2000 pt DA DW/RW

[Hofy]

Hi all,

 

I'm still having games against my friend Thousand son. Currently we are playing 1000 pts games and I'm using a 100% RW which works well. Would like to expand to 2000 pts. What do you think about this one?

 

The aim is to have azrael, term, dread, ancient, apoticary together to move slowly toward the table center whilst all RW move together to grab obj (one sqad staying behind for home obj).

 

Currently I'm at 2013 points. I'm not sure what to remove. The corvus hammers? Or I just remove the dread and increase the size of tzrmi and DWK.

 

Cheers

Hofy

 

 

++ Outrider Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Dark Angels) [56 PL, 8CP, 1,110pts] ++

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

Stratagem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]:

 

+ HQ +

 

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [6 PL, 115pts]: 4. Mantra of Strength, Mace of Redemption

 

Sammael [8 PL, 150pts]

 

+ Elites +

 

Ravenwing Black Knights [12 PL, 225pts]

. Ravenwing Black Knight: Corvus Hammer

. Ravenwing Black Knight: Corvus Hammer

. Ravenwing Black Knight: Corvus Hammer

. Ravenwing Black Knight: Corvus Hammer

. Ravenwing Huntmaster: Corvus Hammer

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Attack Bike Squad [4 PL, 110pts]

. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

 

Bike Squad [5 PL, 90pts]

. Biker Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword

. 2x Space Marine Biker w/Bolt Pistol: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Twin boltgun

 

Bike Squad [5 PL, 90pts]

. Biker Sergeant: Bolt pistol

. 2x Space Marine Biker w/Bolt Pistol: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Twin boltgun

 

Land Speeders [6 PL, 140pts]

. Land Speeder: Multi-melta

. Land Speeder: Multi-melta

 

+ Flyer +

 

Nephilim Jetfighter [10 PL, 190pts]: Avenger mega bolter

 

++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Dark Angels) [53 PL, 1CP, 903pts] ++

Deathwing Vanguard Detachment [3CP]

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

+ HQ +

 

Azrael [8 PL, 2CP, 170pts]: 1. Brilliant Strategist, Warlord

 

Lieutenant(s) [8 PL, 160pts]

. Ravenwing Talonmaster

 

+ Elites +

 

Deathwing Ancient [5 PL, 100pts]: Pennant of Remembrance

. Powerfist and Storm Bolter

 

Deathwing Terminator Squad [18 PL, 223pts]: Watcher in the Dark

. Deathwing Sergeant

. . Storm Bolter & Power Sword

. Deathwing Terminator

. . Storm Bolter & Power Fist: Power fist

. Deathwing Terminator

. . Storm Bolter & Power Fist: Power fist

. Deathwing Terminator

. . Storm Bolter & Power Fist: Power fist

. Deathwing Terminator

. . Storm Bolter & Power Fist: Power fist

. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)

 

Dreadnought [8 PL, 135pts]: Heavy plasma cannon, Missile launcher, Rites of Initiation

 

Ravenwing Apothecary [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

. Black Knight Bike: Plasma Talon

 

++ Total: [109 PL, 9CP, 2,013pts] ++

[aura_enchanted]

u have an outrider with the useless nephilim and the vanguard has the ravenwing apothecary which invalidates it as a deathwing vanguard

[Vulshra]

u have an outrider with the useless nephilim and the vanguard has the ravenwing apothecary which invalidates it as a deathwing vanguard

Ravenwing apothicary has inner circle so doesn't invalidate first company.

 

I agree there are better options than the nephilim. What are your model restrictions? That'll help provide a bit more guidance

[Hofy]

Really? I like the nephilim, 16 heavy bolter was quite efficient when I've played it. Is the dark talon better?

 

I've got more bikes, more termis, lot of greenwing, no bladegards, no dar shroud, no more attack bike. I've got ezekiel but against a psyker army I don't think it would be good.

 

I think atm my list has too much HQ but enough units to boost. What do you think of a bike squad with melta? This would be an alternative to attack bikes.

I also think I'm missing some anti tanks, that's why I took the dread.

[Vulshra]

Normally I'd agree 16 heavy bolter shots is good, but if you're hunting infantry you're already very solid with terminators and bikes, and hunting heavies you have plasma. I'd say replacing the nephilim with plasma and melta bikers will improve your damage output, making your rw both objective and damage threats, which you can combat squad into an objective grabber and a special weapons bomb.

[Grand Master Raziel]

The list is kind of heavy on characters. You only need 1 HQ each for an Outrider and a Vanguard. Plus there's obvious utility to the Deathwing Ancient and the Ravenwing Apothecary.  I think the most redundant character is the Chaplain, and he really kind of sticks out being the only Primaris unit you have in the list. With both Azrael and Sammael in the list, you don't need him.

 

I think I'd either drop either Azrael or Sammael too. I'm leaning a bit towards dropping Azrael, as he's going to struggle to keep up with all the Ravenwing elements zooming forward and being in place to support the Terminators when they drop in. Sammael can be where you need him to be all the time.

I think the Dreadnought is fine, though you don't necessarily need the anti-tank punch. I'd keep the heavy plasma cannon but drop the missile launcher in favor of his dread CCW with the storm bolter. My reasoning is he can mind a backfield objective, and an opponent isn't going to be able to count on a small unit taking it away from him, as he's got a respectable amount of both firepower and close combat ability.

The Nephilim is a fine centerpiece model, but the firepower it brings is not much better than you'd get cheaper with a second Talonmaster, which is also protected by being a character, whereas the Nephilim can be shot at right away. That said, if you like it, keep it. I don't think a Talonmaster would be so much better that you're screwing yourself by not making the change. You might want to stick it in Strategic Reserve at the beginning of most of your games though.

What I would do, were I making a list like this, is field both a full-sized Ravenwing Black Knight squad and a full-sized Deathwing Terminator Squad. The reason for those choices would be to fully exploit the Weapons of the Dark Age and Deathwing Assault stratagems. WotDA requires no explanation. Deathwing Assault is pretty killer when you think about it.  Take a 10-man DW squad, drop them in during a Tactical Doctrine turn.  They're going to be wounding most things on no worse than a 4+ with -1 AP. By my math, that gets 13 wounds through on a T7, 3+ save target (assuming rerolls of 1's on to hits and to wounds), and that's just with all storm bolters. Plus, coming in as part of a DW Vanguard, it's 10 DWTs with Obsec.  Clearing that off an objective will be a challenge.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Grand Master Raziel

[Hofy]

Thanks for all the comments.

At first I was ready to remove completely my vanguard detachment and replace it by a greenwing with hellblaster, intercessor, condemptor dread. But yeh I want to try with 10 DW blob with obsec.

 

I agree with your comments about Nephilim against talon master but I don't have 2 TM. I didn't realised this guy was actually almost the same shots than a Nephilim costing less.

 

Regarding the chap, lol true it's the only primaris of the list but the fig itself I have is an old converted chap, so I almost forgot he was primaris. I really like him because my friend is playing Thousands Sons with lot of inv save and in particular a demon prince with 3++ that can regenerate. It's a nightmare each time to remove it from the game and the chap is really good for that (especially with Mace of redemption and mortal wounds).

 

Sorry guys, I'm asking advises and I'm counter arguing all the time XD.

 

I've changed one thing ;) I've removed Azrael to have a full squad of termis.

 

Do you think I should add decisive tactician to the Talon Master for the termis?

 

Here is the list. No much change, I feel bad XD

 

 

++ Outrider Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Dark Angels) [56 PL, 8CP, 1,110pts] ++

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

 

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

 

Gametype: Matched

 

+ Stratagems +

 

Stratagem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

 

+ HQ +

 

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [6 PL, 115pts]: 4. Mantra of Strength, Mace of Redemption

 

Sammael [8 PL, 150pts]

 

+ Elites +

 

Ravenwing Black Knights [12 PL, 225pts]

. Ravenwing Black Knight: Corvus Hammer

. Ravenwing Black Knight: Corvus Hammer

. Ravenwing Black Knight: Corvus Hammer

. Ravenwing Black Knight: Corvus Hammer

. Ravenwing Huntmaster: Corvus Hammer

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Attack Bike Squad [4 PL, 110pts]

. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

 

Bike Squad [5 PL, 90pts]

. Biker Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword

. 2x Space Marine Biker w/Bolt Pistol: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Twin boltgun

 

Bike Squad [5 PL, 90pts]

. Biker Sergeant: Bolt pistol

. 2x Space Marine Biker w/Bolt Pistol: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Twin boltgun

 

Land Speeders [6 PL, 140pts]

. Land Speeder: Multi-melta

. Land Speeder: Multi-melta

 

+ Flyer +

 

Nephilim Jetfighter [10 PL, 190pts]: Avenger mega bolter

 

++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Dark Angels) [45 PL, -1CP, 890pts] ++

 

Deathwing Vanguard Detachment [3CP]

 

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

 

+ HQ +

 

Lieutenant(s) [8 PL, 160pts]

. Ravenwing Talonmaster: 1. Brilliant Strategist, Warlord

 

+ Elites +

 

Deathwing Ancient [5 PL, 100pts]: Pennant of Remembrance

. Powerfist and Storm Bolter

 

Deathwing Terminator Squad [18 PL, 380pts]: Watcher in the Dark

. Deathwing Sergeant

. . Storm Bolter & Power Sword

. Deathwing Terminator

. . Storm Bolter & Power Fist: Power fist

. Deathwing Terminator

. . Storm Bolter & Power Fist: Power fist

. Deathwing Terminator

. . Storm Bolter & Power Fist: Power fist

. Deathwing Terminator

. . Storm Bolter & Power Fist: Power fist

. Deathwing Terminator

. . Storm Bolter & Power Fist: Power fist

. Deathwing Terminator

. . Storm Bolter & Power Fist: Power fist

. Deathwing Terminator

. . Storm Bolter & Power Fist: Power fist

. Deathwing Terminator

. . Storm Bolter & Power Fist: Power fist

. Deathwing Terminator

. . Storm Bolter & Power Fist: Power fist

 

Dreadnought [8 PL, 135pts]: Heavy plasma cannon, Rites of Initiation

. Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter

 

Ravenwing Apothecary [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

. Black Knight Bike: Plasma Talon

 

++ Total: [101 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++

[Vulshra]

If you're concerned about invulnerability saves, I'm personally a fan of ravenwing champions with the reliquary of repentance. It crushes units reliable on invulns.

 

And don't feel bad for arguing it. Every strategic decision should be justified.

 

That said, I'd still say more bikers is worth it instead of the flyer. Obsec bikers are great, and good at anti infantry

[Grand Master Raziel]

He might put the Reliquary on the Apothecary. That way it's available if he needs it without having more characters in the list. He may have to sacrifice the Apothecary, but at least that tactical tool will be in his kit.

 

Speaking of characters, doesn't the Chaplain break the Ravenwing Outrider command benefit?

[Vulshra]

Afaik it doesn't break the formation. I thought all bike characters got the ravenwing keyword?

As an aside, i think I'm going insane. Do rw bike squads get combat squads or no? I thought they did but now battle scribe is telling me they don't

[Grand Master Raziel]

You're right, the Primaris Chaplain on a bike does get the Ravenwing keyword.

 

Also, according to Codex: Space Marines, Bike Squads do get the Combat Squads rule, and there is not a separate entry in our supplement.

[backsosoon]

I’m pretty sure bike squads get combat squads and that it turns on with 6 bikes, requiring as even a split as possible.

[Hofy]

I confirm the chap doesn't break the outrider has he's got the RW key word.

 

Giving the relicary to the apoticary, I believe you almost sacrifice him if you need it. But yeah why not, could be a good tool against these demons.

 

I don't have the figs but I can proxy, you confirm I should add storm shields in this big termi squad?

[Vulshra]

You should have storms shields on at least half, as it will really increase durability. If you want to save points the other five could have lightning claws.

[Hofy]

I had a great game with my friend last weekend, it took us 5 hours and I won!

 

Basically he had the first turn and could only shot to the termi but only managed to kill 5 of them. On my turn I ripped out his 10 termi because they were too much advanced.

I've struggled with his tanks (no much anti tank in my list) but board control and infantry/characters was great!

 

The only thing I would change to the list actually is the dreadnought, he performed OK but he just doesn't feel right.

I'll replace him with a bike squad with fuser (I've got nothing better on RW side...)

 

Cheers