State of the Union (Heresy)

[BitsHammer]

Models without bayonets or chainswords still have a "close combat weapon" standard. It's just you can stab a lot harder with the knife on the end of a gun because it makes it more like a spear.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

Is that from the review or from the scrubbed v3 lol.

V3, but from the looks of the review the V3 core rules look to be accurate.

 

Also if you watch the GMG batrep he mentions partials count as hits which matches the V3 rules.

Well ya, I know v3 match for the most part, and that v3 doesn't use 4th rules for partials, so I was asking for the actual full rules.

 

I can see where people might misinterpret ash's explaining for current 40k players as something about partial hits having changed, but again, would like some confirmation one way or another.

[LameBeard]

 

 

Does the entire unit have to have bayonets or can you sprinkle some in?

(I never bothered to check)

"Any model with a bolter" so sprinkle away.

Sprinkling is allowed? Wow that isn’t usually the way they go. I guess this is a nice option for some. Can additional chainswords be sprinkled too? That way my World Eaters too poor for a chainaxe can have a chain-bayonet as their consolation prize. Edited May 22, 2022 by LameBeard

[Marshal Loss]

 

 

Does the entire unit have to have bayonets or can you sprinkle some in?

(I never bothered to check)

"Any model with a bolter" so sprinkle away.

Sprinkling is allowed? Wow that isn’t usually the way they go. I guess this is a nice option for some. Can additional chainswords be sprinkled too? That way my World Eaters too poor for a chainaxe can have a chain-bayonet as their consolation prize.

 

Chainswords are all or nothing.

[LameBeard]

Chainswords are all or nothing.

Then for my first unit, chainblades shall be all or nothing also! (All, obviously

 

Edit; and thanks.

Edited May 22, 2022 by LameBeard

[Lautrec the Embraced]

Puzzling stuff really. It would seem more logical to have bayonets as an 'all-or-nothing' choice, maybe, if anything, let chainswords be sprinkled in.

 

-Brother, where is your combat knife? -Sorry, sergeant, we really needed that Spartan and were 1 pts short...

 

 

 

Models without bayonets or chainswords still have a "close combat weapon" standard. It's just you can stab a lot harder with the knife on the end of a gun because it makes it more like a spear.

Sure, but it worked well with regular humans and long rifles and muskets, with a bolter and a legionaire it sounds a bit funny. Especially when you know a marine can just use bolter or pistol in one hand and hold the knife in the other. Not that I dislike bayonets, I have a few converted from combat knives. I'm just still surprised that they are a legit weapon now.

[Marshal Loss]

Puzzling stuff really. It would seem more logical to have bayonets as an 'all-or-nothing' choice, maybe, if anything, let chainswords be sprinkled in.

 

-Brother, where is your combat knife? -Sorry, sergeant, we really needed that Spartan and were 1 pts short...

Most of Forge World's (now defunct, except for this one IIRC, which still illustrates the point) bolter packs came with a mix of bayonet options. For those of us who have been playing 30k since the beginning or who have a lot of marines that used those packs, bayonet usage is often inconsistent. Make bayonets "all-or-nothing" and you'd end up invalidating a lot of tactical squads, which wouldn't be very fair given that bayonets have never had rules up until this point.

 

edit: added example

Edited May 22, 2022 by Marshal Loss

[Brofist]

Apparently the GMG review mentions/reveals that blasts now do partial hits like 4th 40k/7th fantasy.

 

Why that would be added on top of all the other nerfs to blast weapons, on top of the 5th edition scatter mechanic is a mystery to me. And something I hope was misread.

No, this is wrong. They didn't read their book correctly. It works like it works in 7th

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

Apparently the GMG review mentions/reveals that blasts now do partial hits like 4th 40k/7th fantasy.

 

Why that would be added on top of all the other nerfs to blast weapons, on top of the 5th edition scatter mechanic is a mystery to me. And something I hope was misread.

No, this is wrong. They didn't read their book correctly. It works like it works in 7th

Good to hear.

[MichaelCarmine]

Also - if the weapon stats from the 'reference-sheet' are truly the same as the full ones, then we are looking at a 4 shot lascannon array. So 8 shots Lascannon from a single Spartan... as much as i like it, i despise it. That would make abolutely no sense and other tanks pretty obsolete. Edited May 22, 2022 by MichaelCarmine

[Lautrec the Embraced]

 

Puzzling stuff really. It would seem more logical to have bayonets as an 'all-or-nothing' choice, maybe, if anything, let chainswords be sprinkled in.

 

-Brother, where is your combat knife? -Sorry, sergeant, we really needed that Spartan and were 1 pts short...

Most of Forge World's (now defunct, except for this one IIRC, which still illustrates the point) bolter packs came with a mix of bayonet options. For those of us who have been playing 30k since the beginning or who have a lot of marines that used those packs, bayonet usage is often inconsistent. Make bayonets "all-or-nothing" and you'd end up invalidating a lot of tactical squads, which wouldn't be very fair given that bayonets have never had rules up until this point.

 

edit: added example

 

Hmmm, you're right, I haven't thought about bayonets from this angle. Well, I also have a few of them, guess I will have to pay for them now. I should've magnetized them!

Edited May 22, 2022 by Lautrec the Embraced

[TheTrans]

 

Puzzling stuff really. It would seem more logical to have bayonets as an 'all-or-nothing' choice, maybe, if anything, let chainswords be sprinkled in.

 

-Brother, where is your combat knife? -Sorry, sergeant, we really needed that Spartan and were 1 pts short...

Most of Forge World's (now defunct, except for this one IIRC, which still illustrates the point) bolter packs came with a mix of bayonet options. For those of us who have been playing 30k since the beginning or who have a lot of marines that used those packs, bayonet usage is often inconsistent. Make bayonets "all-or-nothing" and you'd end up invalidating a lot of tactical squads, which wouldn't be very fair given that bayonets have never had rules up until this point.

 

edit: added example

 

Read that back a second, GW loves invalidating stuff you've already made haha. 

 

[ShadowCore67]

Also - if the weapon stats from the 'reference-sheet' are truly the same as the full ones, then we are looking at a 4 shot lascannon array. So 8 shots Lascannon from a single Spartan... as much as i like it, i despise it. That would make abolutely no sense and other tanks pretty obsolete.

To be fair, the Spartan has gone up 50 points in the new edition, and the lascannon array isn't twin-linked.

[MichaelCarmine]

 

 

Also - if the weapon stats from the 'reference-sheet' are truly the same as the full ones, then we are looking at a 4 shot lascannon array. So 8 shots Lascannon from a single Spartan... as much as i like it, i despise it. That would make abolutely no sense and other tanks pretty obsolete.

To be fair, the Spartan has gone up 50 points in the new edition, and the lascannon array isn't twin-linked.

Yeah, and it also got a Hullpoint, additional Transport Capacity, and seems to be immune to the effects of the shaken result, thanks to "Reinforced Vehicle".

50pts for that, plus 4 lascannon shots is completely out of proportion.

 

In what world is it ok for a transport to be able to kill of an entire multiwound terminator squad in one shooting face?

 

Edit:...outside of a lord of war slot.

Edited May 23, 2022 by MichaelCarmine

[Slips]

 

 

Also - if the weapon stats from the 'reference-sheet' are truly the same as the full ones, then we are looking at a 4 shot lascannon array. So 8 shots Lascannon from a single Spartan... as much as i like it, i despise it. That would make abolutely no sense and other tanks pretty obsolete.

To be fair, the Spartan has gone up 50 points in the new edition, and the lascannon array isn't twin-linked.

Yeah, and it also got a Hullpoint, additional Transport Capacity, and seems to be immune to the effects of the shaken result, thanks to "Reinforced Vehicle".

50pts for that, plus 4 lascannon shots is completely out of proportion.

 

In what world is it ok for a transport to be able to kill of an entire multiwound terminator squad in one shooting face?

 

Edit:...outside of a lord of war slot.

 

And it can still die to 1 melta shot since armored ceramite no longer exists.

[MichaelCarmine]

 

 

 

Also - if the weapon stats from the 'reference-sheet' are truly the same as the full ones, then we are looking at a 4 shot lascannon array. So 8 shots Lascannon from a single Spartan... as much as i like it, i despise it. That would make abolutely no sense and other tanks pretty obsolete.

 

To be fair, the Spartan has gone up 50 points in the new edition, and the lascannon array isn't twin-linked.

Yeah, and it also got a Hullpoint, additional Transport Capacity, and seems to be immune to the effects of the shaken result, thanks to "Reinforced Vehicle".

50pts for that, plus 4 lascannon shots is completely out of proportion.

In what world is it ok for a transport to be able to kill of an entire multiwound terminator squad in one shooting face?

Edit:...outside of a lord of war slot.

And it can still die to 1 melta shot since armored ceramite no longer exists.

Every (non LoW) vehicle can die to one meltashot, even when armored ceramite existed, thanks to Machinekiller-Vets and Meltalances... that doesn't rectivy, giving it an 8-shot lascannon!

How about, we pump up the rhino by 50pts, and give it 4 lascannons?

4 shots, synchronised, that is/was perfectly fine in my eyes.

Now? I'd consider running two with my new to be build Iron Warriors.

8 shots (minimum) str.10 against vehicles from a single heavy transport, seems perfectly fine to me xD

[MichaelCarmine]

I mean, maybe i'm a bit hysterical about that, but it just seems so... 9th edition 40k to me.

And honestly, it makes me think thrice about adding a Kratos... I mean, what's the point? 

Edit: ...other than as a volkite-delivery, which i can get much cheaper.

Edited May 23, 2022 by MichaelCarmine

[BitsHammer]

HH is the same game mode where you can take squads of 10 lascannons so I fail to see a real issue here. Especially if it becomes the meta early on everyone is just going to load for bear to drop it the second it peeks out to do anything. Plus IIRC (I am not at home with the leaks atm) there is a reaction that lets you shoot in your opponent's turn which really would let you bring the hammer down on it if it's a problem.

[Marshal Mittens]

I mean, maybe i'm a bit hysterical about that, but it just seems so... 9th edition 40k to me.

And honestly, it makes me think thrice about adding a Kratos... I mean, what's the point?

Edit: ...other than as a volkite-delivery, which i can get much cheaper.

I mean, Spartan has 8 to 10 Lascannons that ONLY fire forward. It's an extremely tough transport that wants to be dropping its termies off up close and personal, and its armed for long range anti tank or anti elite infantry fire.

 

The Kratos has a variety of options of weapons, its main gun is on a turret, and it can take so much choom.

 

Lastly, some things are going to be better than somethings at some things.

 

There are a lot of units which are not "top tier."

 

That's OK.

 

There is no prize for wrecking face every game. Or at least, none I want to win

 

Build what you like, rules change and it will have its day in the sun. Winning is not everything.

[Petitioner's City]

Edited May 23, 2022 by Petitioner's City

[Joe]

[MichaelCarmine]

HH is the same game mode where you can take squads of 10 lascannons so I fail to see a real issue here. Especially if it becomes the meta early on everyone is just going to load for bear to drop it the second it peeks out to do anything. Plus IIRC (I am not at home with the leaks atm) there is a reaction that lets you shoot in your opponent's turn which really would let you bring the hammer down on it if it's a problem.

...which will cost about 275pts. 75 less than the armor 14 Transporter, which takes up the same FOC, can't be pinned, boltered down, get stuck in CC.

I'm not asking how to get rid of it, i'm asking - why do that? Was the Spartan that bad before that? No!

 

Yes, you can indeed return fire as a reaction. Good luck, if the Spartan has a flare shield.

[MichaelCarmine]

 

I mean, maybe i'm a bit hysterical about that, but it just seems so... 9th edition 40k to me.

And honestly, it makes me think thrice about adding a Kratos... I mean, what's the point?

Edit: ...other than as a volkite-delivery, which i can get much cheaper.

I mean, Spartan has 8 to 10 Lascannons that ONLY fire forward. It's an extremely tough transport that wants to be dropping its termies off up close and personal, and its armed for long range anti tank or anti elite infantry fire.

 

The Kratos has a variety of options of weapons, its main gun is on a turret, and it can take so much choom.

 

Lastly, some things are going to be better than somethings at some things.

 

There are a lot of units which are not "top tier."

 

That's OK.

 

There is no prize for wrecking face every game. Or at least, none I want to win

 

Build what you like, rules change and it will have its day in the sun. Winning is not everything.

 

no, the Sponsons can fire in an 180 degree arc from each side, just the optional (twinlinked)lascannon in the front has to shoot from the front arc.

 

Without a doubt, but why change something in such a ridiculous way? I can't think of a tank, that can even kill a primarch in one shootingphase.

The Spartan worked fine with 4 shots Twinlinked before! Atleast i never heard enyone, including myself, complain about it.

 

I mean, i'm the only SW player i know, that runs Varagyr with swords/axes. I don't only play to win, otherwise i would play mechanicum.

[BitsHammer]

 

 

HH is the same game mode where you can take squads of 10 lascannons so I fail to see a real issue here. Especially if it becomes the meta early on everyone is just going to load for bear to drop it the second it peeks out to do anything. Plus IIRC (I am not at home with the leaks atm) there is a reaction that lets you shoot in your opponent's turn which really would let you bring the hammer down on it if it's a problem.

...which will cost about 275pts. 75 less than the armor 14 Transporter, which takes up the same FOC, can't be pinned, boltered down, get stuck in CC.

I'm not asking how to get rid of it, i'm asking - why do that? Was the Spartan that bad before that? No!

 

Yes, you can indeed return fire as a reaction. Good luck, if the Spartan has a flare shield.

Point stands: being able to bring absolute disgusting amounts of firepower is a feature, not a bug of HH. The key is the community isn't bent on building for what is the most competetive so lists tend to have a good balance of things and can present counters to a wide range of options standard.

 

Look, I get competetive 40k has gotten people wired to knee-jerk react to how "broken" something is but we're talking about a game that is almost exclusively built around narrative play, not competetive play where people tend to self-regulate a lot more as well.

 

And unlike 9th ed, that tank is working with firing arcs and an inability to split fire unless it keeps it's defensive heavy bolter. Plus an all lascannon Spartan can't overwatch because it lacks defensive weapons so is weak to melee, even if it's strong at shooting.

[Astartes Consul]

There is also Reactions to take into account here. Spartan uses those Lascanons on a target that can hurt it back and it is liable to be hit back, even if the initial target is destroyed (I think?).