An Even Newer Celestian

[sitnam]

The strength stat in the game likely only represents melee attack strength, not lifting strength.

Even when comparing melee strength, it's not a great metric. I've read in a couple of different sources about Kroot strength from their whip-like musculature, but in game it's a 3

[Progenitor]

When a genetically enhanced post-human is given a strength of 4, there's not a lot of granularity in those numbers to allow for the aspects of fluff to filter through. So yes, power armour may allow sisters to life some decent sized gear (also remembering that suspensors exist in lore and may be in common use among Imperial armies) but might not really be able to punch through a wall like a Space Marine. 

 

While Xenos species may have formidable strength compared to an unaugmented Human, we're still tied into metric values in game so while is should in theory be more than 3, they're pigeon-holed by 8ft post humans having been given a 4. 

[Brother Tyler]

And all of this ignores the fact that it's not the strength to wield the halberd/shield that is my issue - it's the ability to wield both effectively in combat. Using either one correctly renders the other much less effective. While there are historical instances of halberds and shields being used together effectively, there's a reason why the preponderance of historical depictions and manuals, as well as modern usages (Swiss Guard, ARMA) tend to show the halberd being used two-handed without a shield (Getty Images link for examples). Despite all of this, most of us understand that historical accuracy isn't really a strength (nor should it be) of the WH40K setting, which is a science fantasy setting. If I was playing an historical tabletop miniature wargame, I might be much more concerned. As it is, I can shrug at the thought of halberd/shield wielding battle nuns facing off against algae-based space barbarians, space crustaceans turned up to 11, etc.

 

More importantly, I didn't mean for this discussion to get so wrapped up in my personal objection. I've even said that I'll include some halberd/shield versions in my army, so even though I think it's an impractical combination, it's not so objectionable that I won't use it myself. There will simply be far fewer halberd/shield sisters than mace/shield sisters in my army (again, unless the halberd/shield combination is significantly better than the mace/shield).

[Progenitor]

Due to Covid and the timing of everything, it's more than likely the first time I get to put my own Sisters on the table I'll not have been able to use the 8th ed Codex at all, if the new one is revealed during Warhammer Fest next week and the roadmap in the UK being maybe I can meet up with friends safely at the end of the June! 

[march10k]

And all of this ignores the fact that it's not the strength to wield the halberd/shield that is my issue - it's the ability to wield both effectively in combat. Using either one correctly renders the other much less effective. While there are historical instances of halberds and shields being used together effectively, there's a reason why the preponderance of historical depictions and manuals, as well as modern usages (Swiss Guard, ARMA) tend to show the halberd being used two-handed without a shield (Getty Images link for examples). Despite all of this, most of us understand that historical accuracy isn't really a strength (nor should it be) of the WH40K setting, which is a science fantasy setting. If I was playing an historical tabletop miniature wargame, I might be much more concerned. As it is, I can shrug at the thought of halberd/shield wielding battle nuns facing off against algae-based space barbarians, space crustaceans turned up to 11, etc.

 

More importantly, I didn't mean for this discussion to get so wrapped up in my personal objection. I've even said that I'll include some halberd/shield versions in my army, so even though I think it's an impractical combination, it's not so objectionable that I won't use it myself. There will simply be far fewer halberd/shield sisters than mace/shield sisters in my army (again, unless the halberd/shield combination is significantly better than the mace/shield).

 

 

~shrug~  I'm not sure whether I'm more offended that the Tau have a space pope and the sisters don't, or that the sisters' Swiss guard members are so unrealistically weighed down with a scutum each.  Perhaps if they'd been issued machine pistols instead of the stoopid shields...

[Brother Tyler]

After seeing the reveals, I'm very pleased with the maces.

 

After seeing the inside of the shields, however, I dislike them even more.

 

You can't remove/replace the magazine unless there is some mechanism that rotates the bottom of the pistol away from the shield. It's just as bad with the hand flamer (though it might be argued that the ammo tank might have some rotation mechanism).

 

At least the face of the shield shown in the middle doesn't look as bad as the others.

 

Also, it looks like the shield is attached to the pistol weapon without being braced on the arm, leaving manipulation of the shield as an act of the forearm and wrist. Unless that shield is constructed of some ultra-lightweight and durable material it doesn't seem practical. That type of construction would have been much better with a much smaller shield/buckler. A shield that size should at least be braced on the forearm.

 

Nit picky stuff, I know. Regardless of my issues I'll still have a squad of these sisters in my army.

[toaae]

Yeah, I'm bummed about the inside of the shield as well. Not enough to move the unit off my list of high-praise, but there's an asterisk now.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Obvious problem: If she uses the pistol, she'll deny her body the protection the shield should offer, making the wargear "dead weight."

 

Have the sculptors put ZERO thought over how wargear is used in war?

[War Angel]

Obvious problem: If she uses the pistol, she'll deny her body the protection the shield should offer, making the wargear "dead weight."

Have the sculptors put ZERO thought over how wargear is used in war?

She uses the pistol when there’s a chance, pulls it back for protection. Runs out of ammo, by this point she’s in close and ready to use the mace.

[Banjulhu]

Once again. This is a setting in which genetically enhanced super soldiers in exo-suits fight sentient magical space mushroom.

 

Reality is taking a back seat whilst the rule of cool drives.

[Bonzi]

Once again. This is a setting in which genetically enhanced super soldiers in exo-suits fight sentient magical space mushroom.

 

Reality is taking a back seat whilst the rule of cool drives.

I don't have issues with the reality/unreality of 40K, it's all deeply silly if you put any thought to it. 40K is like being in Disneyland, it isn't authentic but it's still fun. My beef with the pistol shooting pose is that it pulls back the curtain and shows you the trash tunnels and poorly paid people stuffed into hot cartoon costumes. I really like this unit on a lot of levels...I even love the idea of the pistol shield similar to the combat shield of a space marine champion...but the model posed as if she's using her bolt pistol just kind of makes the impracticality obvious. My solution will be to pose the models in a guarding position rather than the shooting position.

 

I will say the smaller pictures showing the plasma pistol and flame pistol poses are much better for me. The arm tight in to the body works better for me than the arm extended bolt pistol pose.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Bonzi

[Montford]

The models are beautiful.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Montford