Frag Grenades vs Lasgun - which is better if with in 6"?

[Glute]

So if I get a 10 man infantry unit within 6" of another unit and I use the Concentrated Fire stratagem (1 CP) I believe I can throw 10 Frag Grenades vs 10 Lasguns firing.  I assume that all 10 men have to be within 6" of target.

 

So if this is correct - is it better to have 10 D6 Frag Grenades thrown vs 10 Lasgun shots? 

1. What would the average number of hits be for 10D6 grenades?

2. Assume no FSFSRF order is this better?

3. If I get FSRSRF is lasguns better? (36 shots + 1 laspistol)

 

I usually forget about using Frag grenades because I'm not typically within 6" but maybe it's something I should consider.

 

Thanks

Edited April 22, 2021 by Glute

[duz_]

Rough xls modelling says

Min: 23

Max: 47

Average: 34

SD: 6

 

So on average you're worse off vs FRFSRF within double tap range

But if you can't issue the order it's another option

 

This one usually seemed better for overwatch

[jarms48]

Pretty sure that's the Grenadiers stratagem. 

 

In terms of what's better, I think it's easier to think of it this way.

 

- No First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire? Frag grenades.

- Yes First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire? Lasguns. Sergeant throws a grenade.

- Against a unit with 11 or more models? Frag grenades. 

[mertbl]

Grenadiers with Take Aim order and just figure you'll roll above average with 10 tries.

[Diagramdude]

If you’re within 6” the sergeant always throws the grenade instead of shooting a laspistol so you’re comparing 9d6 and 1 command point to 18 lasgun shots normally or 36 lasgun shots with FRFSRF.

 

1d6 has an average of 3.5, I think 9 dice might have some average different from 3.5*9 because of statistics (binomial distribution?) but basically if you don’t have FRFSRF then you are gaining advantage on a 3+ and if you do then you are losing advantage on a roll of 1-3. But it’s not that much of an advantage considering the attacks are s3 ap0 d1, so you need to consider if it’s even worth the command point.

 

Also the grenades are blast so against 6+ models each roll is guaranteed a minimum of 3 shots and against 11+ you’ll get 60 grenade attacks instead of 37 lasgun shots.

 

Another consideration is the utility of orders other than FRFSRF. Since grenadiers can net a similar output compared to FRFSRF, you can instead give stationary Cadians reroll failed hits with take aim, reroll 1s to wound with bring it down, or allow a falling back unit to throw all their grenades after falling back with get back in the fight.

 

Usually it’s also best to use grenadiers on your bullgryn instead so they can all use their frag bombs instead of just one guy.