Dark Imperium 3: Godblight discussion

[Ishagu]

Godblight is pretty good so far imo, since this is apparently not the discussion thread going by the comments I threw one up. Was too impatient to wait for it lol.

 

I am curious, if this is going to be the 'changes' thread. If I made the wrong call by going straight into Godblight, the changes have been easy to follow so far but I am nervous about it.

It can be everything :-D

[aa.logan]

Ive read the first chapter, and it didn’t get any further but I’ve just gotten a puppy and he’s way more fun.

 

It did leave me wondering why there isn’t a model for Felix though.

[StrangerOrders]

It is nice to have reactions as one reads too

 

Has anyone (very quickly) read the revised versions of 1 and 2? I imagine the changes are subtle, but what are they?

Its actually my biggest regret atm to not have read those two, but at the same time I really wanted to see how the storyline goes.

 

Live reactions followed by a proper review is more fun imo, its honestly the highlight of the Siege novels for me at least.

 

Btw, I really wanted to talk about the highlight of the book so far for me:

Anyone else love evil Jiminy Cricke-erm, I mean 'Tattle Slug'?

 

Its a perfect encapsulation of what I mean about loving the jarring and sort of insane tonal dissonance in the Nurgle chapters.

 

You go from a pretty fun sketch routine between Kugath trying to bribe it and being shocked everyone knew he hated everyone to this weird 'invasion of the body-snatchers' fever dream. I sort of love seeing that disjoint with Chaos stuff.

 

And on the flip-side, it allows for plenty of time with Guilliman discussing politics and theology in a fairly calm setting without enough drag to get boring. The conversation about godhood was a real standout for me, especially since each of the three speakers presenting a spectrum of views from three fundamentally different but related worldviews.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

 

I was under the impression that discussion threads were frowned on unless the participants had actually finished the work, thus why I didn't start one myself. Maybe the policy has changed.

If true I apologize but I often see them coming up as soon as the book emerges. The mods can of course close and delete if I am wrong of course.

 

 

I may be wrong as I only started reading the ebooks recently so usually when I'd get my hands on a physical copy the discussion thread was well underway. I know that the Swords of Calth discussion was shut down until at least a couple of fraters had read it in full, but that might have been one mod's discretion based on the fact that the overall tone of the initial posts was veering into negative territory and didn't have a lot to do with the actual events in the book.

It did leave me wondering why there isn’t a model for Felix though.

 

He's outfitted exactly like the Dark Imperium Gravis Captain, toilet-seat iconography aside.

[DarkChaplain]

I mean, having the exact same gear hasn't stopped GW from producing Primaris Lieutenants or Stormcast Whichevers. They even give those unique names (if not rules).

From that perspective, Felix is clearly getting shafted.

 

I'm planning on re-reading Dark Imperium and then follow on with Plague War (which I skipped the first time around) before hopping into Godblight. It's tempting to skip ahead, of course, but it seems sensible to hold off.

[DukeLeto69]

I’ll be the laggard who waits for the paperbacks

[Karhedron]

Weird amount of comedy though, don't think I can recall the last time I got a gut-laugh out of a BL work.

Guy Haley is good at leavening the grimdark with touches of humour. The Armour of Fate and Great Work both have sections that make made me laugh.

 

Going further back, the Ciaphas Cain novels had definite threads of humour woven through the plot.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Another favorite character returns:

 

I was just about giving up on seeing Justinian Parris in this book, since his chapters were some of my favorites, being the POV of a rank-and-file Primaris Marine. But lo and behold, at almost the halfway point, he shows up with the remainder of his squad from Plague War, now properly assigned to the Novamarines Third Company rather than as an auxliary.

 

If you ever wanted an account of how Impulsors (and Repulsors, for that matter) are inserted via aerial drop from Overlords, this chapter's for you. Only problem is, now I can't get "Long Tall Sally" out of my head.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

I took a quick look at Dark Imperium to see if I could spot any changes. I skipped the first three chapters as they are from olden times and I'm not really too interested in any changes there anyway.

 

Chapter four was covered above, so I skipped to chapter six. Right off, it's notable that the reference to Shipmaster Brahe has been changed to reference Fleetmaster Khestrin (also a character in Godblight). I'm guessing that Brahe, who WAS the Shipmaster of the Macragge's Honour in the original DI novels (and is referenced as such in Gate of Bones), will now be going down with the ship when the Dawn of Fire meets whatever fate awaits it towards the end of that series (or this could be a swerve from GW and both Brahe and the DoF are still out there somewhere, but I'm laying odds against that).

 

Also, for some reason the Macragge's Honour refit is now said to have taken place at Metalica rather than Mars, even though it still says that Cawl's stamp is on everything. Maybe the ship's recovery from the Red Corsairs will take place nearer to Metalica and it will just make more logistical sense to put it into spacedock there rather than shlepping it all the way back to the Terran system. 

[StrangerOrders]

Around Chapter 18 and one big thought so far.

 

By the Emperor, Mathieu went from annoying as hell to just the worst.

Seriously, he spends this entire book ignoring Guilliman, doing whatever he wants and just arguing with what feels like troll logic.

Only like halfway in and he is on his THIRD unauthorized action (and second illegal assault). I rather desperately just want him to get eaten by a Beast of Nurgle at this point.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Racej Lucerne is great. I've only finished the chapter where he's introduced, but flipping the dichotomy so the space marine is the voice of reason and understanding and the normal human is the angry guy works so well.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Finished it. Yeah, still feel it's a decent wrapup to the storyline, although I can already hear the complaints. There's "confirmation" from an apparently informed source about a major plot thread going forward, but I'll wait and see how that's dealt with (EDIT: To be perfectly clear, I'm talking about an informed source within the story, not someone in our world talking about future books).

 

Overall, I thought Haley did a great job of juggling the large ensemble cast he built up not just in previous books but also in Dawn of Fire. Aside from the big plot thread I mentioned, the seeds were sown for a couple more, but no one should take that to mean that this trilogy in itself was inconsequential. This is still an "event" within the ongoing 40K storyline and there is a proper ending to that event.

 

Racej Lucerne is great. I've only finished the chapter where he's introduced, but flipping the dichotomy so the space marine is the voice of reason and understanding and the normal human is the angry guy works so well.

 

Lucerne is in Gate of Bones as well, so he's been giving Fabian a hard time for over a decade by this point.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Lord Nord

[SkimaskMohawk]

Lmao that's what I get for skipping that book. Might be a good reason to pick it up

[Ishagu]

I've not read Godblight yet, or started it, but I can confirm that Dark Imperium 1 is significantly amended and certain conversations have far more details and changes. For example the talk with the Cawl Inferior.

 

I'm looking forward to eventually getting to the third book lol

[DarkChaplain]

One "big" change I've noticed while listening to Dark Imperium's first few chapters is that Haley replaced Roboute's Gladius Incandor with the Emperor's Sword even in the Fulgrim fight. Before, he'd only get this one after his restoration, now he has it before being stasis'd.

 

Fulgrim actually comments on it, and it makes for the more powerful scene. The Gladius Incandor actually kinda went poof while deflecting Fulgrim's strikes, with the field generator's outburst putting some distance between the two. In the new version, the Sword of the Emperor sparks up and burns Fulgrim's face, with the same result of parting the Primarchs.

 

This basically means that Guilliman as regent of the Imperium post-Heresy not only put his mark on the High Lords with their later "Lord Guilliman" seat, but that at the very least Russ and the Khan were fine with Roboute picking up their father's sword.

That makes it pretty clear to me that even if GW were to bring Russ back in the present day, he'd not really take an issue with an "upstart" Guilliman in charge and wielding their dad's authority. He was around during the 2nd Founding, the regency and even Guilliman's supposed death, so if anything, he'd support Roboute in M41/42 in his efforts to rebuild the Imperium.

 

One "small" change like replacing the weapon in the first part of the book has pretty big ramifications for present-day speculation in this way.

[StrangerOrders]

One "big" change I've noticed while listening to Dark Imperium's first few chapters is that Haley replaced Roboute's Gladius Incandor with the Emperor's Sword even in the Fulgrim fight. Before, he'd only get this one after his restoration, now he has it before being stasis'd.

 

Fulgrim actually comments on it, and it makes for the more powerful scene. The Gladius Incandor actually kinda went poof while deflecting Fulgrim's strikes, with the field generator's outburst putting some distance between the two. In the new version, the Sword of the Emperor sparks up and burns Fulgrim's face, with the same result of parting the Primarchs.

 

This basically means that Guilliman as regent of the Imperium post-Heresy not only put his mark on the High Lords with their later "Lord Guilliman" seat, but that at the very least Russ and the Khan were fine with Roboute picking up their father's sword.

That makes it pretty clear to me that even if GW were to bring Russ back in the present day, he'd not really take an issue with an "upstart" Guilliman in charge and wielding their dad's authority. He was around during the 2nd Founding, the regency and even Guilliman's supposed death, so if anything, he'd support Roboute in M41/42 in his efforts to rebuild the Imperium.

 

One "small" change like replacing the weapon in the first part of the book has pretty big ramifications for present-day speculation in this way.

TBH? I think the idea that any of the Loyalists (outside of the Lion) would mind is sort of an artifact of the fanbase more than anything else.

 

There is still alot of residual hate for Guilliman and the UM from the old days and I think it has sort of been projected in alot of peoples' heads.

 

Looking at the actual books? Most of the Primarchs seemed to have not liked Guilliman, but no one seems to have really thought he was sketchy or untrustworthy, outside of the Lion who we similarly know does not like or trust any of his brothers. 

 

And even then, most of that dislike Guilliman got from the others seems to be more in line with them finding him legitimately annoying more than anything else. Sort of like that really upright and annoying relative cliche. 

 

Its sort of ironic that for his part Guilliman seems to like and respects most of the others though lol.

 

Jokes aside, I think literally only the Lion would really make an issue if he came back. And even then we have enough of a record to know he is not hasty and is more likely to build a case against Guilliman in his own mental court before doing anything. 

 

Probably the most boring return would be the Khan I think, since Jaghatai would not give a cuss either way lol.

[SkimaskMohawk]

That's actually a pretty odd change. A big thing of RG's return was that he came out of his audience with the Emperor with his sword and full authority as regent, backed up by the custodes.

 

Like idk, what does giving him the sword earlier accomplish?

[DarkChaplain]

I agree completely, StrangeOrders. The one plot thread that I could see turning into a source of friction / the fan-theorized new civil war would be down to the Lion, due to their history with Imperium Secundus, the breaking of the Lion Sword, and Guilliman failing to reach Terra in time - which the Lion blames himself for as well, of course, but in his grief he projected it onto Russ as well, stabbing him.

He's the odd one out who also exited the stage real quickly after the Siege, and didn't get to see the decades of Guilliman's "rule".

 

Frankly, I never really got the Guilliman bashing to begin with. He was a good choice to bring back (especially since it's been hinted at forever) and he shakes things up just enough. People projected the Codex-stickler mentality onto Roboute as well, even though he's the one who warned against taking it as gospel and rejecting tactical flexibility.

 

If anything, Dark Imperium and Dawn of Fire are giving me plenty of reasons to consider Guilliman one of my favorite Primarchs around. He's presented in a much more nuanced way than you'd think from his reputation. Heck, I actually think the pent-up fan expectations of what Guilliman had to be like feeds into the theme of Guilliman's disappointment with the state of the galaxy, his sons and the Imperium at large. He frequently criticises them for putting him and his works on a pedestal. In The Armour of Fate, he even gets annoyed when people don't realize that Roboute Guilliman also has a sense of humor.

 

Haley's Guilliman is pretty much the key reason why I'm excited about Dawn of Fire and Dark Imperium. He strikes the balance between the powerful bureaucrat, the passionate leader chained by responsibility and the fallible man trying to measure up to expectations he sets for himself.

 

 

As for the Sword thing, it wouldn't be too strange for the thing to be returned to the Emperor after Guilliman falls into his stasis coma. In some fluff pieces since 8th, he also received it from Cawl apparently? I didn't read Rise of the Primarch, so I can't say what's correct.

 

Edit: Looks like this is addressed later on in the book, though I haven't reached that point yet myself. The Custodes seem to be involved one way or another, at the very least.

Edited May 30, 2021 by DarkChaplain

[Lucerne]

wrong thread

Edited May 30, 2021 by Lucerne

[Lucerne]

A disappointing collection of flaws and bad creative/top-down decisions that destroy any tension left in 40k, undermine the setting, and generally just make me wish for Mortarion to win on all fronts.

 

It's not even clear how much of this is Haley's fault, but the daemonic and Morty writing is dismal and can definitely be blamed on him at least.

 

4/10, this is definitely a story made of words. It has some mildly interesting ideas about setting metaphysics that will not actually have meaningful follow-up 

and retconned the Throne Room chat into something more interesting, casual hints that Guilliman is the same kind of monster as his father, and in-universe excuses for the big blue boy scout's plot armour.

Still not worth the way it made the Death Guard and Chaos into a complete joke.

 

This book was garbage, all the more disappointing because I expected baseline levels of competent writing. Also, pretty sure the book completely ignored the way this was supposed to end in the Codex.

 

I don't care about any of these people. I don't want to see them win. It's a narrative about a deluded, ossified puppet surrounded by thralls and enslaved to an uncaring, insane power beyond the point where it should have died long ago- oh, and Morty and the Death Guard were there too I guess.

 

At least we got a certain character death, and good riddance to em at that. Reading it made me wish for a Gaunt's Ghosts novel instead.

 

On reflection:

1) Haley needs to stop writing daemons. He's dead center in the middle of "just humans in funny hats" and the charm wore off for that multiple novels ago.

2) Haley has some interesting ideas, but they're all bark and no bite. He will not be allowed to take them to their logical conclusion.

3) Crucify some Ultramarines or blow up some planets (and the first idiot to say 'but Cadia' should stop and think about what they just said) if you want us to believe in the idea that Imperials in these prolonged wastes of time are in actual danger. HAVE. THEM. LOSE.

 

This novel was ridiculous and should probably not have been written. The good things in it are the filler.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Lucerne

[Roomsky]

Speaking purely personally, it never came from a place of liking or disliking Guilliman outside of the setting. I want an Imperium civil war because I thought (and still think) that bringing Guilliman back by himself, of all primarchs, was the most boring option possible. The Imperium to me has no single leader, it's leaders are not sympathetic or even remotely functional, and they should have no idea what things were like 10,000 years ago. Bringing back the Lion, or Guilliman along with the Lion, would at least create some of the friction that's more in keeping with 40k's past.

 

If anything I like Guilliman even better in M41, he's usually handled well by Black Library. His presence is simply a choice I've always thought was made 100% for money and 0% out of an understanding of 40k's virtues as a setting.

[Lucerne]

I mean, at least Guilliman's opposition is human rather than some power-hungry, controlling creature that has more in common with a daemon than a person.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Lucerne

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Hmmm, minor change in the updated Dark Imperium related to the Howling Griffons:

 

The Chapter Master makes an appearance during the council scene toward the end of the book. In the original novel this was Alvaro. In the updated novel it's now "Kenot Friche." Has that name ever appeared anywhere before this?

[DarkChaplain]

After some looking around online, the confusion regarding the sword of the Emperor actually reaches years back. Rise of the Primarch apparently featured this part:

 

 

 

Where before Roboute Guilliman had sat, a pale, stasis-locked revenant, now the Primarch stood awake, alert and very much alive. His presence was immense, dominant as a thunderhead suddenly filling the shrine with its crushing pressure. Guilliman was clad in a magnificent new suit of armour, an ornate masterwork that had traveled all the way from the forges of Mars in Cawl's auto-reliquary. In one hand the Ultramarines Primarch held the blade of the Emperor, lit now from hilt to tip with leaping flames, and in his eyes was a look of such murderous intensity that even the loyalists within the shrine quailed to see it.

 

So he had it pretty much from the moment he got out of stasis and revived, before even reaching Terra.

Looks like the way Haley retconned it in Dark Imperium now is actually fixing an inconsistency that existed since his return. Guilliman no longer receives it on Terra in M41/42, but back during the Scouring days, but in a similar fashion via the Custodes.

[Fedor]

 You can't fool me, that's no review, merely a cut and pasted collection of quotes about the book from the angrier, more prone to hyperbole posters on 40kLore.