Codex Incoming!

[BitsHammer]

Did anyone else notice this model in this mornings Community Email?

Doesn't look like anything from the current line or that has been announced.

It is a conversion based on Junith Eruita. I also did a doubletake, but I recognized the mace.

I now know what I'm going to be using for my dogmata model instead of the awkward generic one.

Good luck getting that head though, it's the Canoness' from the Limited Edition Sisters box.

[RolandTHTG]

I actually have that box, but won't try to steal the head. I like the idea of a Helmeted Dogmata, but Junith's model provides a good robed body with better mace and arm positioning.

[Montford]

Celestine will have to take her Geminae now, so I wonder, with whatever rules changes/ additions they will have in their data slate, how well she will play on the table and if she'll measure up to the points.

 

Also noticed something in the Troops entry in the Munitorium Field Manual: Troops can be taken in squads of 20 models now. I am interested to see what the Order Convictions will be in the Codex; a full squad of Sacred Rose might be very hard to shoot off of an objective. We'll have to see if it will be worth trying.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Montford

[BitsHammer]

Celestine will have to take her Geminae now, so I wonder, with whatever rules changes/ additions they will have in their data slate, how well she will play on the table and if she'll measure up to the points.

 

Also noticed something in the Troops entry in the Munitorium Field Manual: Troops can be taken in squads of 20 models now. I am interested to see what the Order Convictions will be in the Codex; a full squad of Sacred Rose might be very hard to shoot off of an objective. We'll have to see if it will be worth trying.

Nice to see the 20 girl squad option come back. Though I won't be shocked if they limit special weapons to just the stuff in the box.

 

OoOML might get some use out of 20 woman squads since it's harder to remove 20 bodies with a 3+ save (plus whatever buffs you have) meaning they're more likely to capitalize on the buff if it remains unchanged.

 

I'm mostly interested in the "build your own order" rules as I'd love the faith die mechanic from OoOML but paired with a different small buff.

[CaptainMarsh]

Sadly it appears we get nothing new today in terms of info.

[Bonzi]

Sadly it appears we get nothing new today in terms of info.

I was quite bummed out about that myself. They've got a lot of ground to cover tomorrow. Although with the Sisters likely being a two week release window (Castigator and Banner Duo still in the wilds) it could be they are saving some info for articles next week.

[BitsHammer]

I was hoping to see some of the custom order rules today, but if it's a two week release then we might get those next week.

 

I haven't been paying attention, what have the LE codexes been going for this edition versuses the regular ones?

[excelite]

AFAIK it’s exactly the same minus the warhammer branding artwork overlay

[BitsHammer]

AFAIK it’s exactly the same minus the warhammer branding artwork overlay

Good to know. Wasn't sure if they were charging extra this edition like they did in some past editions.

[excelite]

Just checked the mechanicus le, since I don’t want to spread falsehoods and this is from the description:

 

The collector’s edition is a premium quality codex designed for ultimate fans of the Adeptus Mechanicus. It comes with printed page edges, a soft-touch cover with foil blocking, and a black 1/4" ribbon marker.

So there’s an ribbon also ;)

[G8Keeper]

We have a Holy Order article up:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/04/faithful-serenity-pure-rage-or-just-plain-ol-fire-pick-the-holy-order-thats-perfect-for-your-adepta-sororitas/

[Banjulhu]

So they decided to kick the Bloody Rose into the dirt by down grading their unique strategem and their conviction.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Banjulhu

[Bonzi]

So they decided to kick the Bloody Rose into the dirt by down grading their unique strategem and their conviction.

Some amount of tweaking and nerfs was to be expected. Bloody Rose was head and shoulders above the other orders and was over represented on the tournament scene where Sisters had a very high win rate already.

[BitsHammer]

So they decided to kick the Bloody Rose into the dirt by down grading their unique strategem and their conviction.

Bloody Rose and Valorous Heart where near auto-picks before. They're still good, but they're a little less good to try and balance the Orders a little more.

 

I feel like the rework across the army looks pretty good as a whole. Like Argent Shroud advancing and counting as stationary for all shooting (sprinting Retributors anyone?), OoOML being tweaked so it doesn't work if you heal the unit back to full, making Ebon Chalice actually worth using, ect.

[Banjulhu]

 

So they decided to kick the Bloody Rose into the dirt by down grading their unique strategem and their conviction.

Some amount of tweaking and nerfs was to be expected. Bloody Rose was head and shoulders above the other orders and was over represented on the tournament scene where Sisters had a very high win rate already.

 

And I dont disagree with the need to pull them back a little but they could have at least changed the stratagem into something that was still worth looking at.

 

Nat 6s to hit auto-wounding is an utterly forgetable free buff on the Black Templar who would really want to spend CP on it for a single unit?

[BitsHammer]

 

 

So they decided to kick the Bloody Rose into the dirt by down grading their unique strategem and their conviction.

Some amount of tweaking and nerfs was to be expected. Bloody Rose was head and shoulders above the other orders and was over represented on the tournament scene where Sisters had a very high win rate already.

 

And I dont disagree with the need to pull them back a little but they could have at least changed the stratagem into something that was still worth looking at.

 

Nat 6s to hit auto-wounding is an utterly forgetable free buff on the Black Templar who would really want to spend CP on it for a single unit?

 

I think we can throw more dice at things from said unit than the Templars can, and it's still really useful when dealing with high toughness targets since Repentia cap out at S7 this edition. Less dice you have to roll the better.

[Montford]

We have a Holy Order article up:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/04/faithful-serenity-pure-rage-or-just-plain-ol-fire-pick-the-holy-order-thats-perfect-for-your-adepta-sororitas/

In light of the 9th Edition change to Overwatch (making it a stratagem) the Conviction for the Order of the Sacred Rose looks like an improvement over what it was. Losing the Overwatch on 5+ is no longer a big deal. Their ability to regain spent Miracle Dice improved! Auto-passing attrition remained the same.

[BitsHammer]

 

We have a Holy Order article up:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/04/faithful-serenity-pure-rage-or-just-plain-ol-fire-pick-the-holy-order-thats-perfect-for-your-adepta-sororitas/

In light of the 9th Edition change to Overwatch (making it a stratagem) the Conviction for the Order of the Sacred Rose looks like an improvement over what it was. Losing the Overwatch on 5+ is no longer a big deal. Their ability to regain spent Miracle Dice improved! Auto-passing attrition remained the same.

 

Yeah, if Ebon Chalice gets the award for "most improved", Sacred Rose gets the silver on the same contest. Definitely a straight upgrade that makes it more likely to be used. I like the swap from "bolt weapons" to "shooting attacks in the Shooting Phase" for their stratagem.

[Banjulhu]

 

 I think we can throw more dice at things from said unit than the Templars can, and it's still really useful when dealing with high toughness targets since Repentia cap out at S7 this edition. Less dice you have to roll the better.

I was doing the maths on it. The most attacks a BR focused melee unit can put out is 31 (10 charging celestians/zephyrim) which turns into about 5 auto-wounds on average that's not exactly something to get excited for.

 

The BR will still likely be the strongest option unless there is something dumb in the DIY orders because the army has a lot of melee orientated units that can use the AP boost, I just dont like rules that take up space for little to no reason and Tear Them Down is certainly looking like one of those kinds of rule.

 

I'm possibly also annoyed that Seraphim are likely back to being a bad choice again across all orders particularly now they are competing with Dominions and Zephyrim for a place.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Banjulhu

[G8Keeper]

 

 

 I think we can throw more dice at things from said unit than the Templars can, and it's still really useful when dealing with high toughness targets since Repentia cap out at S7 this edition. Less dice you have to roll the better.

I was doing the maths on it. The most attacks a BR focused melee unit can put out is 31 (10 charging celestians/zephyrim) which turns into about 5 auto-wounds on average that's not exactly something to get excited for.

 

The BR will still likely be the strongest option unless there is something dumb in the DIY orders because the army has a lot of melee orientated units that can use the AP boost, I just dont like rules that take up space for little to no reason and Tear Them Down is certainly looking like one of those kinds of rule.

 

I'm possibly also annoyed that Seraphim are likely back to being a bad choice again across all orders particularly now they are competing with Dominions and Zephyrim for a place.

 

 

But it's likely you will charge and fight with a fair few units/attacks over the course of a battle no?

[Banjulhu]

 

 

 

 I think we can throw more dice at things from said unit than the Templars can, and it's still really useful when dealing with high toughness targets since Repentia cap out at S7 this edition. Less dice you have to roll the better.

I was doing the maths on it. The most attacks a BR focused melee unit can put out is 31 (10 charging celestians/zephyrim) which turns into about 5 auto-wounds on average that's not exactly something to get excited for.

 

The BR will still likely be the strongest option unless there is something dumb in the DIY orders because the army has a lot of melee orientated units that can use the AP boost, I just dont like rules that take up space for little to no reason and Tear Them Down is certainly looking like one of those kinds of rule.

 

I'm possibly also annoyed that Seraphim are likely back to being a bad choice again across all orders particularly now they are competing with Dominions and Zephyrim for a place.

 

 

But it's likely you will charge and fight with a fair few units/attacks over the course of a battle no?

 

I'm not sure what you are getting at?

 

Edit

 

Oh I see what you mean.

 

Getting multiple chances to use a small buff that has a cost associated with it every time does not make it better.

 

Especially when you start taking into account casualties because 5 auto wounds from 30 attacks will become 3 from 20 and then 1 from 10.

 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Banjulhu

[Vanger]

 

 

 I think we can throw more dice at things from said unit than the Templars can, and it's still really useful when dealing with high toughness targets since Repentia cap out at S7 this edition. Less dice you have to roll the better.

I was doing the maths on it. The most attacks a BR focused melee unit can put out is 31 (10 charging celestians/zephyrim) which turns into about 5 auto-wounds on average that's not exactly something to get excited for.

 

The BR will still likely be the strongest option unless there is something dumb in the DIY orders because the army has a lot of melee orientated units that can use the AP boost, I just dont like rules that take up space for little to no reason and Tear Them Down is certainly looking like one of those kinds of rule.

 

I'm possibly also annoyed that Seraphim are likely back to being a bad choice again across all orders particularly now they are competing with Dominions and Zephyrim for a place.

 

Old maths Zephyrim vs T5: 31 attacks, 21 hits, 15 wound.(+1 to wound and re-roll) New maths 31 attacks, 5 auto wounds, 16 hits, 7 wounds (just re-roll) for a total of 13 total wounds.

 

After doing the numbers for some other cases, on close combat focused units, the new ability is a ~15% loss.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Vanger

[G8Keeper]

 

I'm not sure what you are getting at?

 

Edit

 

Oh I see what you mean.

 

Getting multiple chances to use a small buff that has a cost associated with it every time does not make it better.

 

Especially when you start taking into account casualties because 5 auto wounds from 30 attacks will become 3 from 20 and then 1 from 10.

 

 

Ignore me, I'm getting confuzzled thinking this was part of Quick to Anger. At 1cp it's not terrible, not amazing, I'll probably use it when charging with certain units depending on what other combat strats we get.

Edited June 4, 2021 by G8Keeper

[toaae]

Bloody Rose is probably fine. The stratagem being super-nerfed* most likely means you won't have 140-ish point sisters unit dunking on Daemon Primarchs and Knights, but there's probably still enough in the faction to punch hard.

 

Valorous Heart is the latest to lose army-wide FNP, and the AP-ignoring part becomes AP reduction. I'd imagine that if Imagifiers still have "Tale of the Stoic", that it will also be an AP reduction (hopefully they still stack). 

 

Really hoping that there will be a good combination of custom traits for my Order.

 

 

EDIT: *= So I saw somewhere else someone claim that 6s to-hit auto-wounding is actually better than +1 to wound when you're strength is lower. Based on some quick math, I think this checks out, IF you don't have re-rolls to wound.

Edited June 4, 2021 by toaae

[Banjulhu]

The bloody rose will live and die by how much Imagifiers, Repentia and Zephyrim change but will likely be fine given we know what the new celestians with maces will be able to put out.

And you never know one of the prayers for the Priest keyword may be a sisters copy of Exhortation of Rage.