State of the Union (Heresy)

[Joe]

Best legion today.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Nice color scheme I think, similar to what I was going for. The thinned contrast paint was a bit of a surprise, but I think it works.

[Marshal Mittens]

Pretty easy looking! I'm a bit too lazy to try something with so many steps, but it does look good!

[SkimaskMohawk]

Really good scheme; easy to learn, easy to do, easy to expand off of with sharper edge highlights and weathering and accent colours and all that.

 

Like some of these people just seem compulsive with their painting style. The gold backpack on yesterday's thousand son didnt need a double edge highlight, but it got it anyways, just for the sake of it.

[infyrana]

Great stuff, thank you for the image!  I've been looking to see the size comparison since I first saw it.  I'm still a little confused on the prices that have been leaked or hinted to etc.  I guess if the height is significant with the turret and extra options over the Spartan, that could give way to increased recently leaked value.

 

Still, all that choom, though the Melta might be a good stand in until (hopefully) the Caestus Ram gets a return :)

[derLumpi]

Could the turret fit on the Fellblade?

[Marshal Mittens]

I am surprised that they didn't announce a new rattle can of sea green paint for the lone and paint the Sons of Horus with that, some folks who went said the SoH minis were primed a sea green SoH color that they don't offer yet, seems like their how to paint article would use that if it was coming out.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I am surprised that they didn't announce a new rattle can of sea green paint for the lone and paint the Sons of Horus with that, some folks who went said the SoH minis were primed a sea green SoH color that they don't offer yet, seems like their how to paint article would use that if it was coming out.

Well it's not that hard to replace the mech standard grey -> SoH green with just a prime of SoH green. For Imperial Fists, would certainly be easier if yellow was coming back as well.

 

That said, perhaps they're not coming out immediately. Further, they may have just used Sons of Horus air paint to batch make them green.

[Marshal Mittens]

 

 

I am surprised that they didn't announce a new rattle can of sea green paint for the lone and paint the Sons of Horus with that, some folks who went said the SoH minis were primed a sea green SoH color that they don't offer yet, seems like their how to paint article would use that if it was coming out.

Well it's not that hard to replace the mech standard grey -> SoH green with just a prime of SoH green. For Imperial Fists, would certainly be easier if yellow was coming back as well.

 

That said, perhaps they're not coming out immediately. Further, they may have just used Sons of Horus air paint to batch make them green.

That's a good point about the model air. I have painted a single squad for my SoH but I am not sure if I should wait to see if they come out with a rattle can for them.

[Hirmetrium]

Here is some information I have collected for personal use from various places its been posted.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1093iPMORFujHRKz5c7Vls4L_0B_GQhfU5cL2L6l00RY/edit?usp=sharing

 

I have not put it to general editting to keep it resilient to... tampering. I will try to add whats in this thread if time permits. If you would like editing access, feel free to request.

 

EDIT: Sorry, I've fixed the link. Everyone can comment.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Hirmetrium

[ruralguardhipcat]

Long time Salamander modeller and collector here, but only occasional gamer. I've got a couple of Salamander characters I converted to be armed with Melta / Inferno pistols. I think in the old game there were rules to allow that (maybe swapping a Plasma Pistol?) that seem to have been dropped from 2.0? Maybe I've misremembered and it was just 'rule of cool' without rules support.

[Marshal Loss]

Massive leak dump: imgur link.

 

Will just post Horus Ascended, because...HORUS ASCENDED BABY

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Marshal Loss

[Astartes Consul]

That's a lotta photos

[SkimaskMohawk]

Lots to unpack, but things I noticed at a glance (and out of order):

 

Horus master of war only increases the reaction allotment by +1 per phase instead of giving every single unit a reaction.

 

Kontos power lance has brutal 3, so it's actually useful for something other than trading vehicles.

 

Emperor's children lost the ability to permanently be hit on 6s, and the ability to strike at ap1. But spears picked up some rending.

 

Angron makes his unit count as ws3 for the purposes of being hit. I guess that's fair considering there won't be anything to hit it back lol.

[Aeternus]

Gonna compile the NL changes from Phase 1 that I can see, may do some other legions tomorrow.

 

 

 

Reaction - specification that the NL unit doesn't suffer the normal restrictions for regrouping after use

 

 

Warmonger WLT - now changed to warlord (and any models he joins) gaining +1 to hit when targeting IC's or units including such, as well as the previous if including SoH detachment, become fearless.

 

Jadhek WLT - changed from gaining +1 to sweeping advance, to gaining counter-attack (1) with rest regarding penalties to movement and dangerous terrain tests the same.

 

Flaymaster WLT - already seen changes in article I think, but is starting at fear(1) going up to fear(3) rather than 0 up to 6

 

 

Swift Blade RoW - Only allowed one praetor now - rest must be centurions, now in addition to previous restrictions also can't take units with Bombard Sub-Type

 

Terror Assault RoW - NL player can now choose to end night fighting on turn 3 without rolling if they want, Second restriction (previously IC's had to take trophies of murder) changed to unable to take any LoW or unit with super-heavy subtype. Lost the benefit to WS when charging.

 

 

Chainblade's and glaives are 10ppm for characters who can upgrade, headsman axes are 15ppm - previously all were the same cost listed as the power weapon they were replacing

 

Escaton now 10p upgrade for characters who have a fist, previously were 25p upgrade if you could usually take a power weapon. Escaton also gained Murderous Strike (6+)

 

Trophies of Judgement now a 10p upgrade instead of a 20p upgrade

 

Can give (non-unique) IC's the 'Bloody Murder' special rule for 5p - same as before, +1 to charge and attacks if successful against pinned or falling back units

 

 

Konrad Curze - armour improved to also ignore all modifiers to movement, automatically pass dangerous terrain tests, and adds 12 to his move when running instead of initiative, lost the +1WS on psychic

 

Terror Squad - preferred enemy(infantry) is back!  up 15 points for base squad (115), up 3 more for additionals. Any model can now take chainblade's for 10ppm (in addition to option for glaive's and axes), Headsman can take serpenta, 5p. 

 

Raptor Squad - Up 35 points for base squad (185), same additionals. Now have Night Vision standard. Any model can take chainblade, glaive or twin claws (all 10ppm), or lightning claw or power weapon (5ppm). Huntmaster can take serpenta, 5p.

 

Contekar - Now count Sevatar as the squad leader when used as a retinue squad through the special rule. 

 

Sevatar - Night's Whisper is now +2s instead of +1. 

 

 

 

Believe this is all of them, though obviously may be wrong. Honestly it's a mixed bag, in my opinion. Mostly I'll mourn the loss of being able to take Curze in a Terror Assault list for larger games, especially given his LA rule gives night vision to all units which would have saved quite a bit of points, and made sure it was being used, though I do understand that with the new night fighting rules this may have made the game a bit one sided for the first few turns, at a relatively cheap level. Appreciate his armour also getting a special rule (I believe angron is the only one now without one?).

 

Main takeaway I'm glad for is the Terror Squads regaining their Preferred enemy, even if they had a points bump. I'm unconvinced that the raptor squad really needed the points increase considering it was more than what we would usually pay for night vision, and the increases to weapon costs, but they have often performed far beyond their points in the previous edition so I guess I'll see.

 

*Edit* been pointed out to me that Primarchs now constitute their own unit type instead of LoW's, so Curze in Terror Assault is back, baby!

Edited May 27, 2022 by Aeternus

[SkimaskMohawk]

Re night lords

 

The thing is that night lords are incredibly synergistic, so I can see why they'd be cautious.

 

Previously, you'd be giving non-vehicles 30 points in gear per unit, and youd be able to make units have -4 LD by bombing curze up during night, which most likely lasted for 3 turns. You add pinning from deepstrike, rotor cannons or curze's special effect and you have a whole lot of disruption.

 

Now you have to choose between most of the free gear and leadership bomb, and reliable night. Terror assault lost its +1 WS to raptors and terror marines, and still doesn't make them line, meaning it's only really giving you long-night and free fear.

 

I also see they took off the WS boost from curze's power. Pretty fair, as they seem to try and regulate primarch WS boosts to charge-only.

 

Terror marines are still nuts. Skirmish for better cover and blast diffusal, rotor cannons are additional, preferred enemy infantry, infiltrate so you can get close/outflank, and chainblades as options so you can get up to 5 attacks on the charge with +1 STR, shred, ap3, breaching 6+. Oh and they have pods baked into their dedicated transport in case you still wanted those. They're only remotely fair by being 1 wound. And costing an arm and a leg for rotor+chains at 33 points each. And no scoring.

 

Raptors are also still nuts. Skirmish, WS 5, all the night lords gear baked in, sudden strike, 2 wounds. Not scoring also really hurts them.

 

Contekar are still odd in that the other special units cover their bases, but at least the volkites off the deepstrike with sevatar can generate a lot of saves? I have no idea what the squad leader is supposed to mean; it's not in phase 3 at all. And at least they can score with pride, unlike the other two.

 

I feel like the lack of scoring on the special units and the inability to combo curze and 3 turns of night really help balance them. But still big potential for pinning frustration.

 

Also, I noticed they changed jaghatais Sire from hit and run to furious charge (1) and explicitly make it apply to him. But he already has furious charge (2) on his sword...

 

Edit: just saw the the low =/= primarchs thing and I'm now really worried. For my opponents.

 

Being able to have -4 to pinning off the deepstrike assault is going to be very unpleasant. Curze bombing pinning to everything that can see him is also going to be very unpleasant.

 

Giving your entire army the ability to ignore -1 LD+bs, shroud, and the 24" los cap for free is very unpleasant. The only silver linings are that you can still easily over-tech on anti-infantry, and have too few scoring. But at least dreads will feel the pain from the 9 shred and murderous strike 4+ attacks curze can pump out.

Edited May 27, 2022 by SkimaskMohawk

[Aeternus]

Re night lords

 

The thing is that night lords are incredibly synergistic, so I can see why they'd be cautious.

 

Previously, you'd be giving non-vehicles 30 points in gear per unit, and youd be able to make units have -4 LD by bombing curze up during night, which most likely lasted for 3 turns. You add pinning from deepstrike, rotor cannons or curze's special effect and you have a whole lot of disruption.

 

Now you have to choose between most of the free gear and leadership bomb, and reliable night. Terror assault lost its +1 WS to raptors and terror marines, and still doesn't make them line, meaning it's only really giving you long-night and free fear.

 

I also see they took off the WS boost from curze's power. Pretty fair, as they seem to try and regulate primarch WS boosts to charge-only.

 

Terror marines are still nuts. Skirmish for better cover and blast diffusal, rotor cannons are additional, preferred enemy infantry, infiltrate so you can get close/outflank, and chainblades as options so you can get up to 5 attacks on the charge with +1 STR, shred, ap3, breaching 6+. Oh and they have pods baked into their dedicated transport in case you still wanted those. They're only remotely fair by being 1 wound. And costing an arm and a leg for rotor+chains at 33 points each. And no scoring.

 

Raptors are also still nuts. Skirmish, WS 5, all the night lords gear baked in, sudden strike, 2 wounds. Not scoring also really hurts them.

 

Contekar are still odd in that the other special units cover their bases, but at least the volkites off the deepstrike with sevatar can generate a lot of saves? I have no idea what the squad leader is supposed to mean; it's not in phase 3 at all. And at least they can score with pride, unlike the other two.

 

I feel like the lack of scoring on the special units and the inability to combo curze and 3 turns of night really help balance them. But still big potential for pinning frustration.

 

Also, I noticed they changed jaghatais Sire from hit and run to furious charge (1) and explicitly make it apply to him. But he already has furious charge (2) on his sword...

 

Some good points and analysis, didn't notice the loss of the WS in terror assault or as Curze's power, must be my blind spot :P Cheers for giving it a look over, edited the list with that. 

[infyrana]

Curious why some legions have more special units or characters than others, especially given some with less had units removed.  Is there any word or rumour to knowing if they will return in a future release?  Seems such a shame to remove Traitor or Loyalist special characters that would allow the legion to have a different feel.

 

I found it funny to read the description for DG Toxin bombs - not strong enough to slay a Space Marine, yet they remove wounds.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Lots to unpack, but things I noticed at a glance (and out of order):

 

Horus master of war only increases the reaction allotment by +1 per phase instead of giving every single unit a reaction.

 

Kontos power lance has brutal 3, so it's actually useful for something other than trading vehicles.

 

Emperor's children lost the ability to permanently be hit on 6s, and the ability to strike at ap1. But spears picked up some rending.

 

Angron makes his unit count as ws3 for the purposes of being hit. I guess that's fair considering there won't be anything to hit it back lol.

It looks like general Warlord traits give you +1 during a specific phase, and then Horus' thing adds one in every phase. 

 

I'm quite glad to see that toned down a lot, think that was the biggest concern I had from the playtest rules all around.

 

May make the warlord traits seem a bit cookie cutter, but I rather they keep them reined in when it comes to the reaction increases.

[SkimaskMohawk]

All I want now is shooting reactions to be capped at 1 per turn and I probably won't have to cut the system wholesale lol.

 

@infyrana the units/characters that got cut were ones without a dedicated model/kit to build them. But, they're going to be included in an equally legal pdf. It's not like legends where it's left in limbo and discouraged, the cut units are explicitly just as valid as the liber ones.

Edited May 27, 2022 by SkimaskMohawk

[Slips]

Only change for IF I'm noticing is that Sol Gloves are S10 Ap1 all the time and lost Master-Crafted.

 

Take that, anyone with -1S to attacks to avoid ID (looking at you, SoH) from S8 and anything with 2+ W and T5, I guess.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Slips

[WrathOfTheLion]

All I want now is shooting reactions to be capped at 1 per turn and I probably won't have to cut the system wholesale lol.

 

You should be able to house rule them down to 1 per turn pretty easily.

 

For me, seeing Horus toned down is a good thing. It puts a nail in the previous statements reported here that the design team ignored any statements about Horus, they clearly found it necessary to address that rule.

 

As we can observe quite definitively that address it they did.

Edited May 28, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Marshal Loss]

While there are some big positives (loving Eidolon's new WLT), there are also a lot of disappointments in the EC ruleset for me. 3rd company elite not making Kakophoni scoring (or offering them any benefit at all) makes it feel a bit anemic and rudderless. Palatines are confirmed to lose the ability to take jump packs, and Eidolon can no longer be run without one. Skill Unmatched is far from what it was in the first playtest.

 

Mixed feelings right now. Will take time to digest

[Hirmetrium]

There's a huge amount of alpha legion to unpack, and they have significantly changed since last leak.

 

Legion Astartes trait is HUGE; your going to be messing up all sorts of interactions, charges, pistol shots, rapid fires, it's gonna be pretty horrific for your opponent. When they do pin you down, you can simply use your legion trait to re-deploy, frustrating your opponent.

 

Hydran Excursor WLT is now a +1 to hit against a legion of your choice. This is great, and can combo beautifully with...

 

Rewards of treason is now a default ability. That means you get your pick of any nasty WS5 unit to combine with the Warlord trait. You can make some real mincer units. Justerains hitting on 2+, Suzerians hitting on 2+, Siege tyrants firing at 2+ (although you need to sit your warlord in them).

 

Headhunters got BUFFED. Absolutely stacked in rules, Relentless (with heavy bolter and multi-melta, shooting and charging), BS5, Precision Shots, Preferred enemy IC, infiltrate, scout, all for 125 pts. Power Daggers are no longer specialist, so you get your +1A for CCW and Bolt Pistol, and they have sudden strike for that initial shock value and kills before hand. Free combi-weapons if you don't fancy banestrike. Combined  with the improved headhunter leviathal that has literally no downside, amazing.

 

This is topped off with some weird lerneans. WS4 means your at a disadvantage against other legion terminators, with power axes needing +15pts to upgrade to a power fist. You do keep Line, and get some sweet options in the conversion beamer and a volkite culverin (what?). Stubborn and IWND (5+) add some extra staying power. Finally you get the +1 to hit on anything, melee or ranged. They are a weird option at 250pts.

 

Venom spheres went to ASSAULT 6, poison, and both squads got them in their cost.

 

The Saboteur got an overhaul, and now just walks around the map picking a target he fancies. He can jump into a headhunter squad as the final boost, letting him use a nemesis bolter to soften targets.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Hirmetrium

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

All I want now is shooting reactions to be capped at 1 per turn and I probably won't have to cut the system wholesale lol.

 

You should be able to house rule them down to 1 per turn pretty easily.

 

For me, seeing Horus toned down is a good thing. It puts a nail in the previous statements reported here that the design team ignored any statements about Horus, they clearly found it necessary to address that rule.

 

As we can observe quite definitively that address it they did.

We'll see. It might be easier to just axe it all except for what's given by wargear.