Cheapest way to 30K

[Pacific81]

Hi folks,

 

A friend of mine is looking to tentatively get into 30k, looking to collect Raven Guard. I'm a little out of the loop and there seems to be an absolute mass of stuff available now so what would be the recommended way to get started? So far I have suggested just the basic tactical marines box, plus perhaps a box of Kromlech (I think) raven-style heads just as a staring point. 

 

We can share a rulebook, army lists and things of that nature. 

 

Are there any other good 3rd party producers that do Raven Guard bits? (or would that need to be the eBay route?)

 

Very grateful for any thoughts or input!

 

 

 

 

[sarabando]

3d printing

FB trading

(un sanctioned replication of STC items via traders  in the eastern fringes)

 

 

sadly via GW or FW there really inst a cheap way into 30k atm. Heresy trading on FB is a good spot and you can get the good odd deal or two.

[Cadmus Tyro]

Honestly, I would wait a few months and see if the rumours about plastic pan out....

 

Cadmus

[Pacific81]

Many thanks for the recommendations guys - I will suggest the FB trading groups. 

 

@cadmus Tyro - Ooh can I ask, what rumours about plastic? Is a new boxset being planned do you think?

[SkimaskMohawk]

If you don't care about armour mark accuracy then the cheapest (not frowned on) way is eBay marine lots. Keep the purity seals and bling to a minimum and paint them a little weathered and without the 40k style company trim and you're good to go.

[Noserenda]

Id keep an eye on trading groups, you could get lucky and find a bargain, i know my blood angels went for a lot less than id like! 

[infyrana]

I'm not sure recommending 3rd party alternative parts would be the best choice for the 'cheapest way in' to 30k.  The most basic way is to buy/convert the Praetor of choice (be it the plastic one that came in one of the box sets and also Conquest magazine) and two boxes of MkIII or MkIV tacticals from GW.  Make up some Vets for a basic RoW and a contemptor etc.

 

3D printing is a great alternative if you or a friend with a printer has the time and resources to make it work (lots of stuff can be done).

 

There are plenty of other ways from scrounging all the beakie marines you can from basic tactical and vet boxes (as well as any mkiv and mkv bits), to buying second hand and stripping them down for the bits you want etc, or to greenstuff'ing the tactical marines to make them look like older marks of armour.

 

I'd also look into Zone Mortalis as a way of fielding a smaller army with less reliance on any sort of primarch, terminator/spartan delivery system or other resin heavy investment.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I don't do any 3d printing, so I can only talk from the perspective of buying kits.

 

I would just use the Mk III and Mk IV plastic kits. I would not try to use the 40k tactical marine box, it's not going to be any cheaper, especially in the US. The tactical box is $49, and the Mk IV is $50, so it's not even worth bothering.

 

After buying ~5 or so of the tactical boxes, you'll have spare heavy bolters, plasma guns and combi weapons, so that is something to keep in mind as well.

 

Avoid buying molded shoulderpads and just use decals. A Raven Guard decal sheet is only like $30 on Forge World, and is going to give you much better coverage. If you don't know how to use decals, learn. Each one of those pads is going to run $10-20 per squad, that's easily elided cost.

 

I wouldn't invest too much into rulebooks right now. If you can get away with starting on the modeling/painting side and sitting a bit on the books, I would recommend doing that.

[Cris R]

I'm not sure recommending 3rd party alternative parts would be the best choice for the 'cheapest way in' to 30k. The most basic way is to buy/convert the Praetor of choice (be it the plastic one that came in one of the box sets and also Conquest magazine) and two boxes of MkIII or MkIV tacticals from GW. Make up some Vets for a basic RoW and a contemptor etc.

Avoid buying molded shoulderpads and just use decals. A Raven Guard decal sheet is only like $30 on Forge World, and is going to give you much better coverage. If you don't know how to use decals, learn. Each one of those pads is going to run $10-20 per squad, that's easily elided cost.

Agree transfers are cheaper for customization. I bought some Pop Goes the Monkey bits and the FW transfer sheet for my Blood Angels because that's my main legion and wanted to go all out with customized units. But I stuck with the FW transfer sheet for my budget Dark Angels force because it was significantly cheaper than purchasing a load of custom bits from PGM or other bits manufacturers.

 

That said, Egghead Miniatures is a good source of legit, reasonably priced FW bits for conversions. Although they're based in the UK, the shipping costs to the States aren't bad if you live there.

 

Also agree that Zone Mortalis is a great way to get started with the Heresy. This Goonhammer article is a nice summary of how to get into ZM at reasonable costs.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Cris R

[Varyn]

40k bits sites will often have mkvi heads, torsos and legs from the various 40k kits which you can mix into the mkiv kit for a bit more Raven Guard flavour.

 

As Wrathofthelion said, a transfer sheet is more cost effective than the legion shoulder pads.

 

Radio free isstvan did a podcast episode for new players starting with a betrayal of calth box, whilst the box is no longer available, all of the kits can still be bought separately. There has been some slight rules changes since the episode was released, but it’s still mostly relevant.

 

https://soundcloud.com/theforgottenlegion30k/radio-free-isstvan-so-you-just-bought-a-calth-box

 

As Cadmus said, hopefully it won’t be long until we have a new plastic starter set.

[No Foes Remain]

You can also use the Plastic Predator (not the twin lascannon), Vindicator, Rhino and Land Raider (just the basic, not the crusader or redeemer) as they were all in use during the Crusade and the Heresy. Weren't as good as the Deimos but were easier to make.

 

Edit: Plastic Dreads could also be used too, (listed as basic Legion Dreadnoughts) not as good as contemptors but still usable.

Edited April 21, 2021 by No Foes Remain

[MegaVolt87]

Zone mortalis would be a good start, its just infantry and a few dreadnaughts, at what? 1,000- 1,500 points army size? You could make your own terrain in a group/ amongst yourselves also. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

I don't think ZM is a great starting point tbh.

 

The mechanics are the same, but you don't really learn how the game works. The corridors are a bit too absolute in funneling units down them and skew efficacy rather hard.

[LameBeard]

Decals is an interesting topic. For most loyalists, the post-heresy symbol is either identical or at least pretty close. So the old 40k sheets are a cheap, available source. Except they didn’t have Ravenguard!

 

Space Wolf, Thousand Sons, Ultramarine, Word Bearer available on the Prospero/Calth sheets - you’re likely to get at least one of these in your plastic boxes.

 

The new chaos sheets also look pretty good for Word Bearers, Night Lords and maybe Iron Warriors. So those are the easiest legions to get cheap decals I think.

 

For my Alpha Legion, I just cheated and put the legion number XX instead of a hydra symbol. At least until I fork out for that precious forgeworld sheet one day.

 

I also second Zone Mortalis: smaller games, only one compulsory troops, no massive resin tanks - all lets you get an interesting force cheaper than full fat 30k.

 

Ps And Raven Guard look sweet in mark iv so don’t let your friend feel he has to source beakies and other mark vi bits.

 

Edit: sorry, Emperor’s Children not on new chaos decal sheet (another sign they are getting their own 40k codex soon?) but some of the old sheets would be useable. Blood angels bling and use of Aquila also gives more options for Fulgrim’s legion.

Edited April 21, 2021 by LameBeard

[infyrana]

I don't think ZM is a great starting point tbh.

 

The mechanics are the same, but you don't really learn how the game works. The corridors are a bit too absolute in funneling units down them and skew efficacy rather hard.

For sure, if you someone wants to play 30k, then play 30k... my suggestion for ZM was as an alternative idea where the use of smaller and (therefore) slightly cheaper armies could be used.  If nobody has the rulebooks and doesn't want to spend out on them, nor have the confusion for learning a different game etc then by all means please ignore my suggestion :)

[Noserenda]

ZM can work (Though cards on table its far and away my fave way to play 30k as it rules out most of the stuff i hate about 7th) but i think its needs a good setup, we played a bunch of games on a mates ZM set (Before the plastics) and everyone was enthused but some make do games with masking tape walls and the like when said player was not about were a lot less successful. So if you have the stuff it works for little games but its less useful otherwise and Skimask is absolutely correct its not the same game exactly. 

[LameBeard]

I still like ZM but If you are worried about SkimaskMohawk’s point then the compromise might be “Centurion mode” which, although not official, seems widely adopted. I think the Mournival rules are easily available?

 

Also: an old soft-back 7th edition rule book would be cheap and close enough to the Heresy Red rule book to get started. Then it’s just that dangerous feeling - are the legion army lists about to be superseded?

Edited April 22, 2021 by LameBeard

[Pacific81]

Guys thanks so much for the replies, really, really appreciated. 

 

Zone Mortalis - I hadn't heard of this before. It looks fun, where is a good starting point for terrain? (Is it the Necromunda set?)

 

Many thanks for advice on rule books as well. Will hold fire on those for the time being! 

 

@Varyn - thanks for the tip about the podcast will give that a listen! 

 

Also for the advice about decals - that does look like a much cheaper option than the pads, even 3rd party ones. 

[LameBeard]

Ha! If you are going to buy the Necromunda terrain (which would be perfect, but not compulsory, because Zone Mortalis covers a wide range of “close confines” environments) then I’m worried it won’t be cheaper any more!

 

Which legion are YOU thinking about? Are you the epic scale World Eater guy? I love your work. If you are going World Eater in 30k then here are some pointers from someone who started (but got distracted)

 

1) they get a free upgrade of chain sword to chain axe. But chain axes difficult to source cheaply. Anvil Industry one suggestion, but I haven’t bought any yet.

2) I bought Legion decal set (the old one) from forgeworld. But I’m thinking I could have got away with the old chaos decals, or maybe the VERY old world eater sheet. But it’s still a great source of squad markings for any legion.

3) Outside ZM you might want jump packs for an assault army. Again, more expensive than the nice 30k plastic infantry kits, however you source them.

 

The main benefit I see of World Eaters on the cheap is they look fine in a bit of a mish-mash of armour marks, and without helmets, so you can make everything go a little further.

 

As many others above have hinted, there is a slight hint of “pay to win” in Heresy, in that the (mostly plastic) stuff ported from 40k is not quite so points efficient as the (mostly resin forge world) stuff designed for 30k. For example: land speeders fine, javelins better. Dreads fine, contemptors better. Predators fine, Sicarians better. You get the drift - Uber-competitive players I guess have tougher choices to make. People like me who are more relaxed, well hell, those world eaters still look nice with chainswords, maybe I go to the bits shop and get one expensive chainaxe as a treat for the sergeant.

[Pacific81]

Thanks Lamebeard! Yes my main 30k hobby is with an Epic army

 

I have been looking at getting a very small volume force to paint but really just trying to help out a friend who is more interested. 

 

Ah yes I see what you mean about the Necromunda terrain price! Yes the key objective is keeping things cheap, I may have a go at building some generic 'ruins' which can be used between games (Fallout, 30k, Infinity etc.) and just sub in a few accessories for whichever game we are playing. 

 

Incidentally I did initially play pre-heresy World Eaters many years ago in the mid-late 00's. This was after the Heresy TCG and subsequent art book, and a small but dedicated community sprung up around converting and painting armies from 40k kits. Most was on the Great Crusade forum, if you know of that. There were groups of narrative events and the like, but this was before the Forge World books, dedicated rulesets so you had to use 'counts as' 40k rules. This is my blog from that time: http://eatersofworlds.blogspot.com/

Even though it was some of my favourite hobby memories eventually I just ran out of steam with it; the official FW minis came out (which took a lot of the fun out of having to scavenge and convert your own), and I can't remember which edition of 40k it was but it was where the giant tomix-toy fliers and other vehicles started to take presidence, dropping pie plates which wiped out a unit (that you had spent about 100hrs converting and painting) on a 2+. 

I think then you had Finecast come along, GW started going after fan sites in a spectacularly Chinese-government-style fashion, and the FW books (which were serious amounts of money) suddenly replaced all of the fan-made material that we had been getting by with just fine. I think that fractured that prototype community and for me at least knocked a lot of the fun out of it and I drifted away to other wargames. So, eventually the army got sold and you might see it about somewhere!

 

I do love Epic though, one of the main attractions is that you have stable rulesets that aren't going to be overwritten every few years, you can play with what you want etc. 

From the sounds of it this is one of the attractions of the current 30k Heresy ruleset, in that it has given people some stability. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Pacific81

[Gattopardo]

The issue with the resin/plastic question for me is less one of building strong lists and more that a lot of the iconic Heresy units (in my mind at least) are resin. When I think Heresy I think Scimitar jetbikes, Javelins, Sicarans, Spartans, Contemptors, Deredeos, Leviathans, Destroyers, etc...plus a lot of the Legion specific infantry.

 

Some of the plastic options are still effective though, and of course there is a plastic Contemptor, even if it's not the best sculpt.

[techsoldaten]

In response to OP. A few suggestions:

 

- Look for people selling 30k armies used. Have seen a few in the FB Marketplace.

 

- Look for Betrayal at Calth or Burning of Prospero boxed sets. Still a great value for what you get.

 

- Mk III and Mk IV plastic kits are good ways to fill out the infantry.

 

- Nothing about FW is cheap, it's the only way to get some things. Choose wisely.

 

WRT 3D printing - not worth it. It's possible to find models, either you print them on an FDM printer and they're heavily layered or you print them on an SLA printer and they're brittle. Either way, cost savings is not worth the loss of quality.

[sarabando]

 

- Look for Betrayal at Calth or Burning of Prospero boxed sets. Still a great value for what you get.

 

 

 

WRT 3D printing - not worth it. It's possible to find models, either you print them on an FDM printer and they're heavily layered or you print them on an SLA printer and they're brittle. Either way, cost savings is not worth the loss of quality.

1. only if you can find it around £150

 

2. resin printers for minis cost about as much as 2 and a half squads of marines from FW so your investment is made back very quickly. Especically when you can make exactly what youre after such as beakie marines, smooth shoulderpads, studded shoulders etc.

 

as for quality well it speaks for itself.

 

 

pads, heads torso and pack on that guy are all printed.

[Doghouse]

I agree, I've seen some amazing professional quality resin prints lately.

[Chaeron]

I know it's partially the point of the thread and has been alluded to, but I really do find planning things out in advance stops extraneous or irrelevant purchases! The fact you've narrowed down the legion helps massively, but making decisions based on what might be ideal long-term (or building towards in chunks) would be my advice for cutting down on things that aren't needed. It might also help to consider whether for instance investing in say an item for the in-game prowess and number of points it'll cost when fully equipped is worthwhile, against having to source more items to get to a similar points contribution (for a potentially higher price in the end).

 

When building armies more recently, planning in incremental chunks has always been really helpful personally - so the suggestions of Centurion/ZM are valuable if it gets you collectively playing faster, but perhaps less so if you're building a list tailored to that format that doesn't actually fit the Legion, or the long-term plan to play 30k. Knowing what you need and when - such as fulfilling the core roster, and then what becomes desirable (and in what order) definitely provides structure. I've tried to do that with my Sons of Horus - I can't say I've always succeeded, but trying to have a plan and a list is a great way to try to be keeping on target!