Dark Eldar Solutions

[FarFromSam]

Hey y'all, I think many of us have run into the new dark eldar by now, and I was thinking we could compile a few ways to put up a good fight.

 

First, how to deal with raiders behind obscuring terrain that are tough to interact with. Since DE don't gain the ability to advance and charge until turn two, popping them turn one can help stunt them. I have two thoughts on this. Preferred is always going first and using the 2cp pregame move to put 3 MMAB behind lines and pop a few. The other thought is more expensive and tailors the list to one matchup. Drop pod with anti vehicle weaponry for the same effect.

 

Here are some other problems I don't have solutions for.

 

The amount of ObSec they can trade with

 

The number of throwaway units. And our inability to kill enough of them.

 

Not being able to over watch when they pick.

 

Always fighting last. (Does judiciar/whirlwind strat stop this?)

[bigtrouble]

I’m not a competitive player, so my voice here isn’t from experience, but from what I’ve read throughout the last month, this is a lost cause for Marines.

 

I believe you are correct that massed close range melta is a good answer, but I’m afraid it falls short or reliable.

 

You would realistically need to be able to crack 3 raiders on turn 1, to even stand a chance in the primary score, which means you need a squad of 3 MMAB for each raider, and your chances of success are still only 50%. We simply don’t have the stratagem support to improve the odds for all 3 squads, which means at least one of those raiders gets on an objective and the game is lost.

Edited May 8, 2021 by bigtrouble

[Vulshra]

I think mono ravenwing can actually do pretty well into Dark Elder. Three MM attack bike squads + attack bikes on bike squads + black knights can reliable drop 3-5 raiders per turn. The issue is you need to follow up and smash those that jump out to make sure you aren't left over exposed

[oldmanlee]

Tbh ravenwing are the best bet against dark eldar but even then it's a huge up hill battle. You need to be able to pop the raiders at range so black knights and multi melta attack bikes are a poor choice as you need to get close and then your just trading expensive units for a fairly cheap unit in the Raider.land speeders backed up with talonmasters might be OK as you can pop the raiders at range and the talonmaster can hopefully kill what pops out of the raiders.but untill gw hopefully FAQ the book it's going to be a major uphill struggle as the books is miles better than anything other codex in the game at the moment

[G8Keeper]

Tbh ravenwing are the best bet against dark eldar but even then it's a huge up hill battle. You need to be able to pop the raiders at range so black knights and multi melta attack bikes are a poor choice as you need to get close and then your just trading expensive units for a fairly cheap unit in the Raider.land speeders backed up with talonmasters might be OK as you can pop the raiders at range and the talonmaster can hopefully kill what pops out of the raiders.but untill gw hopefully FAQ the book it's going to be a major uphill struggle as the books is miles better than anything other codex in the game at the moment

It has some poorly costed units, the Raider with Dark Lance being the prime example, as well as a couple of broken combos, but I wouldn't say the codex is miles better than anything else. If you cost Raiders right, fix the CP issue and FAQ the Dark Tech/40 attack Succubus issue it's fine and is beatable.

[oldmanlee]

 

Tbh ravenwing are the best bet against dark eldar but even then it's a huge up hill battle. You need to be able to pop the raiders at range so black knights and multi melta attack bikes are a poor choice as you need to get close and then your just trading expensive units for a fairly cheap unit in the Raider.land speeders backed up with talonmasters might be OK as you can pop the raiders at range and the talonmaster can hopefully kill what pops out of the raiders.but untill gw hopefully FAQ the book it's going to be a major uphill struggle as the books is miles better than anything other codex in the game at the moment

It has some poorly costed units, the Raider with Dark Lance being the prime example, as well as a couple of broken combos, but I wouldn't say the codex is miles better than anything else. If you cost Raiders right, fix the CP issue and FAQ the Dark Tech/40 attack Succubus issue it's fine and is beatable.

The codexs win rate at events over the last few weeks would say it's a lot better than anything else at the moment. Yeah the raider is a big issue and one of many units in the book that punch well above there weight.i think the biggest issue we face at the moment is a lot of are competitive list that where showing up at events are very elite heavy and dark eldar seem to perform very well against those type of lists

[FarFromSam]

The issue I've run into isn't them being cheap fast and obsec, it's the they way obscuring keep me from interacting with them even while I can see most of the boat. Drop pod with MM devs is my latest attempt to hang in there. I'll let ya know how it ends up.

[bigtrouble]

Dark Talons maybe? Rift cannons wound on 2s and deal 3 MW, plus volume of fire bolters. It’s a stretch but 3 Dark Talons would easily take 1 raider and could survive the turn of shooting from dark lances.

[Brother Ramael]

Dark Talons on a good day can one shot a raider I think, what about stalkers? +1 for being still and basically 6 autocannon shots seems nice vs raiders.

Reliquary of the repentant for limiting saves, Lazarus to stop the MW hemorrage, maybe flames for overwatch?

Edited May 11, 2021 by Brother Ramael

[ValourousHeart]

The codexs win rate at events over the last few weeks would say it's a lot better than anything else at the moment.

 

This kind of statement always needs a huge _*.

 

Remember that lists that are successful at tournaments are successful based on several key factors, not least of which is what did they not have to face.  DE are easy to beat if you build your list to fight DE.  The issue comes in when you have to consider what to take vs that specific DE list and also what else you might face at that tournament.

 

The DE player does not have to consider that first part, as it is highly unlikely that they will bracket up against another DE player.  And given that the field will likely consist of 50-60% Space Marines, the Space Marine list that will do well vs DE, won't do well vs other Space Marines.

[Vulshra]

Quick thought: why are we so concerned about getting stuck in with the xenos filth? We're fast enough as ravenwing to hit them with meltas, finish off anything that doesn't die to meltas with plasma fire, soften up the units that jump out with bolters, and charge with chainsword and corvus hammers in hand. Given how squishy the alien is, it seems to me we could do to them what they do to most others

[Brother_Darius]

 

The codexs win rate at events over the last few weeks would say it's a lot better than anything else at the moment.

 

This kind of statement always needs a huge _*.

 

Remember that lists that are successful at tournaments are successful based on several key factors, not least of which is what did they not have to face.  DE are easy to beat if you build your list to fight DE.  The issue comes in when you have to consider what to take vs that specific DE list and also what else you might face at that tournament.

 

The DE player does not have to consider that first part, as it is highly unlikely that they will bracket up against another DE player.  And given that the field will likely consist of 50-60% Space Marines, the Space Marine list that will do well vs DE, won't do well vs other Space Marines.

 

 

So having said that.....

What WOULD your 2,000 pt, Anit-DE build be for Dark Angels???

[ValourousHeart]

So having said that.....

What WOULD your 2,000 pt, Anit-DE build be for Dark Angels???

 

I don't tend to care what my opponents bring, I generally just play whatever my current list is until its no longer legal to field or I get the urge to change it up.  I don't build lists to chase the meta, I build them with a strong theme.  I then use that theme to influence what options I would take to deal with a verity of target types.  Then in game I keep the theme in mind to influence how I play the match.

 

My current Dark Angels list is a revision of my 8th edition list.

 

Talonmaster 1

Talonmaster 2

Tornado Squadron 1 - 3 AC, 2 HB, 1 MM

Tornado Squadron 2 - 3 AC, 2 HB, 1 MM

Tornado Squadron 3 - 2 HF, 2 MM

Typhoon Squadron 1 - 2 HB, 2 TML

Typhoon Squadron 2 - 2 HB, 2 TML

Darkshroud

Dark Talon

Nephilim

[XeonDragon]

Why understanding is that where fight first/last abilities/strats meet, the result is normal combat order applies. So if you hit a unit with fight first with the whirlwind and use the fight last shenanigans, then the fight order is the units that charged, any other units with fight first, the usual post-charging unit order, units that fight last. 

 

So yes, a whirlwind might be useful (although CP intensive). 

 

Hey y'all, I think many of us have run into the new dark eldar by now, and I was thinking we could compile a few ways to put up a good fight.

First, how to deal with raiders behind obscuring terrain that are tough to interact with. Since DE don't gain the ability to advance and charge until turn two, popping them turn one can help stunt them. I have two thoughts on this. Preferred is always going first and using the 2cp pregame move to put 3 MMAB behind lines and pop a few. The other thought is more expensive and tailors the list to one matchup. Drop pod with anti vehicle weaponry for the same effect.

Here are some other problems I don't have solutions for.

The amount of ObSec they can trade with

The number of throwaway units. And our inability to kill enough of them.

Not being able to over watch when they pick.

Always fighting last. (Does judiciar/whirlwind strat stop this?)

[G8Keeper]

 

Why understanding is that where fight first/last abilities/strats meet, the result is normal combat order applies. So if you hit a unit with fight first with the whirlwind and use the fight last shenanigans, then the fight order is the units that charged, any other units with fight first, the usual post-charging unit order, units that fight last. 

 

So yes, a whirlwind might be useful (although CP intensive). 

 

Hey y'all, I think many of us have run into the new dark eldar by now, and I was thinking we could compile a few ways to put up a good fight.

 

First, how to deal with raiders behind obscuring terrain that are tough to interact with. Since DE don't gain the ability to advance and charge until turn two, popping them turn one can help stunt them. I have two thoughts on this. Preferred is always going first and using the 2cp pregame move to put 3 MMAB behind lines and pop a few. The other thought is more expensive and tailors the list to one matchup. Drop pod with anti vehicle weaponry for the same effect.

 

Here are some other problems I don't have solutions for.

 

The amount of ObSec they can trade with

 

The number of throwaway units. And our inability to kill enough of them.

 

Not being able to over watch when they pick.

 

Always fighting last. (Does judiciar/whirlwind strat stop this?)

 

 

I may be wrong here, but I seem to remember it being the player who's turn it is chooses if rules like fight last are mirrored.  

 

In most of the battles I've seen (all youtube mind you), the Drukhari player manages to hem the opponent in a control the board early on, especially when they get turn 1.  To counter this we have a whole company of high mobility, tough units in the form of Ravenwing, who would need to push out early on and deny those turn 2 primary scoring opportunities.  This means probably focusing on closest to home objective +2 others and completely clearing them of the annoying Russian doll Raiders and their Kabalite children, sacrificing any hold more bonuses but also denying them to the opponent.  It then comes down to good secondary selections, Bring it Down being an obvious one with the sheer amount of Raiders on the board making up for the negatives of them being <11 wounds (and so only 2 VP), even with their 9th ed. codex buffs we have the tools to destroy at least 2 or 3 per turn, along with their occupants.  After that I do like the idea of stacking No Mercy, No Respite in pure Ravenwing armies as you're moving >12" most of the time with your whole army and so every kill is worth an extra 2 VP, meaning those Raiders are now worth 4 VP each. I guess Engage on All Fronts is the next best??

[Riot Earp]

In my last tournament i learned that Relic Terminators with rokets and volkite are our best bet to open Raiders. Attack bikes and Talonmasters are a help to open them to and to kill the passengers. 

 

It was a good mix of deathwing with ravenwing which won against an drukhari list. But the DA player rolled well and the drukhari player had his worst game of his live. ive never saw so much vehicles exploding and killing passengers by themself. so it needs a good player and a good list vs a bad hair day for the drukhari to even beat them.

 

This was the players List. 

ITC Faction: Adeptus Astartes - Dark Angels
Warlord: Azrael
Commandpoints: 7
Reinforcement points: 0

+++ 2000P DA much more Shoot (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) +++

++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Dark Angels) [43 PL, 920pts, ] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selection**: Dark Angels

Deathwing Vanguard Detachment [3CP]

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

+ HQ +

Azrael [8 PL, 170pts, 2CP]: 1. Brilliant Strategist, Warlord

Ezekiel [7 PL, 125pts]: 1) Mind Worm, 3) Righteous Repugnance, 6) Mind Wipe

+ Elites +

Deathwing Command Squad [4 PL, 70pts]
. Deathwing Sergeant: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)

Deathwing Terminator Squad [18 PL, 440pts]: Watcher in the Dark
. Deathwing Sergeant
. . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Thunder hammer
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Thunder hammer
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Thunder hammer
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Thunder hammer
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Power Fist: Power fist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher

Ravenwing Apothecary [6 PL, 115pts, -1CP]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Reliquary of the Repentant, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter
. Black Knight Bike: Astartes grenade launcher

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Dark Angels) [49 PL, 1,080pts, 7CP] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selection**: Dark Angels

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]

+ HQ +

Lieutenant(s) [8 PL, 160pts, -1CP]
. Ravenwing Talonmaster: Arbiter's Gaze, Rites of War, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

Lieutenant(s) [8 PL, 160pts]
. Ravenwing Talonmaster

+ Troops +

Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]
. 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades
. Incursor Sergeant

+ Elites +

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 150pts, -1CP]: 2x Twin volkite culverin

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 175pts, -1CP]: Cyclone missile launcher, 2x Twin volkite culverin

+ Fast Attack +

Attack Bike Squad [6 PL, 165pts]
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

Attack Bike Squad [6 PL, 165pts]
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

++ Total: [92 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++

Edited May 18, 2021 by Riot Earp