Snaggas and the future of 40k

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Primarchs aren't the point there, there are other examples like the Silent King and the Triumph of Saint Katherine, I just didn't want to enumerate all of them.

 

Having those centerpiece models is visually appealing, they make for an excellent composition.

for marines it is the point, because GW could have just given people like calgar, and dante that sort of treatment rather than bringing back primarchs imo

[Sarvis]

As far as the lack of primarch for some chapters goes, they could easily redo the sanguinor to a primarch-esque model.

[jaxom]

 

Primarchs aren't the point there, there are other examples like the Silent King and the Triumph of Saint Katherine, I just didn't want to enumerate all of them.

 

Having those centerpiece models is visually appealing, they make for an excellent composition.

for marines it is the point, because GW could have just given people like calgar, and dante that sort of treatment rather than bringing back primarchs imo

 

 

It's difficult to compare Chapter Master models to the Silent King and ToSK. They lack the scale and gravitas to be on the same level (compare Calgar to Roboute and Abaddon, warning: large image

), but they're not small enough in scale and gravitas to make sense as part of a squad-as-model. 

 

Artificially increasing their size, like Logan Grimnar on his sled, might have been possible.

[gaurdian31]

Every faction will get a center piece. Just because it isn't a Primarch doesn't make it worse or better. 

[ThePenitentOne]

Okay, so this isn't so much about the Beast Snagga part of OP; it's about the Future of the Game part of OP.

 

When the Admech dex hits, 3/4 of the factions in the BoR will have dexes. I'm wondering about the 4th- Knights.

 

It seems to me that the model is campaign books add supplements and and Armies of Renown for the factions they feature as a 2nd round to their 9th codex.

If so, that would mean Knights after Admech.

 

Then we would be ready with 4 new factions in Charadon Act 2, which would provide our Codex map for the next four factions. Orks and Sisters look to be 2 of those 4. As for the other 2, no solid info or previews to go on... But  there's a lot of Chaos on the Sisters stained glass, and Be'Lakor is 3 AoS books away (ie. the Teclis one that drops this weekend, then one more BEFORE Be'Lakor). Whenever Be'Lakor drops, Chaos Daemons will get their 40k dex. That means Daemons could be the last faction in Charadon Act 2  or one of the first in Charadon Act 3.

 

I think there will only be 4 Charadon books- one per quarter- so that GW can do a new campaign next year to support the release of dexes for anyone left over. I don't think any of the Charadon books will have new datasheets- they'll just have supplements and AoR. The second round of campaign books, however, might have new datasheets, because most Codexes will be out by the time that campaign starts; GW needs to keep making models, and datasheets have to go somewhere.

 

Then in the following year, GW has some decision making to do.

 

By then, if the pattern holds, every faction will have at least one supplement and at least one AoR and many will also have a new unit or two; I suspect two armies (CWE and Guard) will get large range refreshes this ed. Which means it will almost be time to start thinking about dex updates. Now usually, GW does an edition reset to facilitate dex reprints. But here's the kicker: they don't have to. They tried to just release a remade dex for marines in 8th without an ed reset... but the changes were drastic enough to break the game, so they defaulted to the edition reset strategy. This time though...

 

I'd rather they just keep running campaigns; keep building AoR's and sub-faction supplements- after all, if you DO want to move to a model where ALL factions are for real dex+ supplement, you first have to build up enough supplemental material for factions that aren't there yet. And 9th could be the edition they use to do that.

 

If enough development happens over the course of the edition, I would buy a 2.0 dex for 9th with much more enthusiasm than I would have for a 10th edition, which would do nothing but fill me with dread and anxiety. It's cool too for people who run multiple armies, because we would probably only want the 2.0 for our main; I'll buy almost anything for Sisters and DE, but I'd probably be content to run Deathwatch and CSM on 1.0 because they are very much secondary armies for me. Daemons and GSC fall between primary and secondary, so that if new content is good enough, they may move into the same category as DE and Sisters, and if it isn't, they stay with Deathwatch and CSM.

 

That way we wouldn't need to rebuild all the 9th ed Crusade content, the AoR or the new supplemental generated in 9th.

 

Heck, if GW was skillful about it, (and they are getting closer) they wouldn't even need a hard shift to 10th Edition in order to sell EVERYONE the dex + supplements format. It's just a matter of letting an edition last long enough to develop enough material that we need a 2nd dex and don't just see it as a gimmick for sales.

 

If you can release a huge vs box with 5 new units for 2 factions each, rerelease Codices that collect all the previously accumulated information AND maintain a quarterly campaign book cycle, why do you need an edition reset? And if they do get us to Codex + Supplement, well gee... the books never need to stop- we've got 20 factions with a minimum of five subfactions each- that's four years of books, even at 2/ month.

Edited March 22, 2021 by ThePenitentOne

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

As far as the lack of primarch for some chapters goes, they could easily redo the sanguinor to a primarch-esque model.

i agree, but that's not the same as having sanguinius, and then for a large portion of players that requires a fluff explanation...etc.

 

 

Primarchs aren't the point there, there are other examples like the Silent King and the Triumph of Saint Katherine, I just didn't want to enumerate all of them.

 

Having those centerpiece models is visually appealing, they make for an excellent composition.

for marines it is the point, because GW could have just given people like calgar, and dante that sort of treatment rather than bringing back primarchs imo

 

 

It's difficult to compare Chapter Master models to the Silent King and ToSK. They lack the scale and gravitas to be on the same level (compare Calgar to Roboute and Abaddon, warning: large image

), but they're not small enough in scale and gravitas to make sense as part of a squad-as-model. 

 

Artificially increasing their size, like Logan Grimnar on his sled, might have been possible.

 

ya some sort of throne, or something is what i was thinking with a slight increase in overall size, but why is abbadon so damn big? why is he borderline primarch size? he was literally just a captain during the heresy....

[Marshal Loss]

Be'Lakor is 3 AoS books away (ie. the Teclis one that drops this weekend, then one more BEFORE Be'Lakor).

That's not true, his book will directly follow BR: Teclis.

 

 

 

What’s more, his latest masterplan is about to be played out in the next stage of the Broken Realms saga – check out the cover of the third book in the series.

[Slave to Darkness]

 

Yea, people seem to so easily forget about Land Raiders. And titans. I guess as everything else got bigger, these once centrepiece models lost their lustre. I think what we're really seeing, in both systems, is model making technology allowing bigger and more detailed models than before, so while a 4" high greater daemon used to be one of the largest models available for fantasy/40k, and would be an imposing centrepiece all the way up to 5th ed, things like knights and the normal plastic giant/gargant exist. What we're seeing is a gradual upscaling. 

 

Absolutely this. And the more I think on it, the more absolutely bonkers it seems to me that people are claiming big centrepiece kits is an AoS thing that's bleeding in to 40k, as if Warhammer Fantasy didn't have Dragons and Giants, and 40k didn't have Dreadknights, Riptides, Wraithknights, Stompas, Baneblades (not to mention Forgeworld Greater Daemons and Superheavies) long before AoS was so much as a twinkle in GW's eye.

 

Thats the good thing about me starting 1st ed again, I know the biggest thing I will see is a Land Raider or a Dreadnought. The true lords of the tabletop. :wub:

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Every faction will get a center piece. Just because it isn't a Primarch doesn't make it worse or better. 

for marines giving BA a centerpiece model that is on par with a primarch won't make much sense from a lore perspective...if this was a game with little established lore like in 2nd or even 3rd, that might work, but we now have 30 years of lore that would say such a thing wouldn't make sense.

 

a super buffed sanguinor needs a damn good lore explanation why he's equal to girlyman in combat abilities, and that lore needs to be good enough to satisfy the majority of BA players/fans, while ensuring the rules are indeed comparable...

[Slave to Darkness]

 

As far as the lack of primarch for some chapters goes, they could easily redo the sanguinor to a primarch-esque model.

i agree, but that's not the same as having sanguinius, and then for a large portion of players that requires a fluff explanation...etc.

 

 

Primarchs aren't the point there, there are other examples like the Silent King and the Triumph of Saint Katherine, I just didn't want to enumerate all of them.

 

Having those centerpiece models is visually appealing, they make for an excellent composition.

for marines it is the point, because GW could have just given people like calgar, and dante that sort of treatment rather than bringing back primarchs imo

 

 

It's difficult to compare Chapter Master models to the Silent King and ToSK. They lack the scale and gravitas to be on the same level (compare Calgar to Roboute and Abaddon, warning: large image

), but they're not small enough in scale and gravitas to make sense as part of a squad-as-model. 

 

Artificially increasing their size, like Logan Grimnar on his sled, might have been possible.

 

ya some sort of throne, or something is what i was thinking with a slight increase in overall size, but why is abbadon so damn big? why is he borderline primarch size? he was literally just a captain during the heresy....

 

A Captain who has the blessings of all 4 Chaos Gods and has lived in the warp for ten thousand years. He is literally jacked up on warp steroids. 

[gaurdian31]

 

Every faction will get a center piece. Just because it isn't a Primarch doesn't make it worse or better. 

for marines giving BA a centerpiece model that is on par with a primarch won't make much sense from a lore perspective...if this was a game with little established lore like in 2nd or even 3rd, that might work, but we now have 30 years of lore that would say such a thing wouldn't make sense.

 

a super buffed sanguinor needs a damn good lore explanation why he's equal to girlyman in combat abilities, and that lore needs to be good enough to satisfy the majority of BA players/fans, while ensuring the rules are indeed comparable...

 

 

The Sangunior flies around in the warp without being corrupted by it, he may be a manifestation of Sanguinius' will and also there is Mephiston. Dude smacks around bloodthirsters for fun in the BL books, just give him a bigger base and some blood wings to have him float. There, 2 models on par with a Primarch, already have fluff explanations as to why they are so awesome and can be put on cool big bases.

[Ryltar Thamior]

As applies the point somebody had made around the perceived introduction of 'mini-diorama' / large-centerpiece models to 40k as being a sign of AoS influence ...

I'm not sure that I agree with that. I think it's more likely, if anything, Forgeworld influence (specifically - 30k). By which I mean - 40k has long had big expensive powerful named character that comes on a diorama-esque display base kits. It's just they've been in resin rather than plastic. 

Primarch miniatures did rather surprisingly well for the FW resin 30k range , and have really been a powerful hype and gravitas generator for the ranges they're part of. They have a dramatic rules impact, and a similarly dramatic visual impact as well - which in both cases justifies a rather dramatic *wallet* impact. Especially if somebody decides they like one well enough to start a(nother) force around him when he comes out. 

So instead of GW looking at how its extra-hero-hammer AoS had been going and thinking "Let's replicate that template in 40k" (which would have been .. an *odd* decision given how various of the big AoS kits *didn't* have this impact - the Magmadroth probably being exhibit A) .. I posit that they saw what was happening over at FW with its 30k range and just did that in plastic and ten thousand years in the future, and for a broader array of factions than just Marines.

But also for Marines ... because as it turns out, the 30k model involves selling the same basic units (Line infantry; heavy infantry; various vehicles) in multiple uniform  configurations (i.e. your line infantry is either the bolter-bearing, special weapon bearing, or close assault bearing kind; no mixing inside the units - so you need multiple different varieties of the same unit on the field to do different things), and then making up for the uniformity of all that grey plastic ceramite by *also* dangling legion chapter upgrade kits which give you some iconic looking helms, chapter icon pads, etc. for an additional premium. (and a delicately interwoven network of upgrade kits and other kits required to get all the bitz to actually take advantage of the steadily increasing codex options for a given squad, its sergeant etc.)

Oh, and every chapter gets a praetor lieutenant .

This is rather amusing now that I think about it. 

I recall many of us had said we wanted 40k to be more like 30k - for various reasons ... and, well .. it looks like some of us got our wish ! 

[jaxom]

 

 

Yea, people seem to so easily forget about Land Raiders. And titans. I guess as everything else got bigger, these once centrepiece models lost their lustre. I think what we're really seeing, in both systems, is model making technology allowing bigger and more detailed models than before, so while a 4" high greater daemon used to be one of the largest models available for fantasy/40k, and would be an imposing centrepiece all the way up to 5th ed, things like knights and the normal plastic giant/gargant exist. What we're seeing is a gradual upscaling. 

 

Absolutely this. And the more I think on it, the more absolutely bonkers it seems to me that people are claiming big centrepiece kits is an AoS thing that's bleeding in to 40k, as if Warhammer Fantasy didn't have Dragons and Giants, and 40k didn't have Dreadknights, Riptides, Wraithknights, Stompas, Baneblades (not to mention Forgeworld Greater Daemons and Superheavies) long before AoS was so much as a twinkle in GW's eye.

 

Thats the good thing about me starting 1st ed again, I know the biggest thing I will see is a Land Raider or a Dreadnought. The true lords of the tabletop.

 

 

I know, right? Why don't things like the Dreadknight or Valkyrie (which is a gigantic model) have the same centerpiece credit? The Contemptor and Leviathan dreadnoughts have a bit more of it. I think it all comes down to character. Centerpiece models have character, they emote, they make you want to know more about them.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

 

 

Every faction will get a center piece. Just because it isn't a Primarch doesn't make it worse or better.

for marines giving BA a centerpiece model that is on par with a primarch won't make much sense from a lore perspective...if this was a game with little established lore like in 2nd or even 3rd, that might work, but we now have 30 years of lore that would say such a thing wouldn't make sense.

 

a super buffed sanguinor needs a damn good lore explanation why he's equal to girlyman in combat abilities, and that lore needs to be good enough to satisfy the majority of BA players/fans, while ensuring the rules are indeed comparable...

The Sangunior flies around in the warp without being corrupted by it, he may be a manifestation of Sanguinius' will and also there is Mephiston. Dude smacks around bloodthirsters for fun in the BL books, just give him a bigger base and some blood wings to have him float. There, 2 models on par with a Primarch, already have fluff explanations as to why they are so awesome and can be put on cool big bases.

killing a bloodthirster doesn't make someone an equal to a primarch...

[Gederas]

 

 

As far as the lack of primarch for some chapters goes, they could easily redo the sanguinor to a primarch-esque model.

i agree, but that's not the same as having sanguinius, and then for a large portion of players that requires a fluff explanation...etc.

 

 

Primarchs aren't the point there, there are other examples like the Silent King and the Triumph of Saint Katherine, I just didn't want to enumerate all of them.

 

Having those centerpiece models is visually appealing, they make for an excellent composition.

for marines it is the point, because GW could have just given people like calgar, and dante that sort of treatment rather than bringing back primarchs imo

 

 

It's difficult to compare Chapter Master models to the Silent King and ToSK. They lack the scale and gravitas to be on the same level (compare Calgar to Roboute and Abaddon, warning: large image

), but they're not small enough in scale and gravitas to make sense as part of a squad-as-model. 

 

Artificially increasing their size, like Logan Grimnar on his sled, might have been possible.

ya some sort of throne, or something is what i was thinking with a slight increase in overall size, but why is abbadon so damn big? why is he borderline primarch size? he was literally just a captain during the heresy....

A Captain who has the blessings of all 4 Chaos Gods and has lived in the warp for ten thousand years. He is literally jacked up on warp steroids.

It's also heavily implied that Abaddon is an actual gene-clone of Horus, as the fluff always mentioned him being unusually large, even by Astartes standards.

[Bryan Blaire]

Range refreshes have been going on for a long while - if that’s even part of your “AoS treatment” definition, then it’s been going on before AoS even got dreamed up, so it hardly fits as a definition, unless it’s a circular self-defining one: “It must be this because this is what happens when this happens.”

 

It’s also only sensible that a company that sells models that gets better technology to make better models then actually makes better models.

 

Virtually none of the rules changes are that wild, and have been clear progressions from previous rules, including the reincorporation of rules from old editions, like Overwatch, etc.  The only thing that is a drastic difference from previous editions of 40K has been the dropping of vehicle facings and armor values.

 

Also, almost none of the lore changes to the setting are that spectacular - the first Primarch back isn’t the one that I would have preferred, and obviously it was contrived (because it has to be since its a fictional setting), but a still living Primarch isn’t unprecedented - there were numerous GW could have brought back.  Daemon Primarchs isn’t even a change to the setting, nor is their activity in the setting - if anything, all their presence proves is that 40K has been Epic’d.  The Silent King was a rumored thing, so it’s not at all shocking that he came back.

 

Yes, there’s a Cicatrix Maledictum, and that’s a big development - and yet that hasn’t changed as much as it really should have - so setting impact? Doesn’t seem to be near as large as it really should have - I really wish we’d have been shown more impact than we have so far.

 

The world that was blown up - Cadia?

 

Cadia had been lost back in 2003, so about the only thing that was larger than then was Cadia actually blowing up.  That event didn’t even erase the Cadian IG sub-faction.

 

None of the factions have been as wholly changed as the AoS factions have.

 

For all the “massive changes”, there haven’t been a ton of overall changes like there were from WHFB to AoS.  The nature of the narrative for the 40K setting has changed, and truthfully, that’s about the largest change.

 

(And the loss of vehicle facings/armor values - I can tolerate the new system, but this is one of the few things I’d really like to see make it’s way back)

 

If there’s any argument that can be made, it’s that WHFB was 40K’ified, and there’s been some limited bleed back from the resulting setting to it’s original change inducer.  That’s hardly 40K being “AoS’d” under a definition that’s not even really supportable (especially as more drastic things have happened before).

[MegaVolt87]

 

 

 

Every faction will get a center piece. Just because it isn't a Primarch doesn't make it worse or better.

for marines giving BA a centerpiece model that is on par with a primarch won't make much sense from a lore perspective...if this was a game with little established lore like in 2nd or even 3rd, that might work, but we now have 30 years of lore that would say such a thing wouldn't make sense.

 

a super buffed sanguinor needs a damn good lore explanation why he's equal to girlyman in combat abilities, and that lore needs to be good enough to satisfy the majority of BA players/fans, while ensuring the rules are indeed comparable...

The Sangunior flies around in the warp without being corrupted by it, he may be a manifestation of Sanguinius' will and also there is Mephiston. Dude smacks around bloodthirsters for fun in the BL books, just give him a bigger base and some blood wings to have him float. There, 2 models on par with a Primarch, already have fluff explanations as to why they are so awesome and can be put on cool big bases.

killing a bloodthirster doesn't make someone an equal to a primarch...

 

 

Greater demon killing is a primarch feat. Anyone else who can manage that is definitely someone/ something noteworthy. Also the primarchs themselves were as much products of the warp as science, so warp stando powa Mephy and Sanguinor as they are now via recent BL works close the gap enough quite effectively. Sanguinius, Horus, Ferrus, Konrad and Alpharius/Omegon should definitely not return, should stay dead otherwise 30k as a setting is completely pointless and 40k becomes a caricature if any of those primarchs show up. Same with the Emperor and Malcador. I'll go one further and say the only demon prince primarchs that should come back are Angorn and Fulgrim. So, I expect only another 2-3 loyalist primarchs to return as well.  Want your desired primarch? 30k that way. >>> 

 

Edit- forgot Konrad... 

Edited March 22, 2021 by MegaVolt87

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

 

 

 

Every faction will get a center piece. Just because it isn't a Primarch doesn't make it worse or better.

for marines giving BA a centerpiece model that is on par with a primarch won't make much sense from a lore perspective...if this was a game with little established lore like in 2nd or even 3rd, that might work, but we now have 30 years of lore that would say such a thing wouldn't make sense.

 

a super buffed sanguinor needs a damn good lore explanation why he's equal to girlyman in combat abilities, and that lore needs to be good enough to satisfy the majority of BA players/fans, while ensuring the rules are indeed comparable...

The Sangunior flies around in the warp without being corrupted by it, he may be a manifestation of Sanguinius' will and also there is Mephiston. Dude smacks around bloodthirsters for fun in the BL books, just give him a bigger base and some blood wings to have him float. There, 2 models on par with a Primarch, already have fluff explanations as to why they are so awesome and can be put on cool big bases.

killing a bloodthirster doesn't make someone an equal to a primarch...

Greater demon killing is a primarch feat. Anyone else who can manage that is definitely someone/ something noteworthy. Also the primarchs themselves were as much products of the warp as science, so warp stando powa Mephy and Sanguinor as they are now via recent BL works close the gap enough quite effectively. Sanguinius, Horus, Ferrus, Konrad and Alpharius/Omegon should definitely not return, should stay dead otherwise 30k as a setting is completely pointless and 40k becomes a caricature if any of those primarchs show up. Same with the Emperor and Malcador. I'll go one further and say the only demon prince primarchs that should come back are Angorn and Fulgrim. So, I expect only another 2-3 loyalist primarchs to return as well. Want your desired primarch? 30k that way. >>>

 

Edit- forgot Konrad...

I didn't say killing a greater demon wasn't a noteworthy feat, but that's not something only a primarch can do.

Inquisitors have killed greater demons. It simply isn't a feat worthy of putting someone on the level of a primarch.

[Lexington]

For all the “massive changes”, there haven’t been a ton of overall changes like there were from WHFB to AoS.  The nature of the narrative for the 40K setting has changed, and truthfully, that’s about the largest change.

 

As far as the background's concerned, I'd say that change in the nature of 40K's narrative is as big of a shift as AoS was to WHFB. It's a pretty enormous change in the structure of the setting. From a narrative structure standpoint, 40K ended just as much as the Warhammer World did.

[ThePenitentOne]

I see what you're driving at- the change is big enough that it is a metaphorical end of 40k... ie. an end to 40k as you knew it.

 

I don't know a lot about WHFB and the world that was, nor do I know a lot about AoS, but I thought in that game the actual world literally blew up and all that's left are these planes or whatever.

 

A lot has changed in 40k, for sure; the return of Guilliman does put a whole new feel to the setting. But Terra's still there. Baal is still there. The armies that existed at the end of 7th continued to exist in the exact same form in 8th. I don't think you can say that's the same as what happened between the Old World and AoS, even if it's a workable metaphor for enormous changes in the atmosphere and direction of the game.

[Bryan Blaire]

As far as the background's concerned, I'd say that change in the nature of 40K's narrative is as big of a shift as AoS was to WHFB. It's a pretty enormous change in the structure of the setting. From a narrative structure standpoint, 40K ended just as much as the Warhammer World did.

Except that as you pointed out, it’s a change in the narrative structure, not the setting itself.  The setting is not changed for 40K like it was from WHFB to AoS.  Sadly, the Cicatrix Maledictum didn’t do as much to the Imperium as it really should have (not that I can say why - maybe it did and GW just didn’t show it well enough so far).

 

The setting of 40K didn’t end.  The setting of WHFB did.  The game of Warhammer 40K didn’t end.  The game of WHFB did.

 

Again, it’s a matter of your perspective.  For me, the static nature of 40K pre-Cadian resolution was not important, if anything, it was a hindrance to the game because any time GW wanted to actually do something, like add a unit, people tended to freak out.  Playing narrative games in a static historical setting and playing narrative games in a somewhat forward progressing setting is unchanged, the only thing changed is when your narratives occur (which is at the players’ choice when they decide on the what, when, where, and who for the game).

 

If your appreciation of 40K revolved around it being a static setting, then yes, I can see the change seeming drastic - it’s not, but I could see if that was your perspective why it would feel that way - if you only wanted an end to everything at 42.000 or whatever, then yes, we’re slightly past that and the end hasn’t come yet.  However, 40K can still be played as a historical setting, just as much as it can be played in the current era - exactly like it could before the Gathering Storm - you don’t have to play with any of the “Era Indomitus” stuff if what you want to play is pre-Indomitus.  So it still isn’t that different from before.

[Sarvis]

 

 

As far as the lack of primarch for some chapters goes, they could easily redo the sanguinor to a primarch-esque model.

i agree, but that's not the same as having sanguinius, and then for a large portion of players that requires a fluff explanation...etc.

 

 

 

 

Primarchs aren't the point there, there are other examples like the Silent King and the Triumph of Saint Katherine, I just didn't want to enumerate all of them.

 

Having those centerpiece models is visually appealing, they make for an excellent composition.

for marines it is the point, because GW could have just given people like calgar, and dante that sort of treatment rather than bringing back primarchs imo

It's difficult to compare Chapter Master models to the Silent King and ToSK. They lack the scale and gravitas to be on the same level (compare Calgar to Roboute and Abaddon, warning: large image

), but they're not small enough in scale and gravitas to make sense as part of a squad-as-model.

 

Artificially increasing their size, like Logan Grimnar on his sled, might have been possible.

ya some sort of throne, or something is what i was thinking with a slight increase in overall size, but why is abbadon so damn big? why is he borderline primarch size? he was literally just a captain during the heresy....

 

Because.... chaos! You’re right he is big. Not quite as big as guilliman, but way larger than the new chaos terminators. He was always a big dude in the lore, I bet gw chalk it up as, him being the warmaster with the strength of chaos undivided has made him a big boi.

[Sarvis]

 

 

Every faction will get a center piece. Just because it isn't a Primarch doesn't make it worse or better.

for marines giving BA a centerpiece model that is on par with a primarch won't make much sense from a lore perspective...if this was a game with little established lore like in 2nd or even 3rd, that might work, but we now have 30 years of lore that would say such a thing wouldn't make sense.

 

a super buffed sanguinor needs a damn good lore explanation why he's equal to girlyman in combat abilities, and that lore needs to be good enough to satisfy the majority of BA players/fans, while ensuring the rules are indeed comparable...

The sanguinor is rumored to be the spirit/soul of samguinius

[MegaVolt87]

 

I didn't say killing a greater demon wasn't a noteworthy feat, but that's not something only a primarch can do.

Inquisitors have killed greater demons. It simply isn't a feat worthy of putting someone on the level of a primarch.

 

 

Except the primarchs are meant to have few equals. An inquisitor isn't killing Kha'banda the same as Sangy did at Signus. It may be the same outcome- greater demon killing, the method is completely different. That is what separates the power tiers, the method that achieves similar outcomes. Question- why does everyone need a demi god in their faction? Its perfectly fine for that not to happen for everyone. Characters like Mephy can be buffed a bit to close such a gap, there needs to be no real equality to a primarch necessarily. Hero hammer plagues the game, named characters have either sucked or been OP as it should be. Unpopular opinion- named characters should only be in narrative play, not matched for real game balance. 

[ThePenitentOne]

 

Be'Lakor is 3 AoS books away (ie. the Teclis one that drops this weekend, then one more BEFORE Be'Lakor).

That's not true, his book will directly follow BR: Teclis.

 

 

 

What’s more, his latest masterplan is about to be played out in the next stage of the Broken Realms saga – check out the cover of the third book in the series.

 

 My bad- I thought I heard Adam on the preview say there was one more. Guess not.

 

Well, there's our third faction for Charadon Act 2.