Tips for fighting dark angels

[TheUnlikelyGamer84]

I have a game vs dark angels this week. I was thinking death by a thousand cuts since deathwing knights are only wounded by 4s. I could bring lots of lightning claws and chainswords. I plan on playing a successor wolf chapter with whirlwind of rage for double exploding 6s in assault doctrine when combined with savage fury. Bestial rage and instinct awoken will help me get there before turn 3.

 

Any tips on dealing with DA?

[Gederas]

Well, your first issue is trying to fight Dark Angels in melee. :lol: They're not a gunline army anymore, they're a counter-charge army.

 

You can try it, but you NEED to make sure you kill them before they can fight back. Because if they do.... You're going to experience pain

[TheUnlikelyGamer84]

so I need a lot of shooting then? I don’t typically use much shooting. Edited March 24, 2021 by TheUnlikelyGamer84

[Gederas]

It really all depends. If you know beforehand your opponent is playing Mono-wing (Deathwing, Ravenwing or Greenwing) or mixed really determines your course of action.

 

Mono-Deathwing? Play the objective game and avoid direct melee. Ironically, Deathwing melee is worse when charging, as the Chapter Tactic requires them to stay stationary. So if you get them to charge you, it's better for you because they're not getting the +1 to hit.

 

Ravenwing is annoying to deal with because of it's speed, and the fact that Bikes are actually pretty tough makes them aggravating, but you can outnumber Ravenwing as easily as Deathwing.

 

Greenwing.... It's basically Just Marines who shoot/punch better when staying still and don't break from Morale :lol:

A mixed army is when you REALLY need to worry, because when the pieces of the puzzle of the Dark Angels army fit together is when they shine. Because what one lacks, the other two make up for.

[ValourousHeart]

Long time DA player here.

 

Don't be fooled by the idea that the DA super doctrine is active all game long.

 

It is only active for certain units during certain turns.  So it lacks the devastating impact that your entire army turning on at once has.

 

It means that if they field a 3 wing army, each section of the army will have time to shine during the game.  It also means that if they field a mono-wing army, it will function similarly to any other marine chapter.

 

A thing to watch out for is that DA has more ways to change which doctrine is in effect than any other chapter.  But this will be very limited on how many units are affected.

 

The problem with the 3 wing army is that it is hard to make an army effective when suffering from ADD.  At 2000 points is really the first time you can field enough of 2 wings to have an effective force with enough points left over to field a unit of the 3rd wing, to say you did.

 

If you don't believe me, then consider this experiment.

 

Build 3 different themed 500 point armies for Space Wolves that would be effective in a 500 point game.  Make the 3 themes very distinct from one another so that no model appears in multiple lists.  Play as many games as you want with each 500 point list until you are satisfied that you have made that theme as strong as possible for a 500 point game.

 

Then put the three 500 points lists onto the table and play a 1500 point game.  Would those 3 lists combined make a good 1500 point list?  All signs point to NO.

 

That is exactly what DA players are trying to do with a 3 wing list.

[TheUnlikelyGamer84]

Ok. I believe this opponent is taking DA and admech. So they dont get their super doctrine? Is their super doctrine the stationary +1 to hit? Edited March 24, 2021 by TheUnlikelyGamer84

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

They don't get doctrines at all if they take non-marine allies, that said their super doctrine is split up into three parts for the different wings described above. It's kinda difficult to give advice for a combination like that because of how flexible DA are in the first place. I would just concentrate on the primary objective.

[lonewolf81]

Warning!!! Wall of text inbound!!!

I play spacewolves for many editions now. Almost all of the wolf lists I see in battle report videos online focus mainly on the assault element and nothing else. The most efficient/fun way to play wolves is as a shooty/counter assault army (my opinion). My favourite units that I always use and will be good in your case
1. Eradicators. At least one squad with heavy melta/multi-melta, they arrive by outflank, preferably in a reroll 1s bubble and get keen senses.

2. WG terminators all with combi-weapons(I prefer plasma) and a mix of shields and melee weapons. They always get fury of the first and they must drop in a reroll 1s bubble and within 12 for extra shoots. They are very durable and killy for the points.

3.Runepriest with jumpack, rites of
battle, armour of russ, psychic fortress and nullzone. This guys buffs your main moving force (Castle) with 5+inv and can heroicly intervene 6" to a nasty charger making him fight last. Nullzone is there as a fear factor to suicide sling shot him next to a nasty enemy (try to choose a battle you can win without loosing the priest) with inv saves and bring it down with the rest of your army if needed. Basicaly you either use smite+psychic fortress or smite+nullzone.An alternative build for the priest is storm caller plus murderous hurricane.  You loose the 5 inv but you get +1 save and the -1 to hit for your castle force and you trade the nullzone fear factor for additional fighting last opponent. The 5 inv is huge though. You can always get 2 priests for all thebuffs

4.Redemptor dread. This guy is super good now with damage reduction by 1. He gets the 5+inv from priest. He can also intervene to support your castle.

5.Thunderwolf cav. A lot of people over equip these guys and I don't understand why. I always use one or two squads of 4 all with shields and a hammer or 2 max. I may give mastercrafted hammer to the pack leader for that extra threat. They are very good with the assault doctrine strat and the +1 to wound strat. Their job is to draw fire away from your shooty guys and troops and get to your opponents lines.

6.Solo cyberwolves are super good for hunting objectives at the backfield, hidding behind terrain.

7.Intercessors with powerfist or hammer and autobolt rifles as troops for hunting objectives in the midfield.

8.Wolf Lord or bjorn as your warlord. Who stays with the castle and picks its battles. Also you can turn a Wolflord to a blender by giving him twin claws, jumpack, frost weapon, and imperium sword +chapter master. Bjorn is a great buffer with the 9" reroll 1s to hit and wound aura (dread strat), he is crazy good in melee and the priest makes him very difficult to bring down

Those were my 8 cents cheers

PS :Almost everyone online treats wolves as the worst marine supplement cause they can't do that apothecary nonsense every other marine army does (no other marine army has the wolves' melee counterpunch, )while their spacewolves lists are super weak or super spammy which is very boring to watch and also play with or against

Edited March 24, 2021 by lonewolf81

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Yeah lonewolf81 is right about the content creator's wolf lists, they usually go all in for assault. I do think alot of that is they are focused on trying to create an entertaining game. I haven't heard to many say we're the worst or bad though typically that honor goes to Imperial Fists.

[TheUnlikelyGamer84]

Thanks for the suggestions and in fact I already employ a lot of those tactics. The only limiting factor for my game tomorrow morning is it a 1500 point game so I can’t fit everything I want to. I even test played a 1250pt list yesterday that did well. Shooting is definitely something I lacked yesterday though. I’ll post my list for tomorrow when I get a sec this evening.

[TheUnlikelyGamer84]

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves) [81 PL, 1,500pts, 7CP] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

**Chapter Selection**: Born Heroes , Space Wolves Successor, Whirlwind of Rage

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

 

Detachment Command Cost

 

+ Stratagems +

 

A Trophy Bestowed [-1CP]

 

Relics of the Chapter [-2CP]: 2x Number of Extra Relics

 

+ HQ +

 

Chapter Master [8 PL, 155pts, -1CP]: Chapter Command: Chapter Master, Frost Weapon, Hunter, Jump Pack, Lightning Claw (Pair), Stratagem: Warrior of Legend, The Imperium's Sword, Warlord

 

Librarian [7 PL, 140pts]: 2. Murderous Hurricane, 4. Instincts Awoken, 5. Storm Caller, Boltgun, Chapter Command: Chief Librarian, Force axe, Jump Pack, The Armour of Russ

 

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [7 PL, 140pts, -1CP]: 4. Mantra of Strength, 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Benediction of Fury, Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, Wise Orator

 

+ Troops +

 

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]

. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol

. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Heavy Bolt Pistol, Power fist

 

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 115pts]

. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol

. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Heavy Bolt Pistol, Thunder hammer

 

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]

. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol

. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Heavy Bolt Pistol, Power fist

 

+ Elites +

 

Judiciar [5 PL, 85pts]

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 185pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

 

Wolf Guard [14 PL, 250pts]: Jump Pack

. Wolf Guard: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard: Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts]: Cyberwolf

 

Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts]: Cyberwolf

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Eradicator Squad [14 PL, 190pts]: Melta rifle

. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol

. Eradicator Sgt

. Eradicator with MM: Multi-melta

 

++ Total: [81 PL, 7CP, 1,500pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

Edited March 24, 2021 by TheUnlikelyGamer84

[WrathOfTheLion]

Deathwing Knights are a fantastic linebreaker unit, and extremely durable, they're also really expensive though. So playing around them will be effective, if you have something that can kill them, then that's great, but I would try to throw as little as possible at them and make it so that they can't earn their points back. Like most expensive and powerful units, it works out well if you can keep them busy throughout the match instead of running amok.

 

DA are a melee army, and a strong one at that, so you can't just think you're going to out-melee them. That's the biggest change I think as compared to before. I know the BA players are having a hard time with this especially, they mistakenly think they're fighting a gunline army because that was how the rules were in the past. That said, Ravenwing has a lot of defenses against range, so punching them hard in the face with a strong melee unit will work good.

 

I haven't played Deathwing yet this edition, only a Ravenwing/Greenwing force. Been playing my SW mostly recently.

Edited March 24, 2021 by WrathOfTheLion

[TheUnlikelyGamer84]

So for the strategy of my list above I’m taking into consideration the tips you all provided for playing against DA. Plan is to ignore deathwing knights where able and use my 3 ways of forcing opponent to fight last and not interrupt in the other combats I’m engaged in. Murderous Hurricane, armor of Russ, and the judiciar. Eradicators with be using cunning of the wolf and keen senses to take out his Admech gun line where needed including off his board edge. Cyber wolves will be sneaky and cap objectives/ zone out deepstrike. Wolfguard will be counter charge unit and may or may not deepstrike depending on opposing deployment. Librarian turn 1 and perhaps 2 will use stormcaller and proc cloaked by the storm for some needed durability on my units. Priest will lend his +2” charge litany where needed and double when needed as a beat stick. Capt will be best stick as well as lending his chapter master Reroll. I also have a couple ways to get units into assault doctrine early for that sweet sweet 6s proc two additional hits. I plan to use the chapter master rerolls to fish for more 6s rerolling everything that isn’t already a 6. Not to mention assault intercessors are the only units that can fight twice. So potentially a ton of attacks.

[lonewolf81]

Looks strong... let us know how it did ...and as you said reroll everything thats not a 6 with the blender lord,its worth it every time

...good luck have fun

Edited March 24, 2021 by lonewolf81

[TheUnlikelyGamer84]

So I won The game versus dark angels and Admech. Mission type was no man’s land. My secondary objectives were oath of moment, Attrition, and The mission specific secondary. my opponent resigned turn four as I had all but tabled Him and the score was 48 to 16 for the wolves. I did make some mistakes but that’s how you learn. The blender captain is insane by giving him self chapter master rerolls and all the double sixes that’s ridiculous. I found myself re-rolling anything that wasn’t a six and it worked out amazing. I did however forget multiple Times to use the chaplain litany of hate for rolling hits. This would have taken the intercessors to another level. One 5 man squad killed 7 out of 10 Deathwing terminators by themself. Sgt did have a hammer though. In the end it didn’t matter I almost tabled my opponent but it would’ve been nice to get my rules right. Also castellan robots have so much shooting it’s crazy they planted there feet and 2 of them had 32 shots at S6. As y’all said Deathwing really are durable I learned a lot and plan on using this list a while to hone the list. Edited March 25, 2021 by TheUnlikelyGamer84

[TiguriusX]

With double exploding 6s and hitting on 2s the math says reroll everything that is not a 6

 

1 = 1/6 chance to fail

6 = 1/6 chance but gives 2 hits

 

So the odds of 1 or 6 are the same but the benefits outweigh the risk

[TheUnlikelyGamer84]

With double exploding 6s and hitting on 2s the math says reroll everything that is not a 6

 

1 = 1/6 chance to fail

6 = 1/6 chance but gives 2 hits

 

So the odds of 1 or 6 are the same but the benefits outweigh the risk

. That’s exactly what I did and it was magnificent. Every time “6 fishing” was definitely worth it. Edited March 25, 2021 by TheUnlikelyGamer84

[TheUnlikelyGamer84]

I’m thinking of adding my wulfen in for larger games. They will benefit from the double exploding 6s all game as they alway count as being in assault doctrine. They also give a Reroll charge aura. I will of course sneak around behind LOS blocking terrain until the time is right to strike. No need to have them die too early. However if they are near my librarian stormcaller and cloaked by the storm active they will be much more durable.

[TiguriusX]

Read the "very interesting pod" post and listen to the podcast

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369526-very-interesting-pod-about-competitive-wolves/?do=findComment&comment=5679778

 

 

You are going down the same path Jamie Paris did

[TheUnlikelyGamer84]

I saw it on YouTube on protabletop. His list is similar to mine but I don’t use blood claws or sky claws and I have three ways to make opponent fight last/not be selected to fight until end of phase.

[Gherrick]

I'm a huge fan of 10 heavy intercessors using the Executor bolt rifle + 2 Executor heavy bolt rifles to basically guard your half of the board (while holding your objective). Tough to take down (good target of the primaris strat), and enough punch to deal any softer targets trying to interfere with the middle objectives (LOS permitting).