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Mechanicus Rumoured Datasheets for 9th edition Codex

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Zebukkuk Battle-Brother

Zebukkuk

Posted
Posted

 

They also had Relentless so could fire Heavy with no penalty (and other weapons). It wouldnt be outside the realm of possibility if Rangers ignored negative modifiers to hit as their special rule. Incursors do and they are a Troops choice for Space Marines and Dark Reapers do for Eldar. Rangers currently have none of their previous identity, they dont scout, or move better through terrain, they cant pseudo target characters and their guns finally got AP 1 which they should have from the start (all AP4 guns turned into AP1, Galvanic weapons decided they needed 6s to wound for it). So I can see Rangers ignoring penalties, they are meant to be marksmen.

 

That is my major problem with the 8th and (soon to be) 9th edition codexes. Skitarii were differentiated from Imperial Guard in 7th edition by being able to move and shoot without any loss of accuracy. That was reflected on the models with the bionic eyes, bionic legs, and no kneeling poses.

 

Now Skitarii work just like Imperial Guard with better equipment but no command squads. Ironically Guard can be better than Skitarii with shooting through Orders (no command points necessary to activate!) and Regimental Doctrines. It doesn't feel right. Rangers are supposed to stalk their prey for months without stopping. They shouldn't be relegated to backfield sniping. They should be able to move freely whilst shooting and not have to stop to use the Transuranic Arquebus.

 

Yes there is the Protector Doctrina Imperative and that's great but it costs a very scarce Command Point to activate. Meanwhile Guard regiments can "First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire", etc. for free. 7th edition Doctrina Imperatives could be activated to affect every Skitarii unit in the army. It required some thought to pick the right one because it usually meant trading some Weapon Skill for some Ballistic Skill, and vice versa. That is a ton of army flavour lost by the latest round of uninspired game designers.

Deffrekka Veteran

Deffrekka

Posted
Posted (edited)

I think they turned rangers into backfield units. If they meant them to be able to move and shoot why even bother with a heavy designation and the a trait to ignore HEAVY? Just give therm two shots.

 

I would have liked a scout move or something. We’ll see hopefully they get some trait.

Heavy has other interactions with other rules like Dogmas, certain canticles and warlord traits. Being a static unit in 9th is just bad, and with boards with good amount of terrain and Obscuring your gonna have a hard time getting the right angles and just flat out exposing your T3 4+ save Troop. A scout move again wouldnt do much for them, cool you move 6", where are they that they now have to remain static to get the most use out of their guns? Are you touching terrain so you can be shot back? Out front so they are getting charged? Might aswell still take Vanguard at that point.

 

I think they will have an ability to ignore negative modifiers. Right now they arent marksmen, they lost that from 7th going into 8th and I hope they gain that back in 9th. Armies shouldnt be forced to be immobile in 9th, everything has to be mobile to a degree.

Edited by Deffrekka
Deffrekka Veteran

Deffrekka

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

 

They also had Relentless so could fire Heavy with no penalty (and other weapons). It wouldnt be outside the realm of possibility if Rangers ignored negative modifiers to hit as their special rule. Incursors do and they are a Troops choice for Space Marines and Dark Reapers do for Eldar. Rangers currently have none of their previous identity, they dont scout, or move better through terrain, they cant pseudo target characters and their guns finally got AP 1 which they should have from the start (all AP4 guns turned into AP1, Galvanic weapons decided they needed 6s to wound for it). So I can see Rangers ignoring penalties, they are meant to be marksmen.

 

That is my major problem with the 8th and (soon to be) 9th edition codexes. Skitarii were differentiated from Imperial Guard in 7th edition by being able to move and shoot without any loss of accuracy. That was reflected on the models with the bionic eyes, bionic legs, and no kneeling poses.

 

Now Skitarii work just like Imperial Guard with better equipment but no command squads. Ironically Guard can be better than Skitarii with shooting through Orders (no command points necessary to activate!) and Regimental Doctrines. It doesn't feel right. Rangers are supposed to stalk their prey for months without stopping. They shouldn't be relegated to backfield sniping. They should be able to move freely whilst shooting and not have to stop to use the Transuranic Arquebus.

 

Yes there is the Protector Doctrina Imperative and that's great but it costs a very scarce Command Point to activate. Meanwhile Guard regiments can "First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire", etc. for free. 7th edition Doctrina Imperatives could be activated to affect every Skitarii unit in the army. It required some thought to pick the right one because it usually meant trading some Weapon Skill for some Ballistic Skill, and vice versa. That is a ton of army flavour lost by the latest round of uninspired game designers.

 

Exactly and I would like to see some of that 7th ed flavour back. Ignoring a heavy penalty isnt an impossible thing, we were already an army in 8th that LARGELY ignored heavy. Onagers, Kataphrons, Skorpius, Rage of the Machines and the Mars Canticle. We now dont really have that uniqueness even more when everything gets to ignore heavy except Infantry. Rangers were always meant to be this super accurate marksmen style unit and that simply doesnt exist for them in 8th. Heavy 2 is a start and giving them a way to move without penalty will reinforce that, its not like their aint another Troop unit in the game that ignores modifiers *cough* Incursors *cough*.

 

If they take a lot of inspiration from our 7th ed Skitarii codex I think we will be in a good spot. We are an army with 1 special rule, Canticles. All these 9th ed armies have loads of core rules now, even Drukhari and Necrons got a new army special rule in Blade Artists and Protocols. Deathguard got Contagions and whilst Space Marines already had Doctrines and all the bells and whistles of AoD, they didnt have all that back when they were first around in 8th. I think people sometimes forget how old our codex truly is, we are the second oldest codex in the game (Grey Knights are the oldest) and the age truly shows. Yeah EW brought us up to speed but it didnt actually change the fundamental issues and units of our codex.

Edited by Deffrekka
MajorNese Veteran

MajorNese

Posted
Posted

If they take a lot of inspiration from our 7th ed Skitarii codex I think we will be in a good spot. We are an army with 1 special rule, Canticles. All these 9th ed armies have loads of core rules now, even Drukhari and Necrons got a new army special rule in Blade Artists and Protocols. Deathguard got Contagions and whilst Space Marines already had Doctrines and all the bells and whistles of AoD, they didnt have all that back when they were first around in 8th. I think people sometimes forget how old our codex truly is, we are the second oldest codex in the game (Grey Knights are the oldest) and the age truly shows. Yeah EW brought us up to speed but it didnt actually change the fundamental issues and units of our codex.

I just hope it doesn't boil down to more Canticles stuff. Having good buffs, but only once, and then rolling to hope for that one good again, is just not up to the current standards of how armies get buffed.

 

As for rangers, I'm not really salty about that -1 when moving (if there is no special rule to cancel that, we don't know yet). Above 15" it's still a net gain in hits even when moving, and the modifier being capped at -1 means you can shoot at stuff that has a -1 on their own without loss of precision when moving. And there is no more Eldar "you hit at -3 or -4  - oh, you can't even hit on 6s, just forget it" crap that would make the -1 even more tragic.

 

There are a lot of rules/abilities that need to get updated to 9th, there are a lot of basic army mechanics missing (compared to 9th ed codices), let's wait and see before we grab the power pitchforks...

Deffrekka Veteran

Deffrekka

Posted
Posted

 

If they take a lot of inspiration from our 7th ed Skitarii codex I think we will be in a good spot. We are an army with 1 special rule, Canticles. All these 9th ed armies have loads of core rules now, even Drukhari and Necrons got a new army special rule in Blade Artists and Protocols. Deathguard got Contagions and whilst Space Marines already had Doctrines and all the bells and whistles of AoD, they didnt have all that back when they were first around in 8th. I think people sometimes forget how old our codex truly is, we are the second oldest codex in the game (Grey Knights are the oldest) and the age truly shows. Yeah EW brought us up to speed but it didnt actually change the fundamental issues and units of our codex.

I just hope it doesn't boil down to more Canticles stuff. Having good buffs, but only once, and then rolling to hope for that one good again, is just not up to the current standards of how armies get buffed.

 

As for rangers, I'm not really salty about that -1 when moving (if there is no special rule to cancel that, we don't know yet). Above 15" it's still a net gain in hits even when moving, and the modifier being capped at -1 means you can shoot at stuff that has a -1 on their own without loss of precision when moving. And there is no more Eldar "you hit at -3 or -4  - oh, you can't even hit on 6s, just forget it" crap that would make the -1 even more tragic.

 

There are a lot of rules/abilities that need to get updated to 9th, there are a lot of basic army mechanics missing (compared to 9th ed codices), let's wait and see before we grab the power pitchforks...

 

They can go in any direction, I think it would suit us if we have a new army rule that was built around objectives, kind of like Aqcuistion at all Costs where we fight more fiercely over objectives. Now that doesnt mean +1 save but something around that theme. Trying to shift Admech from an objective they have locked down should be tough. Canticles Id like to see get a rework, Power from Pain did and it seems overall better except for a few units and with Blade Artists they make actual Wyches have some punch in combat. I like 2 of the Canticles we have atm outside of the FW specific ones and the rest are just flat or never come up.

 

Ive always been a Ranger over Vanguard type of Skitarii commander as is, so Im happy with any change. Their 8th ed iteration was just pure ass, no matter how much I forced myself to love them, ultimately what I want for our army is CHARACTER. Dark Eldar got plenty of thematic and powerful rules (so that need FAQs) that totally turned what was bad on its head into all star units. I have good expectations for our codex, will it be top tier? I dont really care as long as I feel like my army has something that makes it feel fun and unique.

The Officer Veteran

The Officer

Posted
Posted

Ok,

 

Manipulus

Skitarii

Skorpius Dunerider

Skorpius Disintegrator

Ruststalkers

 

Well, to be honest, that's just what I need right now... But the Drukhari got a transport and a gunship so maybe we can too!

 

A discount source of chickens and servitors would be most welcome as well!

Magos Takatus Venerable Brother

Magos Takatus

Posted
Posted

A Skitarii themed box would be pretty amazing. Anything with a Marshal and a Dragoon/ Ironstrider in would be awesome. More Pteraxii or Serberys would be a slightly tougher sell to me because both units were hard work to paint but they make a lot of sense to put in there. Since they appear to be making Ruststalkers more effective putting some Sicarians in the box might be a nice idea.

excelite Battle-Brother

excelite

Posted
Posted (edited)

Haven’t had a deeper look at the admech army of renown, but the DG and DE boxes seem quite a good fit/base to build upon, therefore I guess it‘ll be the warhammer imperium admech models + something that’s in line with their aor...

 

Maybe a Box worth of Kastelans?

Edited by excelite
Zebukkuk Battle-Brother

Zebukkuk

Posted
Posted

@Black_Knight

 
The cynical side of me says a Dominus is guaranteed alongside yet more Skitarii infantry--- Basically a repeat of the old Start Collecting! box with one or two things added. Hopefully they do better this time but I'm not feeling optimistic.
Magos Takatus Venerable Brother

Magos Takatus

Posted
Posted

My guess for the box: 5 TPD and 7 Datasmiths.

 

I hope we start to see rumors wasn’t the binary on the video “April” in ASCI?

If that comes to pass now I'll have to throw you into the Eye of Terror myself! :p

My silliness aside, I don't have a plastic Engineseer, could do with a Manipulus with the Transonic flamer thing and of course the new Marshal so they would have to really mess up this box for me not to be interested.

Black Knight Veteran

Black Knight

Posted
Posted

My guess for the box: 5 TPD and 7 Datasmiths.

 

I hope we start to see rumors wasn’t the binary on the video “April” in ASCI?

 

Sold!

 

Yeah it did say April, well multiple people did say it was but I didn't translate it personally.

 

I lost any kind of hype after the... third? tease of our new HQ, but for some reason knowing what's in that box is the only thing that has me excited. I can easily wait for everything else just give me that content article please!

MajorNese Veteran

MajorNese

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yeah, I translated the vid, it said April.

 

With yesterday's news, I lost most of the hype for now. My entire WiP/Pile of Shame AdMech waits for the codex to drop and (hopefully) rebalance our army to usable levels, but building stuff has to wait until we see what it actually does. The Marshall is nice and will be ordered too, but unless there's any additional releases teasered (which I don't really expect, given the recent wave), there's nothing to do or discuss about until they decide to resume their releases, or go into solid detail about how the codex changes AdMech. And it will be disappointing if the codex just slightly rebalances units without fundamentally updating the army wide mechanics.

 

GWs hype game has been erratic and unsuccessful before, but this is not a step into the right direction.

Edited by MajorNese
Black Knight Veteran

Black Knight

Posted
Posted

Their attitude of going silent when something goes wrong or when customers have a legitimate question, isn't great either. They shouldn't have to tell us everything but when they start to edit old posts that say a product was going to be a line item, to its gone when its gone and wont tell people what's going on, well that's going to hurt them down the line(The whole Cursed City thing). We don't need to know what went wrong but it would be respectful just to tell us in an official post what's going on with that box so everyone can sort out their hobby situation.

 

Same could be said for Admech, just tell us were next and maybe tell us what we will have available on the day, we can then put everything on the backburner for two weeks and you pretty much reduce a lot of the bad feelings people have. Even telling us the Sisters is next would be something.

MajorNese Veteran

MajorNese

Posted
Posted

Their attitude of going silent when something goes wrong or when customers have a legitimate question, isn't great either. They shouldn't have to tell us everything but when they start to edit old posts that say a product was going to be a line item, to its gone when its gone and wont tell people what's going on, well that's going to hurt them down the line(The whole Cursed City thing). We don't need to know what went wrong but it would be respectful just to tell us in an official post what's going on with that box so everyone can sort out their hobby situation.

This. The whole Ordinatus rules thing still echoes till today, and there has never been an official word about it. Even if you ask the GW guys on events.

"Everything will have rules...oh wait, now that the rules are out, we rule out rules that were just on the webpage and not in a book. Only book rules are true rules now. You bought the models already? Well, that's your problem."

 

Stealth editing promises just feels dishonest. The world is out of whack right now regarding logistics and economy, things go wrong, we get it.

Being open about the relevant parts would make us trust them more, but these unnecessary "No, we never said that. XYZ doesn't exist" actions do the exact opposite. We read that stuff already, how bad do they estimate our memory to be?

 

Cursed City is another example - back with the Indomitus box set, GWs approach of artificial scarcity and scalpers made a damn bad mix.

But GW got in front of it, promised Made To Order, even if the exact delivery date was unknown. And people were okay with that - a bit of "told you so GW" regarding scalper activity, a bit of annoyance of late delivery, but mostly good mood due to GW acting flexible and hitting scalpers right in the wallet. Why the stealth edit instead?

 

Same could be said for Admech, just tell us were next and maybe tell us what we will have available on the day, we can then put everything on the backburner for two weeks and you pretty much reduce a lot of the bad feelings people have. Even telling us the Sisters is next would be something.

Their hype game has been erratic in the past, and I doubt they will handle this one better.

Back in the "orktober", the hype train was running right until October started, and then...nothing. A few empty articles, but still nothing of use to ork players.

Preorders started on the last weekend of the "all about orks" month, the hype has run off weeks before anything actually hit the shelves. And the release waves all happened in November.

 

This delay, without hint of how long it would be exactly, won't be handled any better.

Even if they learned a bit from past community response, the ad-hoc nature of this delay would have wrecked any existing plan.

Madao Battle-Brother

Madao

Posted
Posted (edited)

Well, although the box is disappointing (at least for me), then it confirms one thing - Enginseer is still an HQ choice for us.

 

EDIT: One more thing - I expect a larger hike in Power Levels - this box is 18-21 PL (in current values), depending on skitarii squad size (5 + 5 for PL6 vs 10 for PL5) and Breachers (PL5) vs Destroyers (PL7). It is a lot less than in other combat patrol boxes (and less than combat patrol games allow).

Edited by Madao
Magos Takatus Venerable Brother

Magos Takatus

Posted
Posted

I don't think that box is ideal for me. I don't have an Enginseer and I could perhaps build an Icarus Array Onager but at this point I have a love/hate relationship with basic Skitarii and Kataphrons because they are so time consuming for me to paint. I mean, I could make some more Breachers so I had a unit that could take more damage but do I really want to paint all those wires and cables again? :p

 

I think it's an okay box but nothing too outstanding.

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