themselves.

[Marshal Rohr]

They are really knocking this buildup out of the park. In spite of some YouTubers at discourse minis and outer circle everyday is giving us new and better stuff. Truly gonna be an amazing year. Edited May 21, 2022 by Captain Idaho
Unnecessary comment removed

[SkimaskMohawk]

They are really knocking this buildup out of the park. In spite of some YouTubers at discourse minis and outer circle everyday is giving us new and better stuff. Truly gonna be an amazing year.

Outer circle has some good points and concerns, but unfortunately they're drowned by his obsession with the new Imperial fists rules and frankly shallow knowledge.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Captain Idaho
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[WrathOfTheLion]

 

 

They are really knocking this buildup out of the park. In spite of some YouTuber at discourse minis and outer circle everyday is giving us new and better stuff. Truly gonna be an amazing year.

Outer circle has some good points and concerns, but unfortunately they're drowned by his obsession with the new Imperial fists rules and frankly shallow knowledge.

The most standout one to me from a top level view was that I remember him proposing maybe a year or two back that they do a Rogue Trader/MK VI throwback as the next box a while ago, then they do it, but you can see how that went as far as that goes.

 

Usually he's got some good points though, of which I think some of are actually being addressed. He proposed Legion decals moving from FW to GW for example, which was a good point, and it looks like that may happen.

 

The Imperial Fists stuff I didn't even bother to try to listen to. I'm not going to listen to 15 minutes on a hot take of a rules snippet and what it means for overall balance, which is a priori absurd to try to extrapolate from.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Captain Idaho
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[ShadowCore67]

So for all of you experienced players and people who have read the leked playtest.

If i was keen to strat painting some more minis now, and have the means to purchase some new toys.

 

What would you take that's anti "Spartan full of terminators"?

 

I was slowly painting up a Dark Angels force last year so I'm good on my standard bolter boys and I have a lovely Deredero Las/missile Dread

-Land speeder Proteus can now take double graviton gun or double multi melta

-Contemptors with a chainfist and graviton guns in their palms.

-The Kratos melta cannon is essentially 4 kraken penetrator missiles

-Graviton rapier squads.

-Basically anything with lots of melta that can safely get close since armoured ceramite doesn't exist anymore.

 

We also might end up seeing Spartans a little less often since they went up 50 points and armoured ceramite doesn't exist.

[Marshal Rohr]

Imperial Fists having great rules is just being lore accurate. They should always have the best rules.

[bushman101]

The Blood Angel preview seemed like more fluff and less rules.

[infyrana]

Imperial Fists having great rules is just being lore accurate. They should always have the best rules.

My Death Guard had always been jealous of the Imperial Fist 30k rules, especially their focus towards shield rules and their Stone Gauntlet RoW.  Whether good or not, it was a great way to focus on my preference for more Breacher units and achieve toughness 5 for a more DG feel (Ok, post fall to nurgle toughness I admit).  So yeah, this time around with the new plastics I've been looking at starting a new legion - but still not IF, I refuse to give in and paint yellow.  I don't think from what little I read that the SG RoW allows breachers as troops or confers the +1 toughness now?

[WrathOfTheLion]

Nice to see the bonuses to charge for Blood Angels also count even when disordered, ensures the legion rules don't get turned off from reactions, which is good. Not sure if that actually differs from the playtest any, but I like to see that be a thing for any Legion traits, would feel kind of gamey if your trait could get turned off from that.

[Loquille]

Heresy Thursday continues with Helm and shoulder upgrades for the Imperial Fists 

 

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/19/heresy-thursday-trick-out-your-imperial-fists-with-bespoke-mk-vi-heads-and-pauldrons/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=the-horus-heresy&utm_content=hhbloodangels.-

[Astartes Consul]

Confirmed resin MKVI upgrade sets for…all legions!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/19/heresy-thursday-trick-out-your-imperial-fists-with-bespoke-mk-vi-heads-and-pauldrons/

 

 

 

[edit: not sure why I thought they were plastic when it very clearly says resin]

 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Astartes Consul

[Slips]

Confirmed plastic (MKVI?) upgrade sets for…all legions!

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/19/heresy-thursday-trick-out-your-imperial-fists-with-bespoke-mk-vi-heads-and-pauldrons/

The heads and shoulders are resin.

 

 

Parade your loyalty to Rogal Dorn and the Emperor with this set of 10 sculpted resin Imperial Fists pauldrons. There are five designs, each with different configurations on indents on the rims, but they all proudly display the clenched, armoured fist of the Legion to strike fear into the craven hearts of the Traitor Legions. 

 

You can provide your own sartorial flair to the VII Legion with this upgrade set containing 11 detailed resin helmets, each one positively festooned with noble foliage. There are three sets each of three different knightly designs, plus one helmet with a transverse crest for your Praetors and Sergeants, and one square-jawed feller with a bare head.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Slips

[Astartes Consul]

 

Yeah just corrected that Misread it in my excitement.

Confirmed plastic (MKVI?) upgrade sets for…all legions!

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/19/heresy-thursday-trick-out-your-imperial-fists-with-bespoke-mk-vi-heads-and-pauldrons/

The heads and shoulders are resin.

Parade your loyalty to Rogal Dorn and the Emperor with this set of 10 sculpted resin Imperial Fists pauldrons. There are five designs, each with different configurations on indents on the rims, but they all proudly display the clenched, armoured fist of the Legion to strike fear into the craven hearts of the Traitor Legions.

 

 

Yeah just corrected that  Misread it in my excitement.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Astartes Consul

[JDizzle]

It is interesting that the heads are labelled as being MKVI. They don’t really look particularly MKVI-esque. Wonder if this is an indication of other MK heads way into the future. I’m sure these small upgrade kits can be bashed out really quickly in CAD - much like the weapons kits.

 

On another note, even with heresy Thursday continuing, it’ll take ages for them to get around to previewing all legion upgrade kits plus rumoured Corswain, Predators, Leviathan, Proteus etc.

[ShadowCore67]

It is interesting that the heads are labelled as being MKVI. They don’t really look particularly MKVI-esque. Wonder if this is an indication of other MK heads way into the future. I’m sure these small upgrade kits can be bashed out really quickly in CAD - much like the weapons kits.

 

On another note, even with heresy Thursday continuing, it’ll take ages for them to get around to previewing all legion upgrade kits plus rumoured Corswain, Predators, Leviathan, Proteus etc.

Heresy Thursday is probably going to continue long after the boxset is released since a lot of the kits basically confirmed to be coming in plastic won't be coming for a while.

[Spagunk]

Nice to see the bonuses to charge for Blood Angels also count even when disordered, ensures the legion rules don't get turned off from reactions, which is good. Not sure if that actually differs from the playtest any, but I like to see that be a thing for any Legion traits, would feel kind of gamey if your trait could get turned off from that.

Not quite. There are legion specific reactions that circumvent the charge and can blunt this from happening. SW get one that reacts during movement phase stuff, thus avoiding the BA's ability to charge entirely. IF get one similar to that (albeit shorter distance) while I know that Emperor's Children have a hard counter where in if you declare a charge against them, EC immediately charges before you do which means your charge is NOT successful and thus does not trigger the legion rule.

 

I have to go back through the traitor Stage 1 rules but the general theme is that anyone which favors shooting get some form of assault blunting while assault armies usually react to shooting somehow. But of course we haven't seen the full production rules so the situation is bound to be up in the air until we get full rules on everyone's unique reactions.

[sarabando]

so next we will get the SoH upgrades most likely. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

 

Nice to see the bonuses to charge for Blood Angels also count even when disordered, ensures the legion rules don't get turned off from reactions, which is good. Not sure if that actually differs from the playtest any, but I like to see that be a thing for any Legion traits, would feel kind of gamey if your trait could get turned off from that.

Not quite. There are legion specific reactions that circumvent the charge and can blunt this from happening. SW get one that reacts during movement phase stuff, thus avoiding the BA's ability to charge entirely. IF get one similar to that (albeit shorter distance) while I know that Emperor's Children have a hard counter where in if you declare a charge against them, EC immediately charges before you do which means your charge is NOT successful and thus does not trigger the legion rule.

 

I have to go back through the traitor Stage 1 rules but the general theme is that anyone which favors shooting get some form of assault blunting while assault armies usually react to shooting somehow. But of course we haven't seen the full production rules so the situation is bound to be up in the air until we get full rules on everyone's unique reactions.

 

I meant more it can't be shut down by the core reactions, which can easily impose a disordered charge.

 

The Legion specific reactions I think can only be used once per battle, so it's not quite the same as someone shutting it down with Hold the Line or whatever after stacking reaction points.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

Nice to see the bonuses to charge for Blood Angels also count even when disordered, ensures the legion rules don't get turned off from reactions, which is good. Not sure if that actually differs from the playtest any, but I like to see that be a thing for any Legion traits, would feel kind of gamey if your trait could get turned off from that.

Not quite. There are legion specific reactions that circumvent the charge and can blunt this from happening. SW get one that reacts during movement phase stuff, thus avoiding the BA's ability to charge entirely. IF get one similar to that (albeit shorter distance) while I know that Emperor's Children have a hard counter where in if you declare a charge against them, EC immediately charges before you do which means your charge is NOT successful and thus does not trigger the legion rule.

 

I have to go back through the traitor Stage 1 rules but the general theme is that anyone which favors shooting get some form of assault blunting while assault armies usually react to shooting somehow. But of course we haven't seen the full production rules so the situation is bound to be up in the air until we get full rules on everyone's unique reactions.

I think the meaning was that you couldn't use the basic charge phase reaction to shut off EC, BA, and WE (if unchanged) legion bonuses by making them disordered.

 

Edit: ninjad lol

Edited May 19, 2022 by SkimaskMohawk

[WrathOfTheLion]

Yeah, it'd suck if Horus or whatever gave you three reactions and you stole the cheese right off of Sanguinius' sandwich shutting off any BA charge bonuses with the base reaction, three times a turn.

[Spagunk]

 

 

Nice to see the bonuses to charge for Blood Angels also count even when disordered, ensures the legion rules don't get turned off from reactions, which is good. Not sure if that actually differs from the playtest any, but I like to see that be a thing for any Legion traits, would feel kind of gamey if your trait could get turned off from that.

Not quite. There are legion specific reactions that circumvent the charge and can blunt this from happening. SW get one that reacts during movement phase stuff, thus avoiding the BA's ability to charge entirely. IF get one similar to that (albeit shorter distance) while I know that Emperor's Children have a hard counter where in if you declare a charge against them, EC immediately charges before you do which means your charge is NOT successful and thus does not trigger the legion rule.

 

I have to go back through the traitor Stage 1 rules but the general theme is that anyone which favors shooting get some form of assault blunting while assault armies usually react to shooting somehow. But of course we haven't seen the full production rules so the situation is bound to be up in the air until we get full rules on everyone's unique reactions.

 

I meant more it can't be shut down by the core reactions, which can easily impose a disordered charge.

 

The Legion specific reactions I think can only be used once per battle, so it's not quite the same as someone shutting it down with Hold the Line or whatever after stacking reaction points.

 

That's still going to affect the critical charge you're building up for; which is fair since it forces you to figure a way around it. But what I am saying is that there is no guarantee that BA can get their attacks off and receive their bonus.

 

To clarify: this not a BAD nerf. But it is a nerf none the less.

[Marshal Mittens]

The new Imperial Fists kits are neat, they seem to be for folks who don't like beakies, but honestly, they are not better than heads already available from shapeways or 3D printed. Same with the pads. Random store guys had said IF/BA/SoH/WE upgrades were coming first. This is sort of disappointing.

 

As an outsider learning more, I have seen some TOC content on YouTube learning me on 30k (more a 40k person), he does seem really negative these more recent ones. But he also produces a lot of decent intro videos, so eh. I'm neutral on that channel, I just don't watch the rants.

[Marshal Rohr]

The new kit is way better than spaghetti prints. Unless you know someone with a great printer suggesting 3D prints is just edgy internet cringe. Those heads are great.