Seeking Advice on FAST White Scars list for 2000 pt tourney

[geektom]

Hey All- been away for a long time. Forcing myself to get back in by setting a goal to have a tourney-decent list ready for a Tournament upcoming in July 2021.

Ticket is paid for, hotel is reserved- so I am committed at this point in order to help motivate me.

 

So, here is the thing: I suck as a general in general- and I haven't played a single game of 9th edition.

 

My successor chapter uses White Scars rules, stratagems, etc.- keeping things simple by sticking with (what little) I know.

 

My goal is so have a list that follows my theme of "Strike fast, strike hard". Also, they are very devout, and always take a Chaplain for every detachment.

 

I have no expectations of winning my battles- I just want to be competitive and play it well- so the simpler the rules/choices for a unit, the better. I am not taking any large vehicles on purpose- both by theme, and to make the army easier to travel with on a plane. I don't have any new/Primaris models purchased- so I need to bring my army up to speed, while hopefully using a good chunk of existing infantry.

 

Ok, be gentle- but open to any and all ideas so I can lock down a list and get paining...

 

Storm Brothers (Fast List)

 

Adeptus Astartes Battalion Detachment ( 3CP - 696PT )

 

SUB-FACTION: White Scars

 

HQ:

WARLORD: Khan on Bike (110) 

TRAITS: Chogorian Storm

   

Chaplain in Terminator Armour (120)

CHAPTER COMMAND UPGRADE: Master of Sanctity 

LITANIES: Catechism of Fire 

 

 

TROOPS:

Infiltrator Squad (120)

4x Infiltrator

1x Infiltrator Sergeant 

 

Tactical Squad (123)

4x Space Marine

1x Space Marine Sergeant: Plasma pistol

1x Space Marine: Plasma gun

 

Tactical Squad (133)

4x Space Marine

1x Space Marine Sergeant: Power fist

1x Space Marine: Missile launcher   

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

Eliminator Squad (90)

2x Eliminator

1x Eliminator Sergeant   

 

Adeptus Astartes Outrider Detachment ( 3CP - 565PT )

 

SUB-FACTION: White Scars

 

HQ:

Primaris Chaplain on Bike (115)   

LITANIES: Canticle of Hate (Aura) 

 

FAST ATTACK

Outrider Squad (150)

2x Outrider

1x Outrider Sergeant

   

Outrider Squad (150)

2x Outrider

1x Outrider Sergeant

 

Outrider Squad (150)

2x Outrider

1x Outrider Sergeant   

 

Adeptus Astartes Outrider Detachment ( 3CP - 675PT )

 

SUB-FACTION: White Scars

 

HQ:

Chaplain (105) Jump pack 

LITANIES: Exhortation of Rage 

 

FAST ATTACK

Assault Squad (210)

1x Assault Marine Sergeant: Power fist, Jump pack

9x Assault Marine: Jump pack

   

Bike Squad (210)

1x Attack Bike

1x Biker Sergeant: Combi-grav

3x Space Marine Biker

1x Space Marine Biker: Flamer

  

Storm Speeder Hailstrike (150)     

 

Total Command Points: 9/15

Reinforcement Points: 4

 

Total Points: 1996/2000

[CCE1981]

First off, your spending a lot of Command Points on additional Detachments when you have slots available in your Battalion detachment.  

 

Power fist in your Missile Launcher Tactical Sqaud?  are they gonna run into combat?  seems like they would want to avoid it.  If you want the power fist place it in the plasmagun, combi-plasma squad, they are the ones that are getting in close.

 

Drop the assault Squad, Vanguard are far better for the minimal points increase, and cost an elite slot, which you aren't using atm.

 

You are severally lacking anti-tank.  You need to shore that up,

 

Chaplain in Terminator Armor has no value, he really should be dropped, and if you dwindle down to a single detachment, you can go with a Chaplain on Outrider.

 

If you are going with a Successor Chapter confusingly you can't take a Khan on a Bike, though a Captain on Bike is still really good, and should be better.

 

I would add a Librarian with a Jump Pack.  There are an increasing number of units that are limited in the number of wounds they can take per phase, and White Scars psychic Powers are pretty good.

[Riddlesworth]

Don't need 2 outrider detachments and a battalion here. Battalion and Outrider will do what you need.

[geektom]

First off, your spending a lot of Command Points on additional Detachments when you have slots available in your Battalion detachment.  

 

Power fist in your Missile Launcher Tactical Sqaud?  are they gonna run into combat?  seems like they would want to avoid it.  If you want the power fist place it in the plasmagun, combi-plasma squad, they are the ones that are getting in close.

 

Drop the assault Squad, Vanguard are far better for the minimal points increase, and cost an elite slot, which you aren't using atm.

 

You are severally lacking anti-tank.  You need to shore that up,

 

Chaplain in Terminator Armor has no value, he really should be dropped, and if you dwindle down to a single detachment, you can go with a Chaplain on Outrider.

 

If you are going with a Successor Chapter confusingly you can't take a Khan on a Bike, though a Captain on Bike is still really good, and should be better.

 

I would add a Librarian with a Jump Pack.  There are an increasing number of units that are limited in the number of wounds they can take per phase, and White Scars psychic Powers are pretty good.

 

First of all, thanks so much for your detailed reply- I really appreciate it.

 

I clearly need to go back and read about CP again- i though taking the extra detachment would gain me CP, not cost them. Thanks for calling that out. That being the case, is there any advantage to taking more than one detachment? Getting the extra Fast Attack slots, I assume?

 

Thanks for the call out on Successor Chapter, too- I was afraid of that- so there is no more just playing a Successor Chapter "as" a Founding Chapter? I have to choose the Inheritors of the Primarch tactic, instead? And that means no Khan because they have White Scars specifically as a Keyword? Well, shoot. I suppose Captain on Bike it is... I have an older model of a kit bashed jet bike I can use in a pinch.

 

On your other tips, I was trying top maximize the models I have done and painted to help make time for the ones I need to buy and paint- but those are great tips. Man, I love that Chaplain in Terminator model, lol.

 

Is there a Librarian with Jump Pack model? 

 

Thanks again for your patience!

Don't need 2 outrider detachments and a battalion here. Battalion and Outrider will do what you need.

 

Yeah, this makes me feel a bit dumb, but I think I am misunderstanding how detachments and CP work- I thought I was generating more CP while allowing me more Fast Attack slots.

[CCE1981]

9th edition changes detachments from granted CPs to Costing CPs.  Yes, the only advantage to adding detachments is more slots.  

 

Your Captain doesn't "need" to be on a bike. I speculated a few different loadouts,  of course you can still put him on a bike.

 

Yeah the Terminator Chaplain Models are pretty awesome looking.  Unless you take some Terminators or Gravis units he really isn't that useful.  

 

I don't think there is a Librarian with Jump Pack model but they're easy to do a kitbash or conversion for.  

[geektom]

@CCE1981 without taking tanks myself, what solutions would you bring to deal with opposing tanks?

[CCE1981]

Multi-melta attack bikes are great. ATVs are more expensive but survivable, Vanguard with Thunderhammers. A bike Squad with two meltaguns, a combi-melta, and multi-melta attack bike can do well in White Scars. Only other suggestion is Multi-Melta Contemptor Dreadnoughts, with an 8” movement non-degrading profile they can add weight, and maybe distract anti-tank fire from your bikes.

 

On the Vanguard with Thunderhammers, add you Librarian with Plume of the Plainstrider Relic, and the Ride the Winds psychic Power and you get +3” to your Charge roll. Just add Chapter Master or Chaplain Re-Rolls to hit and they’ll hit like a truck.

[geektom]

Multi-melta attack bikes are great. ATVs are more expensive but survivable, Vanguard with Thunderhammers. A bike Squad with two meltaguns, a combi-melta, and multi-melta attack bike can do well in White Scars. Only other suggestion is Multi-Melta Contemptor Dreadnoughts, with an 8” movement non-degrading profile they can add weight, and maybe distract anti-tank fire from your bikes.

 

On the Vanguard with Thunderhammers, add you Librarian with Plume of the Plainstrider Relic, and the Ride the Winds psychic Power and you get +3” to your Charge roll. Just add Chapter Master or Chaplain Re-Rolls to hit and they’ll hit like a truck.

 

Ok, those are good notes- I have to see what I currently have my VV equipped with, and if I can find the multi-melta for the attack bike I have. 

[geektom]

ok, here is the updated/streamlined list. Please keep in mind, the individual loadouts are because that is what I have: ie, both my tactical sgts have a powerfist because I built them that way. If I have time, I can go back and do replacements, but I need to start with a core list that I can finish in time for the tournament. I only have a couple of hours a week modeling time each week, so I have to be smart how I use it. All 9th edition/Primaris models will be new. Anything previous to that I have painted or mostly painted.

 

I am hoping I don't have to change the base size of my old models, but have to allow time for that just in case.

I have heard from a few folks that 3 Outrider squads isn't the best idea- I hear that, but I am committed to the theme. I have close to zero chance of winning my battle anyway, so I want to go "vrrrooom vrooom!" as much as possible.

Any critical errors, let me know- and thanks for setting me straight on CP!
 

Strikeforce - Grand Tournament (9CP - 1998PT - 2PT)

 

Battalion Detachment ( 3CP - 1382PT )

HQ:

WARLORD: Captain on Bike (105) Power sword

TRAITS: Chogorian Storm

Chaplain (105) Jump pack

RELICS: Master-Crafted Weapon (White Scars)

LITANIES: Exhortation of Rage

 

TROOPS:

Infiltrator Squad (168)

6x Infiltrator

1x Infiltrator Sergeant

Tactical Squad (210)

7x Space Marine

1x Space Marine Sergeant: Astartes chainsword, Power fist 1x Space Marine: Flamer 1x Space Marine: Missile launcher

Tactical Squad (215)

7x Space Marine

1x Space Marine Sergeant: Power fist 1x Space Marine: Missile launcher 1x Space Marine: Plasma gun

 

ELITES:

Vanguard Veteran Squad (209)

1x Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Relic blade, Jump pack

2x Vanguard Veteran: Astartes chainsword, Jump pack, Storm shield

2x Vanguard Veteran: Lightning claw, Lightning claw, Jump pack

2x Vanguard Veteran: Thunder hammer, Jump pack, Storm shield

 

FAST ATTACK:

Bike Squad (220)

1x Attack Bike: Multi-melta

1x Biker Sergeant: Power sword

3x Space Marine Biker

1x Space Marine Biker: Grav-gun

 

Storm Speeder Hailstrike (150)

 

Outrider Detachment ( 3CP - 590PT )

HQ:

Primaris Chaplain on Bike (140)

CHAPTER COMMAND UPGRADE: Master of Sanctity

LITANIES: Canticle of Hate (Aura)

 

FAST ATTACK:

Outrider Squad (150)

2x Outrider

1x Outrider Sergeant

Outrider Squad (150)

2x Outrider

1x Outrider Sergeant

Outrider Squad (150)

2x Outrider

1x Outrider Sergeant

[CCE1981]

Unless your secret Nurgle worshippers, I would drop your tactical squads and Infiltrator squad to 5-man.  Add a Helix on your Infiltrators to mitigate wounds, and try to get a Librarian with a Jump Pack to run with your Vanguard in there.  If you have to make Vanguard just make one a Librarian.  +2' Charge AND Deny Overwatch against a charging Unit is very good.  

[geektom]

Unless your secret Nurgle worshippers, I would drop your tactical squads and Infiltrator squad to 5-man.  Add a Helix on your Infiltrators to mitigate wounds, and try to get a Librarian with a Jump Pack to run with your Vanguard in there.  If you have to make Vanguard just make one a Librarian.  +2' Charge AND Deny Overwatch against a charging Unit is very good.  

 

ok, you’ve convinced me I need a Libby with a Jump Pack- now I just have to make it!

 

I was thinking taking a few extra troops would help mitigate wounds and allow for the extra weapon choice- not worth it?

[CCE1981]

The problem is that at greater than 5 models blast weapons are getting a minimum of three shots at you.  A 3-man squad of Incpetors with Plasma Incinerators for example, will have 18 shots against you, instead of 6d3.   

[geektom]

The problem is that at greater than 5 models blast weapons are getting a minimum of three shots at you.  A 3-man squad of Incpetors with Plasma Incinerators for example, will have 18 shots against you, instead of 6d3.   

 Got it. That makes sense!

[geektom]

The problem is that at greater than 5 models blast weapons are getting a minimum of three shots at you.  A 3-man squad of Incpetors with Plasma Incinerators for example, will have 18 shots against you, instead of 6d3.   

should I slim down the V Vet squad then, too?

[CCE1981]

How many pts would you have left over?

[geektom]

How many pts would you have left over?

if I scale the 3 troop squads down to 5, add Librarian + jump pack (no other equipment change) I have 140 points left over.

 

I could beef up the V Vets, or take one of the Tactical all the way up to 10? I don’t like having no missle launchers now. Doesn’t that make me really vulnerable to flyers?

[CCE1981]

If you can find 25 more pts you can add either a 3-man Plasma Inceptor Squad or a 3-man Multi-Melta Attack Bike Squad.

[geektom]

I could take away the Chapter Master upgrade from the Primaris Chaplain on Bike?

[CCE1981]

I wouldn’t do that.

[geektom]

I wouldn’t do that.

it doesn’t look like I can take the Plume relic since I am a succession chapter. Libby still work taking?

 

Any of the available relics you really recommend?

[CCE1981]

You just need to use a Stratagem in the White Scars Supplement, Gift of the Khans, to take the Plume of the Plainstrider.

[geektom]

You just need to use a Stratagem in the White Scars Supplement, Gift of the Khans, to take the Plume of the Plainstrider.

Can I do that as a Successor Chapter?

[CCE1981]

Only White Scars Successors can use it.

[geektom]

Hey all, just a quick update- been working through painting my list and I am concerned I won't be able to finish the Storm Speeder in time for an upcoming tournament.

 

Also, I have swapped out the Chaplain with Jump Pack for a Libby to go along with my Vanguard Vets.

If I drop the Storm Speeder, what else should I take? At this point, I can only substitute it with models I have completed:
 

• I could reduce points other places and take a Land Raider
• I could bulk up the infantry units and potentially add another 5-man first born Assault squad
• I could add a couple of Rhinos for the infantry
• I could bulk out the regular bike squad
• I could do a combination of a few more models and beefing up the outfitting- like make the Captain a Chapter Master

Open to any suggestions that don't involve adding any new Primaris models, or I will be in the same boat as finishing the Speeder.

Thanks!

[geektom]

If I take out the Speeder, and reduce the infantry back to minimum size, with minimal upgrades, I have 336 points to work with:

 

Storm Brothers Fast v4 Adeptus Astartes - Strikeforce - Grand Tournament ( 9CP - 1664PT - 336PT )

 

Adeptus Astartes Battalion Detachment ( 3CP - 919PT ) SUB-FACTION: White Scars HQ WARLORD: Captain on Bike (100)

TRAITS: Chogorian Storm

Librarian (115) Force sword, Jump pack

PSYCHIC POWERS: Lightning Call, Ride the Winds

 

TROOPS

Infiltrator Squad (130)

3x Infiltrator

1x Infiltrator Sergeant

1x Infiltrator: Helix gauntlet     

Tactical Squad (100)

4x Space Marine

1x Space Marine Sergeant: Power fist     

Tactical Squad (100)

4x Space Marine

1x Space Marine Sergeant: Power fist     

 

ELITES

Vanguard Veteran Squad (164)

1x Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Plasma pistol, Relic blade, Jump pack

2x Vanguard Veteran: Lightning claw, Lightning claw, Jump pack

2x Vanguard Veteran: Thunder hammer, Jump pack, Storm shield     

 

FAST ATTACK

Bike Squad (210)

1x Attack Bike: Multi-melta

1x Biker Sergeant: Astartes chainsword

4x Space Marine Biker     

 

Adeptus Astartes Outrider Detachment ( 3CP - 565PT ) SUB-FACTION: White Scars HQ Primaris Chaplain on Bike (115)

LITANIES: Canticle of Hate (Aura)

 

FAST ATTACK

Outrider Squad (150)

2x Outrider

1x Outrider Sergeant     

Outrider Squad (150)

2x Outrider

1x Outrider Sergeant     

Outrider Squad (150)

2x Outrider

1x Outrider Sergeant     

 

Total Command Points: 6/15 Reinforcement Points: 336 Total Points: 1664/2000