Upgraded Cadian Shock Troops

[UltraRich]

So I take it this means we are good for the next 20 years?

 

 

 

 

 

 

The heads looks good

There is one Kasrkin looking head thats going to be hard to get 20 of :) 

 

I wonder if this is a separate sprue or part of the shock troop box?

[OldWherewolf]

I love these... the details is just soooo incredible

 

but I have like 100 of the old Cadian models from 2nd edition that I'm still painting (models and HWTs). Now I have to start over :-(

 

... and magnetize them

 

first world problems...

 

I'd love to see more female heads. There's a couple heads that can pass, but I don't think my painting is enough to get them there. But I will use the Catachan female sergent as my company commander! (I currently use the old Catachan guy with the bolter & cigar as my commander)

Edited May 7, 2021 by Brother Tyler

[Inso]

I both love this and hate it.

 

I love it because they have finally given the box all of the special weapon options.

 

I hate it because it's just an upgrade sprue rather than an updated squad.

[AGPO]

Honestly I'm glad they did this rather than rescaling and styling the entire range so that it doesn't fit our existing stuff ala Primaris. I'd hoped they'd redo the entire squad and add some female bodies, but this is still a real positive IMO

[War Angel]

I both love this and hate it.

 

I love it because they have finally given the box all of the special weapon options.

 

I hate it because it's just an upgrade sprue rather than an updated squad.

Sadly there’s a flaw to building a whole new kit. What would they change? Posses? Anything else they change and the models don’t mesh in with the current kits, and we end up with Primaris guard in firstborn squads. How much benefit is there to making a whole new kit, which requires new molds, just so our guys can be running slightly more left, or aiming a little higher? They could still release a veteran kit, with extra bits of armor. That would be nice, and could be possible. They might have to provide a new weapon with some use to make sure that the box has a hook for people to buy it other than it has nice new models.

 

Silver lining, this kit means the line isn’t going to be rescaled to become larger, and cadians aren’t done yet. So there is a possibility for a veteran kit in the future, possibly when the codex drops.

[UltraRich]

 

I both love this and hate it.

 

I love it because they have finally given the box all of the special weapon options.

 

I hate it because it's just an upgrade sprue rather than an updated squad.

Sadly there’s a flaw to building a whole new kit. What would they change? Posses? Anything else they change and the models don’t mesh in with the current kits, and we end up with Primaris guard in firstborn squads. How much benefit is there to making a whole new kit, which requires new molds, just so our guys can be running slightly more left, or aiming a little higher? They could still release a veteran kit, with extra bits of armor. That would be nice, and could be possible. They might have to provide a new weapon with some use to make sure that the box has a hook for people to buy it other than it has nice new models.

 

Silver lining, this kit means the line isn’t going to be rescaled to become larger, and cadians aren’t done yet. So there is a possibility for a veteran kit in the future, possibly when the codex drops.

 

 

Totally agree. One of my fears was that after painting a reasonably sized display army suddenly we get a new guard and they are taller, thinner and monopose. This is a good compromise. 

 

I'll be getting one of these when they come out 

[War Angel]

I might have to get a few for the weapon options alone. Sadly the bolt gun is the least usable of the weapons, behind locked into one pose like that.

[AGPO]

 

I both love this and hate it.

 

I love it because they have finally given the box all of the special weapon options.

 

I hate it because it's just an upgrade sprue rather than an updated squad.

Sadly there’s a flaw to building a whole new kit. What would they change? Posses? Anything else they change and the models don’t mesh in with the current kits, and we end up with Primaris guard in firstborn squads. How much benefit is there to making a whole new kit, which requires new molds, just so our guys can be running slightly more left, or aiming a little higher? They could still release a veteran kit, with extra bits of armor. That would be nice, and could be possible. They might have to provide a new weapon with some use to make sure that the box has a hook for people to buy it other than it has nice new models.

 

Silver lining, this kit means the line isn’t going to be rescaled to become larger, and cadians aren’t done yet. So there is a possibility for a veteran kit in the future, possibly when the codex drops.

 

 

I think the precedent for this is the tactical squad kit. The original ten man multi part squad was released with the launch of 3rd edition and the fundamentals changed very little until the Primaris were released at the start of 8th. However, the set went through multiple iterations, and with each one the poses got a little more natural and varied, more variety was added to the armour, more weapon loadouts were included and detailing got much, much sharper, especially the bare heads and the way the hands gripped the weapons. They also got compatibility with the rest of the Firstborn range, which likewise was regularly tweaked in the same way. Now this may just have coincided with moulds wearing out, and GW certainly sells far more Marines than Cadians, but this is the type of upgrade I'd like us to eventually see.

 

That said, provided they don't push up the price too much I'll certainly be picking up a few more boxes of Shock Troops to blend into my existing squads, and that's not something I thought I'd say for a while.

[War Angel]

Oh, also it keeps us multi pose.... I don’t know about other factions, but Marines new kits are all monopose

[Tokugawa]

There would be tons of 3rd party 3D printed female heads on market.

[sairence]

I both love this and hate it.

 

I love it because they have finally given the box all of the special weapon options.

 

I hate it because it's just an upgrade sprue rather than an updated squad.

This pretty much sums up my feelings. It's nice I guess, but it doesn't get me overly exited.

[Lucerne]

This is a wasted opportunity. It could have used the Blackstone designs.

[Captain Incompetence]

Yeah echoing what War Angel said what would a new kit or sprues actually look like? Putting aside a redesign or altered proportions, I don’t think it can get more densely packed than the command sprues, and they’re not giving us more than 10 guys in any box anyway. It also, as has been said, has the added benefit of ensuring this line continues as people want it while leaving room for a brand new kit down the road.

Personally I'm on quite the opposite side of this argument. I personally think the guardsmen are looking more and more dated by the year next to some of the more recent sculpts, and I'm not talking about models getting bigger. Compare the Blackstone fortress traitor guardsmen to a sprue of regular Cadians and tell me the Cadians don't look laughably dated in comparison. Don't get me wrong, I'll happily take the upgrade sprue, but if this is all GW has planned for updating Cadian let alone the Imperial Guard range as a whole, it feels like they're giving this faction scraps cause they couldn't be bothered to put actual time and money into refreshing the core kit. I also wouldn't be surprised if this addition to the box would mean another price increase too.

 

That being said, I do like the new heads, it's great to see some more diversity in the army, and finally getting all the special weapons in a box without having to rummage through the bitsbox or buy a command sprue just for weapons is pretty nifty.

[War Angel]

This is a wasted opportunity. It could have used the Blackstone designs.

Not in the slightest. It would be a waste only if they could only make c number of guard kits a year. They could make more, they’ve chosen to do this. That and they still have more kits they can now sell with more incentive.

[War Angel]

Here's a pro to a completely new kit:

 

Noticed how the Poxwalkers, Necron Warriors, and the freshly unveiled Tanith guardsmen look so much better proportioned? From a purely aesthetic point of view, a new kit would have been superior - The old figure's kinda look like dwarves / halflings with their stunty limbs, big heads & hands.

That’s a new one.

[WarriorFish]

Hmm. I have enough Guardsmen to build still and my bits box is plentiful so I'm not sure if the heads are good enough to interest me... I'll see when we can know more. Here's hoping that more attention is coming for other Guard infantry boxes who need more of an update.

[Jings]

From a purely aesthetic point of view, a new kit would have been superior - The old figure's kinda look like dwarves / halflings with their stunty limbs, big heads & hands.

A lot of that is the clunky Cadian pattern helmets imo. I used Cadian torsos and arms with third party trench coat legs and ushanka mask heads for my Mech vet army (RIP) and they look fine. These new heads will go a long way in improving the aesthetic.

[UltraRich]

 

From a purely aesthetic point of view, a new kit would have been superior - The old figure's kinda look like dwarves / halflings with their stunty limbs, big heads & hands.

A lot of that is the clunky Cadian pattern helmets imo. I used Cadian torsos and arms with third party trench coat legs and ushanka mask heads for my Mech vet army (RIP) and they look fine. These new heads will go a long way in improving the aesthetic.

 

 

Agreed on the heads. 

Ive been doing a couple of faces today for a new squad and the details are not that sharp

If the new heads are like the new primaris minis they will be a vast improvement. 

Look at at the sharpness in the casting of the chin and cheek guards on the new heads. Super sharp compared to the older curved version

[Warhead01]

Here's a pro to a completely new kit: Noticed how the Poxwalkers, Necron Warriors, and the freshly unveiled Tanith guardsmen look so much better proportioned? From a purely aesthetic point of view, a new kit would have been superior - The old figure's kinda look like dwarves / halflings with their stunty limbs, big heads & hands.

I'm just waiting to see these Tanith next to a Space Marine. I have a feeling these will be too large. I detest all the new larger human models, they make everything else look small. 

So I would say Superior is subjective at best. 

 

I think an upgrade kit for Cadians was a smart move a few years behind schedule for GW. They should have done this back around 05 or before. They could have put out a uniform conversion set to work with both Cadians and Catachan infantry.  

Sadly I see more Cadians and just kinda yawn. I mean I get it but I'd love something else entirely, granted I am not the target market anymore.  

 

[TheNewman]

The timing of this bums me out a little bit.

 

Part of my head-cannon for my Marine chapter has always been that they recruit almost exclusively from their home world's planetary defense force but I've never gotten around to putting together a light-infantry guard auxiliary for them. This probably would have been the push I needed and now Marines give up too much when they take allies.

[jarms48]

 

I'm just waiting to see these Tanith next to a Space Marine. I have a feeling these will be too large. I detest all the new larger human models, they make everything else look small. 

So I would say Superior is subjective at best. 

 

I think an upgrade kit for Cadians was a smart move a few years behind schedule for GW. They should have done this back around 05 or before. They could have put out a uniform conversion set to work with both Cadians and Catachan infantry.  

Sadly I see more Cadians and just kinda yawn. I mean I get it but I'd love something else entirely, granted I am not the target market anymore.  

 

This, I am of the opinion this upgrade kit should have been released when they reduced the box from the original 20 models to 10 models. At least the addition of the extra customisation "could" have justified that reduction in my eyes. 

 

It being done now is just upsetting, as it just confirms the Cadian models I started with back in 3rd edition will be the same for another 5 - 10 years at the very least. I would have actually preferred they produce one of the other named regiments in plastic as truescale. Sure it would probably upset current players but it at least makes narrative sense. Cadia is destroyed, all the current players using Cadian models could be representative of that lore. 

[Thoridon]

As someone with most of the old regiments I like the upgrade sprue. For the most part.

 

What I wasn’t keen on in the past was how close basic humans were to the height of Marines, who were supposed to tower over them. The Primaris update fixed that and gave a better size difference. My concern at this stage has been that if they just scale up everything we’d be back where we started.

 

On the other hand the old sculpts are a bit bulky. These new head sculpts are definitely sharper. I also really like the fact they’ve mixed gender and racial features - that has been long overdue, and it will add nice options to IG armies.

 

In the long run I hope to see them keep the average height of most IG models the same as they are now to maintain the difference to marines but slim them down a bit to more human proportions. What I’d really love to see in complete redesigned kits is a mix of heights. Have most at the average but include some slightly shorter and some slightly taller. Combine that with the more varied head options and they’d look less like clones and more like people.

 

You could then have a regiment like Catachans scaled slightly bigger in a redesign, fitting the lore. Still plenty smaller than Primaris but bigger than the Cadian line. That to me would be better than simply making everything a few mm taller.

 

Edit: I forgot to clarify that for the most part I meant that my concern with the upgrade sprue is what it will do to the cost. I could imagine a complete redesign full of loads of options being recosted at something closer to £30 instead of £22.50 but if they do that just for the upgrade sprue it would be too much. £25 would feel ok.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Thoridon

[Lucerne]

Oh, the pricing will be an obscenity. That's all but guaranteed.

 

The Cadians are now misshapen, badly proportioned, low detail, and tiny compared to cultists and their own starved, under-equipped counterparts that turned the other week, aka: blackstone turncoats- and GW has now doubled down on keeping the ugly models that way rather than fixing the problems that have crept into the range with age. This is not ideal.

 

The old cadians are an eyesore that we're now saddled with indefinitely- cadians are now doomed to be completely obsolete and out of place visually, especially if and when other regiments get updates that are guaranteed to not be malformed-scale lol

 

The people cheering this on have doomed the Cadians to irrelevance and possibly dragged Guard down with them.

 

 

 

From a purely aesthetic point of view, a new kit would have been superior - The old figure's kinda look like dwarves / halflings with their stunty limbs, big heads & hands.

A lot of that is the clunky Cadian pattern helmets imo. I used Cadian torsos and arms with third party trench coat legs and ushanka mask heads for my Mech vet army (RIP) and they look fine. These new heads will go a long way in improving the aesthetic.

 

And the legs, and the low-res detailing, and the shoulders...

Edited May 9, 2021 by Lucerne

[Lucerne]

Oh they’re not that bad. There are a hundred of them on the table that die in droves, that they’re not miniature statues of David with perfect proportions isnt the end of the world. I’d also like to have your abilities of precognition that say these have doomed us all to decades more of no new kit. These are additions to an existing kit that won’t be disappearing. That’s a good thing.

 

I like the kit and their exaggerated proportions and I’m glad they’re doubling down on them.

I mean there's no nice way to say this but your mentality of "KEEP THE OUT OF DATE MODELS EXACTLY AS THEY ARE, DAMN THE CONSEQUENCES" is kinda part of the problem, and a contributing factor to why Cadians won't be getting any new, updated models. What makes you think GW will ever give Cadians in particular new toys if they realize they can get away with selling the same archaic, malformed bodies to the readily satisfied?

 

Also, even for horde armies, the flaws are glaring- especially the shoulders.

 

The kit is beyond salvage. A standalone upgrade kit- while inadequate- would be fine. Putting it as "the new cadian" while stapling it onto the obsolete kit- something for which the overvocal fandom of the old cadian sculpts are likely partially to blame? That's a very bad sign indeed and might have consequences for Guard models as a whole- and definitely does for Cadians as a subfaction.

 

But if you think this is a good trend, best not to wonder where all the new Cadian releases went.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Lucerne

[Lucerne]

You raise good points, and you’re not wrong in most of them, but I just don’t see this release as anything but a positive. We don’t know for sure there is nothing else coming down the pipe, and the kit IS serviceable and there are fans of it. I agree the traitor guard and BSF guys should probably be the standard, but I can’t subscribe to the notion this is all we’re getting forever because we tolerate the existing models.

I dunno. The problem as I see it is

1) I disagree strenuously with the idea that the kit is adequate, but GW definitely took the idea that it'll still sell into consideration when sticking with it rather than making a full wave. That makes sales of the kit- ironically enough- a problem for what we want them to decide for calculations of "should we redo the range to encourage more sales".

2) While new guard are far from impossible at some point, it's very ominous that we got this now instead of a full wave, and I don't think we're getting any more Guard in the near future, as a direct result of GW's decision here. I'd be delighted to be wrong especially if that KT rumor was true (about Steel legion rather than kriegers) but even if wrong, I don't think modern Cadian releases are likely to happen at all now, except perhaps (and I think it's fairly unlikely) as a shoulderpad/head option for the hypothetical Command squad individual character minis that we can guess may be happening from rumor engines...for what little that's worth.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Lucerne