Aesthetic opinion?

[Claws and Effect]

Now that I have jumped on the Heresy train with both feet, I seek my fellow Raven's opinions.

 

The Terran Raven Guard hail from what is known as the "Asiatic dustfields" and one of the more prominent characters known to be Terran is named Soukhanou.

 

Now, if you say that name out loud it sounds vaguely Japanese, and "Asiatic dustfields" sounds like it should be in the area that used to be East Asia.

 

With that in mind would you consider it strong enough lore logic to give Heresy era Raven Guard close combat weapons with a Japanese aesthetic?

 

I'm thinking a sheathed wakizashi in place of the regular combat blade and katanas and nodachis for power swords and paragon blades.

 

Is my logic there sound or would I get looked at funny for showing up to an event with Japanese weapons on my Raven Guard?

[N1SB]

Ninja Legionnaires!  To answer your question, aesthetically my opinion is that'll look great.

 

Actually, I have something to provide you more options/possibilities/explanations for what you already want to do.

 

"Asiatic dustfields" made me think of Mongolia...but that's obviously White Scars, so you're not served well doing a Mongol theme.  But related to that is a phenomenon called "Yellow Sand"; that has zero racial connotations, it's literally what we say in Chinese, "黄沙", because it's literally yellow, a sandstorm so big it actually blows from Mongolia into China, Korea and, of course, Japan.  When I lived in Beijing, I experienced this 1st hand, the city would turn into an Asiatic dustfield alright.  It was a huge environmental thing at the time due to industrialisation north of there, so I imagine the problem got worse by the year 30,000 , and the point is it really gets over all of East Asia.

 

Therefore, you don't have to be specifically Japan and here's why, specifically regarding the swords.  Many types of Korean swords actually look exactly like Japanese swords, these Korean swords are called "Jingum".  By exactly, I mean I assume there was definitely a cultural transfer because they really look samey, the only way you can tell the difference is really looking closely at the edge profile and subsequent weight (Japanese swords are actually the less comfortable of the 2, because at the time the Japanese didn't have access to quality metals other countries did, so they adapted by forging differently to compensate).  You'll see when you do an image search for Jingum, they look the exact same as the swords you described.

 

Result - the swords look Japanese, but it's not just Japanese, Korea has the exact same sword to make it more truly "Asiatic", thus making your interpretation more accurate.

[Claws and Effect]

That actually helps a ton!

 

I didn't know Korea also had swords that would look identical to katanas at 28mm scale. It definitely makes it easier for me to headcanon the sword design.

 

Maybe that design of sword just proved itself the best/most efficient design over the millennia and propagated across the entire region.

 

It also helps that it's not specifically Japanese, since the Raven Guard were never tied to any particular culture other than "generally Asian in locale"

 

I could also easily see Corax appreciating the design for its effectiveness in combat and tacitly allowing the Legionaires keep them if they wished, rather than forcing them to adopt a Legion-wide standard.

[Lucien Eilam]

Couple of points before you go all-in on this.

• I think most references to the Xeric tribes and Terran-born Raven Guard strongly suggest Western Asia rather than Japan:
  • Soukhounou is African: “Soukhounou was the darkest of them all, a testament to his gene-heritage amongst the Sahelian League on Terra. He had short-cropped, curled black hair and a beard of the same furred his chin and cheeks”. The Sahel is the band of grassland south of the Sahara, a region heavily influenced by Arabic culture.
  • “Arkhas Fal” – Arkhas is the personification of darkness in the Second Book of Enoch, Fal could refer to a number of places in Iran. “Alastor Rushal” – Alastor ultimately derives from Greek Alexandros, obviously someone of that name once conquered most of Western Asia, Rushal is Sanskrit.
  • Most of those places are today considered part of the “deserts and xeric scrublands biome”.
  • GW don’t do subtlety. If you want to know the source for fierce, authoritarian desert tribesmen, probably look to the modern stereotype for fierce, authoritarian desert tribesmen, rather than samurai.
  All told, I think a Xeric tribesman would be more likely to wield a shamshir or nimcha than a katana.
• Corax’s appreciation for the Terrans in his Legion famously extended to getting the majority killed at the Battle of Gate Forty-Two, and exiling most of the rest to the predation fleets. Their influence on the Legion’s way of war was practically non-existent by the Heresy.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

To piggyback off of what Lucian said, what Terran born Raven Guard that were left after the battle of gate 42 and exile to the predation fleets, never really achieved any notable rank. I think Soukhounou was the only one to become a Commander. There were a few Lieutenants, but very few.

 

Here's the thing though it seems to me, looking at a map of pre-unification Terra, the Xeric tribes occupy what looks to be present day southeast asia (Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and Thailand).

 

 

So I think you might be looking to the wrong place. However, by the year 30,000 CE, cultures could have blended so thoroughly that it might be difficult to pin down an exact cultural inspiration. There very well could be nordic or slavic influence by then. Also the Xeric are the primary source for Terran Raven Guard, not the only one, as Soukhounou proves.

[Claws and Effect]

Thanks for that, Ulrik.

 

I'm totally using the jingum/katana style swords. The Xeric tribes on that map are also really close to what would be present day Korea, where the jingum that N1SB references originated. In 28mm miniature form a jingum and katana would be identical looking.

 

Corax may have exiled the vast majority of the surviving Terran Raven Guard, but I don't think he'd discard an efficient weapon design out of hand just because he didn't like the guys who used it.

[Spinsanity]

To piggyback off of what Lucian said, what Terran born Raven Guard that were left after the battle of gate 42 and exile to the predation fleets, never really achieved any notable rank. I think Soukhounou was the only one to become a Commander. There were a few Lieutenants, but very few.

 

Here's the thing though it seems to me, looking at a map of pre-unification Terra, the Xeric tribes occupy what looks to be present day southeast asia (Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and Thailand).

So I think you might be looking to the wrong place. However, by the year 30,000 CE, cultures could have blended so thoroughly that it might be difficult to pin down an exact cultural inspiration. There very well could be nordic or slavic influence by then. Also the Xeric are the primary source for Terran Raven Guard, not the only one, as Soukhounou proves.

I have to admit, I wish that map had shown the Xeric tribes to be a bit further south-eastwards so that it could explain the Raven Guard and Predation Fleets' heavy Polynesian influence...

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

 

To piggyback off of what Lucian said, what Terran born Raven Guard that were left after the battle of gate 42 and exile to the predation fleets, never really achieved any notable rank. I think Soukhounou was the only one to become a Commander. There were a few Lieutenants, but very few.

 

Here's the thing though it seems to me, looking at a map of pre-unification Terra, the Xeric tribes occupy what looks to be present day southeast asia (Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and Thailand).

So I think you might be looking to the wrong place. However, by the year 30,000 CE, cultures could have blended so thoroughly that it might be difficult to pin down an exact cultural inspiration. There very well could be nordic or slavic influence by then. Also the Xeric are the primary source for Terran Raven Guard, not the only one, as Soukhounou proves.

I have to admit, I wish that map had shown the Xeric tribes to be a bit further south-eastwards so that it could explain the Raven Guard and Predation Fleets' heavy Polynesian influence...

 

Fair, but also remember that the Xeric Tribes were nomads...

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Thanks for that, Ulrik.

 

I'm totally using the jingum/katana style swords. The Xeric tribes on that map are also really close to what would be present day Korea, where the jingum that N1SB references originated. In 28mm miniature form a jingum and katana would be identical looking.

 

Corax may have exiled the vast majority of the surviving Terran Raven Guard, but I don't think he'd discard an efficient weapon design out of hand just because he didn't like the guys who used it.

As I told Spinsanity, the Xeric Tribes were nomadic, so they could draw from anywhere in the east asian sphere. Also, as Book Three: Extermination notes, the Xeric tribhes were just the primary source, and we can see some african influence (Soukhounou) and even some norse influence (choosers of the slain, the Dark Fury SGT), so it's not too much of a stretch.

[Claws and Effect]

 

 

Thanks for that, Ulrik.

 

I'm totally using the jingum/katana style swords. The Xeric tribes on that map are also really close to what would be present day Korea, where the jingum that N1SB references originated. In 28mm miniature form a jingum and katana would be identical looking.

 

Corax may have exiled the vast majority of the surviving Terran Raven Guard, but I don't think he'd discard an efficient weapon design out of hand just because he didn't like the guys who used it.

As I told Spinsanity, the Xeric Tribes were nomadic, so they could draw from anywhere in the east asian sphere. Also, as Book Three: Extermination notes, the Xeric tribhes were just the primary source, and we can see some african influence (Soukhounou) and even some norse influence (choosers of the slain, the Dark Fury SGT), so it's not too much of a stretch.

It's an easy stretch.

 

I was mostly just looking for a way to make my 30k Raven Guard more interesting and unique looking, but I also wanted to at least have a chain of logic to follow that explains why their swords look like that.

 

If I don't use a ton of them it is perfectly reasonable that the guy wielding it is either one of the handful of Terran Raven Guard that didn't get exiled, or he was gifted the blade by a battle brother.

 

So far I have one being used as a paragon blade by a Praetor, and I'm planning on doing a Command Squad with charnabal sabers that a curved sword like a katana would work for.

 

So they'll be spread out in my army enough that it's more of a personal weapon or relic than standard equipment.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

 

 

Thanks for that, Ulrik.

 

I'm totally using the jingum/katana style swords. The Xeric tribes on that map are also really close to what would be present day Korea, where the jingum that N1SB references originated. In 28mm miniature form a jingum and katana would be identical looking.

 

Corax may have exiled the vast majority of the surviving Terran Raven Guard, but I don't think he'd discard an efficient weapon design out of hand just because he didn't like the guys who used it.

As I told Spinsanity, the Xeric Tribes were nomadic, so they could draw from anywhere in the east asian sphere. Also, as Book Three: Extermination notes, the Xeric tribhes were just the primary source, and we can see some african influence (Soukhounou) and even some norse influence (choosers of the slain, the Dark Fury SGT), so it's not too much of a stretch.

It's an easy stretch.

 

I was mostly just looking for a way to make my 30k Raven Guard more interesting and unique looking, but I also wanted to at least have a chain of logic to follow that explains why their swords look like that.

 

If I don't use a ton of them it is perfectly reasonable that the guy wielding it is either one of the handful of Terran Raven Guard that didn't get exiled, or he was gifted the blade by a battle brother.

 

So far I have one being used as a paragon blade by a Praetor, and I'm planning on doing a Command Squad with charnabal sabers that a curved sword like a katana would work for.

 

So they'll be spread out in my army enough that it's more of a personal weapon or relic than standard equipment.

 

Those are actually pretty cool ideas. Most of my characters are resin and so conversions are something that I don't really do.