State of the Union (Heresy)

[BitsHammer]

Well the strategy was to avoid even having to fight in combat and just charge them while they were fleeing from the shooting phase, but you can certainly fight it out on units that stayed put and try and sweep them. Bloody murder is definitely handy for either scenario, but it's still a bit risky to take some combats against really elite units like terminators. Like even with a chaplain leading 5 raptors, you'll still lose a guy to 5 power fist terminators before they run.

 

Why take the risk lol.

Because ganking people is fun?

 

I get that getting people to flee is good as well, but it's nice to have options and the army definitely lets you build a boulder out of synergies you can roll at the opponent.

[Dagoth Ur]

Can somebody explain to me what a Deep Strike Assault is? I'm trying to figure out if Crimson Paladins can use their deepstrike in Days of Sorrow or not.

 

Thanks in advance!

[StrangerOrders]

EC seem much improved in alot of ways but boy do I not appreciate two changes.

 

The first is the fact PSpears now dont have a way to get AP2 so the legion is a bit screwed for can-opening. Only somewhat mitigated by the way their legion-rule works now making their Unwieldly things have now have some chance of achieving a bit better than a mutual kill (assuming the wielder doesnt have a 3+ and gets skewered by swords first).

 

The second is the loss of Jump Packs for Palatines, I am going to go full Cato about this and not shut up about it. It not only neuters the unit's mobility (and even if they are improved in some ways, EC units need every shred of mobility to be good) but it sort of dicks over those of us that have had the Jump Pack Palatines for literally years... super salty about it lol. At least one of the nice things about 30k (or at least my group) is that people dont tend to be brutally ocd about reasonable proxies lol (even if their LoS is grotesquely swelled for no benefit now).

 

I really hope this not a harbinger of 30k falling to the 40k trashpile of 'models must only use what in the kit, no matter how janky and nonsensical the result ends up'. 

 

I like the new Mara Skara though.

Edited May 28, 2022 by StrangerOrders

[ShadowCore67]

Can somebody explain to me what a Deep Strike Assault is? I'm trying to figure out if Crimson Paladins can use their deepstrike in Days of Sorrow or not.

 

Thanks in advance!

Deep strike assault is a form of entering the board from reserves. Any unit with the deep strike rule can be a part of a deep strike assault. All units in a deep strike assault arrive at the same time.

[Dagoth Ur]

 

Can somebody explain to me what a Deep Strike Assault is? I'm trying to figure out if Crimson Paladins can use their deepstrike in Days of Sorrow or not.

 

Thanks in advance!

Deep strike assault is a form of entering the board from reserves. Any unit with the deep strike rule can be a part of a deep strike assault. All units in a deep strike assault arrive at the same time.

Thanks! One more question, if you don't mind. Is Deep Strike Assault the *only* means by which I can deep strike my unit in the new edition? Or can I deep strike *regularly* (i.e. is the Deep Strike Assault the only form of deep striking or is it a specific sub-type of deep striking that just happens to be prohibited in this RoW). Sorry, I haven't read much of the spoilered rules on account of moving and whatnot - thanks for the help though.

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's either deepstrike assault, subterranean assault (the termites), flanking assault (outflank), or normal reserves.

 

There's no getting around the day of sorrows limitation for deepstrike; you have to use fast units like speeders or bikes.

[Dagoth Ur]

It's either deepstrike assault, subterranean assault (the termites), flanking assault (outflank), or normal reserves.

 

There's no getting around the day of sorrows limitation for deepstrike; you have to use fast units like speeders or bikes.

Perfect, thanks for the clarification. That seems a bit...naff. Ah well.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

It's either deepstrike assault, subterranean assault (the termites), flanking assault (outflank), or normal reserves.

 

There's no getting around the day of sorrows limitation for deepstrike; you have to use fast units like speeders or bikes.

Perfect, thanks for the clarification. That seems a bit...naff. Ah well.

Kinda. The no reserves thing is a harsh penalty, but the bonuses seem rather huge. And at the very least, paladins don't need day of sorrows to be functional; it takes power fist terminators a round of combat to kill a model. And thats basically the paladins hard counter. The stubborn also really helps, and stops that night lords shenanigans I talked about earlier too.

[Fallen11]

 

 

Hmmm...disappointed for Lernaean Termies loosing Ws5, hopefully the defensive buffs will balance it out.

Yeah but they gain +1 to hit in ranged and melee against a legion of your choice. Could be worse - I definitely know what I'll be doing with my 10 Cataphracti.

 

Yeah, but a lot of other special units get Ws5, so they'll be hitting the Lerneans on 3+ instead of 4+, and regular dudes hits on 4+ instead of 5+. The defensive aspect of it is gone, replaced with just an offensive rule.

 

It just gets worse in multiplayer game or if you play vs non legion army, it's really terrible rule compared to just WS5...15pts for power fist,lol...even regular terminators with fists will eat them point for point in cc.

[Astartes Consul]

Just noticed Praetorian Breachers getting an option for 2-3 Legatine Axes in a ten man squad. Don't think that was in the Playtest?

[The Scorpion]

EC seem much improved in alot of ways but boy do I not appreciate two changes.

 

The first is the fact PSpears now dont have a way to get AP2 so the legion is a bit screwed for can-opening. Only somewhat mitigated by the way their legion-rule works now making their Unwieldly things have now have some chance of achieving a bit better than a mutual kill (assuming the wielder doesnt have a 3+ and gets skewered by swords first).

 

The second is the loss of Jump Packs for Palatines, I am going to go full Cato about this and not shut up about it. It not only neuters the unit's mobility (and even if they are improved in some ways, EC units need every shred of mobility to be good) but it sort of dicks over those of us that have had the Jump Pack Palatines for literally years... super salty about it lol. At least one of the nice things about 30k (or at least my group) is that people dont tend to be brutally ocd about reasonable proxies lol (even if their LoS is grotesquely swelled for no benefit now).

 

I really hope this not a harbinger of 30k falling to the 40k trashpile of 'models must only use what in the kit, no matter how janky and nonsensical the result ends up'. 

 

I like the new Mara Skara though.

The Palatines can still take power weapons and spears. 30k is holding strong... but holding nonetheless. There has indeed been a trend towards pushing options to kits only.

The one saving grace in all this is that GW is putting out upgrade kits for things like special & heavy weapons, which is an approach they should've taken long ago.

Just noticed Praetorian Breachers getting an option for 2-3 Legatine Axes in a ten man squad. Don't think that was in the Playtest?

Nope. I think it's a legit upgrade.

1 Legatine axe for every 5 dudes (not counting the sarge)

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think it's weathered the no kit/no rules thing better than 40k at least.

 

Did Deathwing Companions in terminator armor survive? Would be bizarre if not, given they had Tartaros armor in the Jonson Primarch novel.

[Noserenda]

Its weird that they have stripped Jump pack options, especially from Reavers where the iconic unit is always described using them, now they are just a slightly different veteran unit with worse options.

[SmorcInc]

EC seem much improved in alot of ways but boy do I not appreciate two changes.

 

The first is the fact PSpears now dont have a way to get AP2 so the legion is a bit screwed for can-opening. Only somewhat mitigated by the way their legion-rule works now making their Unwieldly things have now have some chance of achieving a bit better than a mutual kill (assuming the wielder doesnt have a 3+ and gets skewered by swords first).

 

\

I heard that Phoenix Terminators get access to fighting styles, an initiative 1 but ap1 stance and a "only hit me on 6s" but change their Attacks stat to 1. If true that'll let them can open.

[Astartes Consul]

Its weird that they have stripped Jump pack options, especially from Reavers where the iconic unit is always described using them, now they are just a slightly different veteran unit with worse options.

 

I'm sort of assuming the SoH Exemplary Battles unit will be 'Catulan Reavers' aka. Reavers with Jump Packs and some special rules.

[Marshal Loss]

 

EC seem much improved in alot of ways but boy do I not appreciate two changes.

 

The first is the fact PSpears now dont have a way to get AP2 so the legion is a bit screwed for can-opening. Only somewhat mitigated by the way their legion-rule works now making their Unwieldly things have now have some chance of achieving a bit better than a mutual kill (assuming the wielder doesnt have a 3+ and gets skewered by swords first).

 

\

I heard that Phoenix Terminators get access to fighting styles, an initiative 1 but ap1 stance and a "only hit me on 6s" but change their Attacks stat to 1. If true that'll let them can open.

 

Not anymore:

 

[The Scorpion]

I like the new Skill Unmatched. I wish more units had it.

[JDizzle]

I like the new Skill Unmatched. I wish more units had it.

I certainly like the new "Perfect Guard" being a little less all or nothing than "Perfect Defense" was, but trading weapon skill for attacks and vice versa seems a little redundant. Overall, I think Skill Unmatched is fine but if Palatine Blades can't take jump packs, command squads won't get that rule anyway.

[ChargingSoll]

Deathshroud terminators have 3 wounds and battle hardened. Add a character with toxin bombs then they would melt any non +2 save unit that charges them.

[ShadowCore67]

Thought you guys would appreciate this, someone on Reddit organized all the book images by legion:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer30k/comments/v01g31/all_legions_rules_organized_as_guilliman_would/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Edited May 29, 2022 by ShadowCore67

[Slips]

IDK how I had missed Primarchs now having LA: (X) and thus now benefit from those rules. Huh, neat. Can be a nifty depending on Legion.

[BitsHammer]

IDK how I had missed Primarchs now having LA: (X) and thus now benefit from those rules. Huh, neat. Can be a nifty depending on Legion.

So if I understand: Curze benefits from A Talent For Murder and because he's a Primarch he has Bulky(4) and counts as 4 models when shooting or fighting?

[Slips]

 

IDK how I had missed Primarchs now having LA: (X) and thus now benefit from those rules. Huh, neat. Can be a nifty depending on Legion.

So if I understand: Curze benefits from A Talent For Murder and because he's a Primarch he has Bulky(4) and counts as 4 models when shooting or fighting?

 

Yes.

 

And youre shooting toughness 7 Ferrus Manus at -1S.

[Cris R]

 

 

IDK how I had missed Primarchs now having LA: (X) and thus now benefit from those rules. Huh, neat. Can be a nifty depending on Legion.

So if I understand: Curze benefits from A Talent For Murder and because he's a Primarch he has Bulky(4) and counts as 4 models when shooting or fighting?

 

Yes.

 

And youre shooting toughness 7 Ferrus Manus at -1S.

 

 

Sanguinius is now getting +1 to wound on the charge. That'll be nasty.

[Scammel]

Bloody hilarious that Sigismund appears unchanged from his playtest version. Terra Blacksword Massacre, here we go.