Codex Incoming!

[taikishi]

Retributors being more mobile than superhuman devastators and the fast attack dominions in the same book, Zephyrim having a reroll buff purely to offset the game's basic stat system being against them, suicidal Repentia having refractor fields when standing next to the right people despite being kicked out of the standard hierarchy, Celestine's body guards having to make seperate charge rolls to keep up, these things people were used to all made perfect sense but what seems to be some quite careful internal balance is awful because it comes with new eccentricities people aren't used to. Right.

 

From internet forums you'd get the idea that the rules team should literally never bother with internal balance because the list optimisation freaks only care about balance between factions and actively want some units/colour schemes to suck so they can feel clever about not owning them.

 

 

.

And EC is only worth using if you play mono-Sisters. If you're like me and actually want to play an Imperium army (such as bringing guard), EC loses half of its Order Trait and that bothers me.

 

I'm not so sure about this. Miracle die gain is now mono-faction limited but Sacred Rites don't say anything like that so it might be the other faction traits that care more about this.

 

Yeah, I made my comment based on pre-review data. Though even if the reverse is true and Sacred Rites aren't mono-faction only (I haven't seen a confirmation or denial of this yet, but am still looking), this also means Sacred Rose and Martyred Lady lose part of their Order Conviction. If both only apply to mono-faction, then Ebon Chalice loses their entire Order Conviction.

Edited June 5, 2021 by taikishi

[Blurf]

 

Retributors being more mobile than superhuman devastators and the fast attack dominions in the same book, Zephyrim having a reroll buff purely to offset the game's basic stat system being against them, suicidal Repentia having refractor fields when standing next to the right people despite being kicked out of the standard hierarchy, Celestine's body guards having to make seperate charge rolls to keep up, these things people were used to all made perfect sense but what seems to be some quite careful internal balance is awful because it comes with new eccentricities people aren't used to. Right.

 

From internet forums you'd get the idea that the rules team should literally never bother with internal balance because the list optimisation freaks only care about balance between factions and actively want some units/colour schemes to suck so they can feel clever about not owning them.

 

 

.

And EC is only worth using if you play mono-Sisters. If you're like me and actually want to play an Imperium army (such as bringing guard), EC loses half of its Order Trait and that bothers me.

 

I'm not so sure about this. Miracle die gain is now mono-faction limited but Sacred Rites don't say anything like that so it might be the other faction traits that care more about this.

 

Yeah, I made my comment based on pre-review data. Though even if the reverse is true and Sacred Rites aren't mono-faction only (I haven't seen a confirmation or denial of this yet, but am still looking), this also means Sacred Rose and Martyred Lady lose part of their Order Conviction. If both only apply to mono-faction, then Ebon Chalice loses their entire Order Conviction.

 

Let's be real though, if miracle dice are mono-faction, Sister soup is dead.

 

Which makes the fact that we don't really have a reliable long range weapon platform anymore something of a problem.

[AlexAbroad]

Am I bummed that a bunch of the units I've worked on recently got nerfed decently hard? Sure. But I'm MUCH more unhappy that the BSS load out I've been using since 6th edition is no longer possible. Now that blows.

I fear I have the same concern as you. Am I reading the goonhammer review right that the following BSS loadout is no longer legal?

 

Sister superior

7 sisters with boltguns

1 sister with flamer

1 sister with heavy flamer

[taikishi]

Correct. You need a 10th model to get that second weapon, and twenty gets you either two more specials or another special or heavy.

 

Edit: 0/2 on posts today. Just noticed the Superior to make the unit ten strong

Edited June 5, 2021 by taikishi

[BitsHammer]

Well scalpers saved me $30USD. LE codex was unavailable to order in NA the same time the pre order went up.

[Blurf]

Well scalpers saved me $30USD. LE codex was unavailable to order in NA the same time the pre order went up.

It was easily the worst of the 3 cover arts so no big loss.

 

 

 

[TheFinisher4Ever]

 

Am I bummed that a bunch of the units I've worked on recently got nerfed decently hard? Sure. But I'm MUCH more unhappy that the BSS load out I've been using since 6th edition is no longer possible. Now that blows.

I fear I have the same concern as you. Am I reading the goonhammer review right that the following BSS loadout is no longer legal?

 

Sister superior

7 sisters with boltguns

1 sister with flamer

1 sister with heavy flamer

No, that's possible since you have 10 sisters. Unfortunately the squad I ran was 5 sisters with 1 meltagun and 1 heavy flamer in an immolator. And that's no longer possible.

[BitsHammer]

 

 

Well scalpers saved me $30USD. LE codex was unavailable to order in NA the same time the pre order went up.

It was easily the worst of the 3 cover arts so no big loss.

I like it, but you do you.

[Blurf]

 

 

Well scalpers saved me $30USD. LE codex was unavailable to order in NA the same time the pre order went up.

It was easily the worst of the 3 cover arts so no big loss.

I like it, but you do you.

 

Fair enough. My condolences then.

[BitsHammer]

 

 

Am I bummed that a bunch of the units I've worked on recently got nerfed decently hard? Sure. But I'm MUCH more unhappy that the BSS load out I've been using since 6th edition is no longer possible. Now that blows.

I fear I have the same concern as you. Am I reading the goonhammer review right that the following BSS loadout is no longer legal?

 

Sister superior

7 sisters with boltguns

1 sister with flamer

1 sister with heavy flamer

No, that's possible since you have 10 sisters. Unfortunately the squad I ran was 5 sisters with 1 meltagun and 1 heavy flamer in an immolator. And that's no longer possible.

Feels like GW saw the MSU build being played so heavilly so walked back the benefit a little to give you a reason to play larger squads. I know it sucks for the MSU players, but it seems to make more options viable in the book which is something GW has been pushing towards for some time.

[Blurf]

 

 

 

Am I bummed that a bunch of the units I've worked on recently got nerfed decently hard? Sure. But I'm MUCH more unhappy that the BSS load out I've been using since 6th edition is no longer possible. Now that blows.

I fear I have the same concern as you. Am I reading the goonhammer review right that the following BSS loadout is no longer legal?

 

Sister superior

7 sisters with boltguns

1 sister with flamer

1 sister with heavy flamer

No, that's possible since you have 10 sisters. Unfortunately the squad I ran was 5 sisters with 1 meltagun and 1 heavy flamer in an immolator. And that's no longer possible.

Feels like GW saw the MSU build being played so heavilly so walked back the benefit a little to give you a reason to play larger squads. I know it sucks for the MSU players, but it seems to make more options viable in the book which is something GW has been pushing towards for some time.

 

They actually did a really good job making 20 blocks of sisters useful even without nerfing MSU though. They're the most efficient target for giving out a 4++, the Defenders of the Faith stratagem is really good, they benefit the most of any unit from hymns, they combo best with the dogmata, they get the most utility out of a hospitaller, they're arguably the best use of Vahl's targeted buff, there's a lot of really positive things going on for 20 blobs of sisters in their own right.

 

It's just a really unfortunate change. In their zeal to make more options viable they accidentally just swapped one loadout for another.

[AlexAbroad]

 

 

Am I bummed that a bunch of the units I've worked on recently got nerfed decently hard? Sure. But I'm MUCH more unhappy that the BSS load out I've been using since 6th edition is no longer possible. Now that blows.

I fear I have the same concern as you. Am I reading the goonhammer review right that the following BSS loadout is no longer legal?

 

Sister superior

7 sisters with boltguns

1 sister with flamer

1 sister with heavy flamer

No, that's possible since you have 10 sisters. Unfortunately the squad I ran was 5 sisters with 1 meltagun and 1 heavy flamer in an immolator. And that's no longer possible.

Ok thanks - I haven’t played much 40K for a few years, just painting away with the sisters, so wasn’t sure if the sister superior counted towards the 10 needed to take a special AND heavy.

 

Sucks about the 5 squad loadout though. When I did play more that was my go to for smaller games.

 

I am glad to see the return of the 20 sister blobs though :)

[ThePenitentOne]

So glad I got the goon review before reading the book because I think there assessment is dead on: if you knew the old book well, the initial shock hurts, but once you get over the knee jerk reaction, you'll come around. I get my disappointment out of the way now, so that when I crack the spine on the new shiny, I can focus on the good.

 

Some of the things that disappoint me will bother others far less, and some of the things that really disappoint others don't bother me as much.

 

I am bummed out that it now seems like pure Ministorum detachments are no longer possible- you can now never have more Missionaries than Sister HQs. I don't think anyone else will care, but my story is that the convent is so pure that upright sisters don't share detachments with the Penitent units. I've been organizing my army this way since 2003, when I fielded a 1500 point Holy Choir of pure sisters and a 1500 point Penitent Legion led by an Inquisitor, rather than fielding a single 3k list.

 

I'm also not happy about how much harder it is to generate MD. I often built lists with the intent to maximize faith, and now that is much, much harder to do. I get it- we've got a faith based agenda, so my old lists would have knocked that out of the park every single game without even breaking a sweat. Even now, it won't be that hard, but under old rules, I could basically count it turn one because no power in the verse could stop me from maxing it.

 

Some of the stuff that really grates on others, like the Exorcist nerfs, really doesn't hit me; that firing without LOS strat is great, and for me more than makes up for the nerf. Deadly descent kicked me in the teeth, but I get how unfun it was for others to see three Seraphim Inferno squads in reserve and know that I was going to delete an armoured unit every turn for three turns and that there was very little they were going to be able to do about it.

 

The big winners here are Dominions, which suits me fine since my Living Saint was always going to begin the game as a humble Dom. I always envisioned MSU doms + a charater in an Immo, but I'm seeing the value of putting an MSU dom unit and an MSU sarcisant unit in a rhino.

 

Can't wait for the goon review of their crusade content, assuming it comes before the dex is in my hands.

 

The preorder is done; because the purchase had to include the stuff I told my store to hold from last month, and because financially the most I could spend was the minimum requirement to secure my collector coins, the only unit I could afford to preorder this time around was the Paragons. That means I've got 13 sisters walkers + Karamazov for now. Still going to look good on the table. If I spring for Morvenn and another unit of Paragons before my store runs out of coins, I can double so that I can auction off a full set somewhere down the road and still have a copy of the coin I like the most left over for use as an objective marker.

 

Going in eyes wide open, but still expecting to be able to appreciate the dex once it's in my hands.

[Montford]

After watching the four hour marathon from Skarry it seems that none of our Orders are actually bad. My shooty Sacred Rose might be making a comeback :)

 

I was bummed that the castigator was not T8, but it does have a nice weapon array.

 

MD are harder to obtain: I don't recall them saying we get one at the beginning of the Battle Round anymore for one thing.

 

Celestine seems to have been buffed, as were the Geminae, and even though she must take her Geminae now the points are less than they would have been if you had fielded them before this Codex hit.

 

The Convictions in the make-your-own Order list don't seem to bad either.

 

Morvenn is a beast.

 

There's a local one day tournament in July which I'm signed up for: I am going to have a lot of fun working out and playtesting lists for it! I do have a feeling that some of my comrades who are chained to a single play style for Sisters are not having a good day today.

[toaae]

I can always appreciate how bad some people can feel about new codices when it makes their standing collection unusable, or at the very least far less efficient. I'm a guy who collects stuff based on a simple criteria: what models do I like, and are they good on the table? Time and money are limiting factors, so I choose to invest in units I can feel good about in a game. I really do empathize with anyone who suddenly has to build extra bolter sisters to fill out units, or previously had multiple units of Repentia and Retributors.

For myself and this codex, however, I am ecstatic.

 

I have a small collection, so nothing of mine is invalid. I do have small Battle Sisters Squads with double storm bolter, but I think I'll just be grouping those up into dominion squads now. I've got a box of Repentia ready to go, and I do think a single unit of them will be valuable on the table. My Seraphim also sit unbuilt, so no feels-bad because I hadn't invested into the inferno pistols build yet. I do have a Canoness who may not see much use outside of Crusade, but that's a small thing.

However:

• I think the High Abbess is one of the best models GW has ever produced. I want to add that to my collection so bad, and she's basically an auto-include for any type of competitive list. Sure, she might catch a nerf (I think she's still the best HQ in the game at like 350 points), but I've never been one for fearing whatever arbitrary change GW will make in the future.
• I dig the SwordMace-and-Board Celestians, who seem to be a steal at 14ppm.
• A large, buffed blob of Battle Sisters is right up my ork-loving-horde-mongering alley.
• I finally feel like Flamer-weapons are worthwhile.
• I do have an Exorcist waiting to be painted, but maybe taking just one for non-LoS shooty might be decent? At the very least, I wasn't really planning on using it much before, so at worst, it's a wash.

Yeah, I definitely think there are plenty of cool models with cool rules I can still collect and enjoy, so I'm pretty optimistic. Again, my sincerest condolences if this book really knee-capped you. I do think it's a solid codex, and I can't wait to get a chance to play with it.

[Blurf]

Honestly the more I look at this book, the less interested I am in it. It feels like everything that was good saw significant downgrades and nothing that wasn't good got better in a meaningful way. None of the new stuff looks particularly great either. I traditionally get at least 3 of every unit and every character but I can't really see a compelling reason to buy anything but Morvenn.

 

Paragon suits are...okay, but I don't think they're as good as Mortifiers or Penitent engines and I have plenty of those.

 

Sacresants are...fine, but with the majority of unit buffs becoming command phase abilities, I can't really see a use for them. They're still only 1 wound so it's not like they can footslog or camp objectives and without at least a handful of buffs dropping them out of a rhino at something kinda feels like watching little kids swing at a pinata with a wiffle ball bat.

 

The dogmata doesn't offer me anything compelling over a dialogus or a hospitaller. I actually never put a whole lot of value into obsec and it's cheaper to take 2 units of cheap ministorum models to do actions.

 

The banner lady seems silly. 

 

The Castigator I refuse to buy. They can't keep doing this to Rhino Chassis tanks.

 

It was nice to be a good army while it lasted. I just wish COVID hadn't of taken a full year and change away from the previous book.

[ThePenitentOne]

I can always appreciate how bad some people can feel about new codices when it makes their standing collection unusable, or at the very least far less efficient. I'm a guy who collects stuff based on a simple criteria: what models do I like, and are they good on the table? Time and money are limiting factors, so I choose to invest in units I can feel good about in a game. I really do empathize with anyone who suddenly has to build extra bolter sisters to fill out units, or previously had multiple units of Repentia and Retributors.

 

For myself and this codex, however, I am ecstatic.

 

I have a small collection, so nothing of mine is invalid. I do have small Battle Sisters Squads with double storm bolter, but I think I'll just be grouping those up into dominion squads now. I've got a box of Repentia ready to go, and I do think a single unit of them will be valuable on the table. My Seraphim also sit unbuilt, so no feels-bad because I hadn't invested into the inferno pistols build yet. I do have a Canoness who may not see much use outside of Crusade, but that's a small thing.

 

However:

• I think the High Abbess is one of the best models GW has ever produced. I want to add that to my collection so bad, and she's basically an auto-include for any type of competitive list. Sure, she might catch a nerf (I think she's still the best HQ in the game at like 350 points), but I've never been one for fearing whatever arbitrary change GW will make in the future.
• I dig the SwordMace-and-Board Celestians, who seem to be a steal at 14ppm.
• A large, buffed blob of Battle Sisters is right up my ork-loving-horde-mongering alley.
• I finally feel like Flamer-weapons are worthwhile.
• I do have an Exorcist waiting to be painted, but maybe taking just one for non-LoS shooty might be decent? At the very least, I wasn't really planning on using it much before, so at worst, it's a wash.

Yeah, I definitely think there are plenty of cool models with cool rules I can still collect and enjoy, so I'm pretty optimistic. Again, my sincerest condolences if this book really knee-capped you. I do think it's a solid codex, and I can't wait to get a chance to play with it.

 

Hey, if you Crusade and decide to build a living saint, will you be posting regular updates?

 

Your banner/ logo is sweet, your paint rocks and your concept is great. I'd love to see a Repentia Superior become a Living Saint, and if it suits anyone's army, it's yours!

[Montford]

Honestly the more I look at this book, the less interested I am in it. It feels like everything that was good saw significant downgrades and nothing that wasn't good got better in a meaningful way. None of the new stuff looks particularly great either. I traditionally get at least 3 of every unit and every character but I can't really see a compelling reason to buy anything but Morvenn.

 

Paragon suits are...okay, but I don't think they're as good as Mortifiers or Penitent engines and I have plenty of those.

 

Sacresants are...fine, but with the majority of unit buffs becoming command phase abilities, I can't really see a use for them. They're still only 1 wound so it's not like they can footslog or camp objectives and without at least a handful of buffs dropping them out of a rhino at something kinda feels like watching little kids swing at a pinata with a wiffle ball bat.

 

The dogmata doesn't offer me anything compelling over a dialogus or a hospitaller. I actually never put a whole lot of value into obsec and it's cheaper to take 2 units of cheap ministorum models to do actions.

 

The banner lady seems silly. 

 

The Castigator I refuse to buy. They can't keep doing this to Rhino Chassis tanks.

 

It was nice to be a good army while it lasted. I just wish COVID hadn't of taken a full year and change away from the previous book.

You don't have to buy any of the new stuff to have a good Sisters army. Heck most of my army is metal.

 

I will get the book not just for new models, but also the new rules for the existing models.

 

It looks like there are Hymns which effect Engines so your PEs and Mortifiers will get buffs.

 

Stick with the Excorcist especially since there's a strat now to allow one to shoot without LOS.

 

As for no compelling reason to buy Morvenn: rerolling hits and wounds with her warlord trait!

 

But OK if you don't want her that's cool too, because Celestine has been buffed a good bit! Her flamer effect is better, her sword picked up an AP and on a natural hit of 6 the damage done is mortal. She's got damage reduction, brings back Geminae and heals them and herself. Her Geminae are tougher as well.

 

The Triumph's bracket is better if you like that HQ, and apparently can simultaneously use all six Rites!

 

Enemy psychers are not going to like us as every single faithful unit in our army, when we roll that single die Deny the Witch roll, its an auto success on a natural 6.

 

And many other non-new Units can take advantage of the stratagems to bring you glorious victory.

 

Or you can decide, without ever trying, that this army is going nowhere and you can box it up and put it in the closet.

 

Just saying though that I can't see why the new stuff will be must-haves. Everything we have is good. Sticking with the old stuff is just fine.

[BitsHammer]

I've been thinking about a couple of the changes and I think that the pistol buff being taken away from Blood Rose likely has to do with the Sacrosanct, while the Seraphim likely lost their range strat due to the Minor Orders buffing specific weapon types.

If so the changes make sense even if they're not all that great for people who were all in on Seraphim.

I want to say Retributors were changed because of the smaller board size, but then Argent Shroud lets them run and shoot, so maybe they were nerfed so people would remember the Exorcist exists?

[BitsHammer]

Thinking of the Dogmata, she lets a unit shoot and perform an action which is good if you want to raise some banners for example. Plus she doubles as a priest (as does the Dialogus) with more hymns than the Missionaries and Preachers get.

[adreal]

Fir a long time (until piety and pain) I only ran 1 Squad of rets, while 2 has been fun, going back to 1 and saving some cp will be okay.

 

I like my two exorcists, and will still use my two, with having the 2cp strat to shoot out of Los, it'll be easier to keep alive.

 

I'm going to take Vahl, she will be my high cannoness for my minor order (although, argent shroud is looking really good)

 

I'm sad that imagifiers seem less important to me, as I used to stack the ap mod with valourous heart, but, with a simple faq nerf to drukhari, they could really screw over mass poison.

 

Really excited for this book and super happy, it is a slight downgrade,sure, but not as aggressive as Blurf is making out.

[Banjulhu]

I've been thinking about a couple of the changes and I think that the pistol buff being taken away from Blood Rose likely has to do with the Sacrosanct, while the Seraphim likely lost their range strat due to the Minor Orders buffing specific weapon types.

 

If so the changes make sense even if they're not all that great for people who were all in on Seraphim.

 

I want to say Retributors were changed because of the smaller board size, but then Argent Shroud lets them run and shoot, so maybe they were nerfed so people would remember the Exorcist exists?

The simpler answer is the design team saw how Bloody Rose and Retributors were being a bit too dominant competitively and so changed them.

[BitsHammer]

 

I've been thinking about a couple of the changes and I think that the pistol buff being taken away from Blood Rose likely has to do with the Sacrosanct, while the Seraphim likely lost their range strat due to the Minor Orders buffing specific weapon types.

 

If so the changes make sense even if they're not all that great for people who were all in on Seraphim.

 

I want to say Retributors were changed because of the smaller board size, but then Argent Shroud lets them run and shoot, so maybe they were nerfed so people would remember the Exorcist exists?

The simpler answer is the design team saw how Bloody Rose and Retributors were being a bit too dominant competitively and so changed them.

 

I think that was more true on how they changed the relic and the bonus attack for BR and how they changed the way the Imagifier and VH combo (by making them not).

[CaptainMarsh]

I think giving Mortifiers 2 Ministorum Heavy Flamers and using Cleansed By Fire will be pretty good. 48 automatic S6 AP-1 hits sound good.

Edited June 6, 2021 by CaptainMarsh

[Banjulhu]

I think giving Mortifiers 2 Ministorum Heavy Flamers and using Cleansed By Fire will be pretty good. 48 automatic S6 AP-1 hits sound good.

That does sound snacky especially given they are not too expensive and are unlikely to be the priority of an opponents shooting until it's too late.