Excessus Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 But it's only natural for people to be upset that a service was taken away. You do realise that the option to buy bits from GW directly was taken away about 20 years ago? You make it sound like they just did it recently... Calling GW on the land-line and ordering bits from a thick catalogue was nice and I can be nostalgic about it now, but to expect something to always be a certain way is folly...I mean, would you like to still use dial-up modems instead of broadband? Products change, business models change, people change, times change... BrandX and Antarius 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5735663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Officer Doofy Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 But it's only natural for people to be upset that a service was taken away. You do realise that the option to buy bits from GW directly was taken away about 20 years ago? You make it sound like they just did it recently... Calling GW on the land-line and ordering bits from a thick catalogue was nice and I can be nostalgic about it now, but to expect something to always be a certain way is folly...I mean, would you like to still use dial-up modems instead of broadband? Products change, business models change, people change, times change... Again, I'm not actually complaining about them taking away a service I never used. I only used that as the example because someone else used it about a GW staffer complaining about customers. I was just using it in the broadest terms, it was something they had, and it went away, so naturally some people that did use it would be upset. The people complaining about it are probably the people that buy a troop box now that let's them take two special weapons, but only puts one of each special weapon inside the box to give you incentive to buy another box if you want two of any special weapon. Another example, Squats were before my time, but I bet if you got into the hobby at the begining, bought a bunch of squats, painted and made an army, would you not be upset if GW was like eh they are silly space dwarves, we are going to retcon and phase them out. Good luck playing with them. And me and you could cheekly say in a forum 30 years later ya but that was 30 years ago, who cares. Some people do. But this is off topic to the thread about pricing at this point Excessus. I was only defending why some people can be upset and want to complain to GW about it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5735666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 You could never order individual components off of plastic sprues anyway, the bits service was based on the time of minis being mostly metal and made up of individually cast components. It's simplistic to say the service has been taken away when it's more that the production methodology that supported that service no longer exists. MegaVolt87, Dark Shepherd, Xenith and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5736098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcomet Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 But it's only natural for people to be upset that a service was taken away. You do realise that the option to buy bits from GW directly was taken away about 20 years ago? You make it sound like they just did it recently... Calling GW on the land-line and ordering bits from a thick catalogue was nice and I can be nostalgic about it now, but to expect something to always be a certain way is folly...I mean, would you like to still use dial-up modems instead of broadband? Products change, business models change, people change, times change... Again, I'm not actually complaining about them taking away a service I never used. I only used that as the example because someone else used it about a GW staffer complaining about customers. I was just using it in the broadest terms, it was something they had, and it went away, so naturally some people that did use it would be upset. The people complaining about it are probably the people that buy a troop box now that let's them take two special weapons, but only puts one of each special weapon inside the box to give you incentive to buy another box if you want two of any special weapon. Another example, Squats were before my time, but I bet if you got into the hobby at the begining, bought a bunch of squats, painted and made an army, would you not be upset if GW was like eh they are silly space dwarves, we are going to retcon and phase them out. Good luck playing with them. And me and you could cheekly say in a forum 30 years later ya but that was 30 years ago, who cares. Some people do. But this is off topic to the thread about pricing at this point Excessus. I was only defending why some people can be upset and want to complain to GW about it. Things change, things go away. As a person you have to learn to live with and accept that. Complaining about it 15-20 years later just makes no sense. Would be the same if I complained online on a weekly basis that I can’t buy movies on VHS tapes anymore. TwinOcted, Halandaar, Matcap86 and 5 others 8 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5736169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Officer Doofy Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 (edited) I was only using that as the reference to GW complaining about their customers complaining to them is pretty stupid. Could have been anything, wanting to bring templates or vehicle facings back. For like the third or fourth time now, I don't care about a service that was retired 20+ years ago that I never used. It doesn't even have to be about something going away, that is just what you and two other fraters were talking about prior to my post. Nick Bayton talked about it on a hobby hangout stream where he got fed up with the whining in chat over issues that the Warhammer community team has NOTHING to do with. Nick can whine all he wants maybe if GW had better 2 way communications with their customer base they would know what we want better and stop being :cuss Edited August 29, 2021 by Putrid Choir Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5736171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcomet Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 I was only using that as the reference to GW complaining about their customers complaining to them is pretty stupid. Could have been anything, wanting to bring templates or vehicle facings back. For like the third or fourth time now, I don't care about a service that was retired 20+ years ago that I never used. It doesn't even have to be about something going away, that is just what you and two other fraters were talking about prior to my post. Nick Bayton talked about it on a hobby hangout stream where he got fed up with the whining in chat over issues that the Warhammer community team has NOTHING to do with. Nick can whine all he wants maybe if GW had better 2 way communications with their customer base they would know what we want better and stop being :cuss He didn’t complain or whine. But rightfully got annoyed over people filling up chat in a twitch show called “Hang out and hobby”, with negative stuff about things outside of the realm of a causal painting show. There are other communication channel for that sort of thing. And I also wonder why people bother being negative in a fun casual shows chat. Do they just come there to moan and ruin everyone else’s experience? Dark Shepherd and Metzombie 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5736176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 And I also wonder why people bother being negative in a fun casual shows chat. Do they just come there to moan and ruin everyone else’s experience? I agree that it's annoying to constantly have negativity and business stuff overrunning what is supposed to be a fun, hobby-focused show, but people probably feel frustrated that there isn't any other mechanism at all to get their questions answered or concerns responded to. I think you'd see a lot of that kind of stuff disappear from Hang Out and Hobby if the Warhammer Community team ran a regular Q&A show that these kind of questions or comments could be directed to, or if the social media accounts' default answer to almost everything wasn't "we don't have any news on that but we'll let you know when we do". Progenitor, Noserenda, MARK0SIAN and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5736195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Shepherd Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 Theres the livechat theyve started doing in select countries, think its mostly rules/advice relates though A regular comunity faq would be good Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5736215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 And I also wonder why people bother being negative in a fun casual shows chat. Do they just come there to moan and ruin everyone else’s experience? I agree that it's annoying to constantly have negativity and business stuff overrunning what is supposed to be a fun, hobby-focused show, but people probably feel frustrated that there isn't any other mechanism at all to get their questions answered or concerns responded to. I think you'd see a lot of that kind of stuff disappear from Hang Out and Hobby if the Warhammer Community team ran a regular Q&A show that these kind of questions or comments could be directed to, or if the social media accounts' default answer to almost everything wasn't "we don't have any news on that but we'll let you know when we do". That's what happens when you ban, shadow ban and delete posts about complaints/ other concerns from the correct socials. Its done in live chat so GW and its affiliates can't avoid it. People will access who they can to complain to in the hopes that person will do something even if they can do nothing for the mere fact they are accessible and hear what one is saying, happens everywhere IRL. That's what happens when there is no real two way communication. GW is talking AT you, not WITH you on their socials and WarCom is just a stylized catalogue, which isn't a bad thing IMO but its definitely not a real community. Just wait, these twitch streams will no longer be live at some point IMO or chat is disabled completely. Special Officer Doofy, AenarIT and Arkhanist 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5736755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfred_the_great Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 I wonder why people get banned? Nothing to do with a wild sense of entitlement allied with gratuitous offensiveness? Oxydo, Halandaar, TwinOcted and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5736848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
excelite Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Sry but what do people expect? If you want to complain go to the proper place /channel… Just like complaining about customer service in a thread about pricing is off topic, complaining about company policies in a hobby stream or a model announcement tweet is… TwinOcted, Marshal Reinhard and Dark Shepherd 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5736892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Officer Doofy Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 (edited) This hobby tends to bring out entitlement that I've never seen in any other hobby. I'm not sure exactly how or why, could be a combination of time and money invested and immersion into the setting. But it can't just be pricing/money. I've spent $10,000's on my 4 wheeling hobby and my boating hobby, but neither of those have ever frustrated me like GW has. It's not just pricing, it's GW's decisions. Things like FOMO marketing, codex creep and snail codex pace where some armies are left barely playable tend to piss people off (it's 2021, don't even bother bringing out previous editions and how certain factions never even got codexes, kind of only proves my point more). There could be alot better game balance but that would cut slightly into their profit margins, so it won't happen. They seem to give with one hand and take with another. Look at the new ork boys for example (I don't play orks, this is just what I observed on the forum). Should have been a win win. People were stoked they were getting redone ork boys. Then people found out they were monopose and had set wargear, can't choose your number of shootas and choppas. For every one happy person in the threads there is one angry. GW does this to themselves. I'm not that invested in the hobby where I watch live streams or watch people paint or comment on those channels (I don't even have social media like a twitch, Twitter or Facebook). But I love what these people are commenting in those hobby streams, to me its hilarious. GW's customer service is laughable, often taking weeks to email back and they don't even answer your question(s). If the only thing GW was doing to upset people was the occasional price increase, I don't think people would be that upset. The price increases are just a cherry on top. Edited September 1, 2021 by Putrid Choir Schurge, Rejects of Anvilus, MegaVolt87 and 4 others 7 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5737080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 People do need to remember that most of the substantive change coming from feedback has been a response to people whinging on social media, so in between surveys it really is the most effective means for getting changes to the games unfortunately. Stuff like Chaos Cult troops as troops, Custodes Forgeworld rules and probably a bunch of others ive forgotten are all examples.Now it sucks, believe me, ive worked most my life in frontline retail and banking so i know full well how annoying it is for the folks actually running the social media stuff but when GW only listens once a year officially then people are going to find other methods to make their frustrations known. Ideally a bit more openness or even just actively showing the benefits of using designated feedback channels would reduce that of course, but i know from my own emails it often feels like your feedback just disappears down a black hole to be forever ignored. MegaVolt87 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5737086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uprising Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 I will put it simply: A hobby should not be hard to love. Lately, It has been extremely hard to love this company action and prices. It may be time to move on, and stop wasting time (sunk cost fallacy). I have better things to live for, and time is priceless. Vesalius, Dark Shepherd, Schurge and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5737129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Lightstar Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 A break from this hobby, is often beneficial, I took 6 or 7 years out of the painting and gaming side of the hobby and enjoyed it far more when I came back. I kept up with a fair bit of the background stuff that was going on, and I still enjoyed some Black Library stuff here and there. But I got rid of pretty much anything that was unfinished, and the rest got packed away. So when I did come back I didn't have a backlog of stuff weighing down on me. If it starts to feel like an obligation to do something rather than a pleasure, then that's where you have an issue and if any of you feel that way I'd definitely suggest taking a bit of time out from the sides of it that you're not enjoying. If you're taking it personally when a company makes a business decision, then you could probably do with a little distance from it, people throw out phrases like "insulting", "slap in the face" and "deserve" all the time in threads on here. I get it, I've been there, but you really do need to keep some perspective. Rik excelite, Sarvis, Inquisitor lorr and 4 others 7 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5737161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATPete Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 But it's only natural for people to be upset that a service was taken away. You do realise that the option to buy bits from GW directly was taken away about 20 years ago? You make it sound like they just did it recently... Calling GW on the land-line and ordering bits from a thick catalogue was nice and I can be nostalgic about it now, but to expect something to always be a certain way is folly...I mean, would you like to still use dial-up modems instead of broadband? Products change, business models change, people change, times change... You could order bits, or at least a few individual sprues, from GW up until the 2010s sometime. I bought a few leman russ chassis so I could scratchbuild the rest around something in about 2010/2011. Special Officer Doofy 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5737209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AenarIT Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 This hobby tends to bring out entitlement that I've never seen in any other hobby. I'm not sure exactly how or why, could be a combination of time and money invested and immersion into the setting. But it can't just be pricing/money. I've spent $10,000's on my 4 wheeling hobby and my boating hobby, but neither of those have ever frustrated me like GW has. It's not just pricing, it's GW's decisions. Things like FOMO marketing, codex creep and snail codex pace where some armies are left barely playable tend to piss people off (it's 2021, don't even bother bringing out previous editions and how certain factions never even got codexes, kind of only proves my point more). There could be alot better game balance but that would cut slightly into their profit margins, so it won't happen. They seem to give with one hand and take with another. Look at the new ork boys for example (I don't play orks, this is just what I observed on the forum). Should have been a win win. People were stoked they were getting redone ork boys. Then people found out they were monopose and had set wargear, can't choose your number of shootas and choppas. For every one happy person in the threads there is one angry. GW does this to themselves. I'm not that invested in the hobby where I watch live streams or watch people paint or comment on those channels (I don't even have social media like a twitch, Twitter or Facebook). But I love what these people are commenting in those hobby streams, to me its hilarious. GW's customer service is laughable, often taking weeks to email back and they don't even answer your question(s). If the only thing GW was doing to upset people was the occasional price increase, I don't think people would be that upset. The price increases are just a cherry on top. Entitlement goes hand in hand with customer retention, you can't get the latter without generating the former in your customer base. GW manages to sell plastic toys at crazy prices (compared to other companies that sell similar products) and engage in funny marketing practices (FOMO, ...) thanks to how loyal the customer base is. Once you have loyal customers, it's human for them to care about the product they buy and wanting it to be better/cheaper/... You can't have your cake and eat it too. Providing feedback in a rude manner through the wrong channels is a different problem, a consequence of not having any alternative to do that. Sending an email that is bounfd to receive a copy pasted reply saying "thank you for your feedback!" is not really an option. Not that it should be excused, of course. Special Officer Doofy, Allart01, MegaVolt87 and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5737215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcomet Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 And I also wonder why people bother being negative in a fun casual shows chat. Do they just come there to moan and ruin everyone else’s experience? I agree that it's annoying to constantly have negativity and business stuff overrunning what is supposed to be a fun, hobby-focused show, but people probably feel frustrated that there isn't any other mechanism at all to get their questions answered or concerns responded to. I think you'd see a lot of that kind of stuff disappear from Hang Out and Hobby if the Warhammer Community team ran a regular Q&A show that these kind of questions or comments could be directed to, or if the social media accounts' default answer to almost everything wasn't "we don't have any news on that but we'll let you know when we do". That's what happens when you ban, shadow ban and delete posts about complaints/ other concerns from the correct socials. Its done in live chat so GW and its affiliates can't avoid it. People will access who they can to complain to in the hopes that person will do something even if they can do nothing for the mere fact they are accessible and hear what one is saying, happens everywhere IRL. That's what happens when there is no real two way communication. GW is talking AT you, not WITH you on their socials and WarCom is just a stylized catalogue, which isn't a bad thing IMO but its definitely not a real community. Just wait, these twitch streams will no longer be live at some point IMO or chat is disabled completely. Send an email. GW doesn’t owe anyone to reply to all the angry, bitter and toxic comments on their SoMe profiles. And they reply to plenty who ask questions but in a polite manner, so there is two way communication. TwinOcted and Metzombie 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5737788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcomet Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 I will put it simply: A hobby should not be hard to love. Lately, It has been extremely hard to love this company action and prices. It may be time to move on, and stop wasting time (sunk cost fallacy). I have better things to live for, and time is priceless. Then do it. Hanging on, just because you used to, won’t make you happy. Karhedron and TwinOcted 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5737789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 I will put it simply: A hobby should not be hard to love. Lately, It has been extremely hard to love this company action and prices. It may be time to move on, and stop wasting time (sunk cost fallacy). I have better things to live for, and time is priceless. There's another fallacy at work here, which is the suggestion that the hobby and the company are one and the same. If you don't like the prices or the policies the company is pursuing, simply stop buying the product. It's not a requirement that you have the new OP unit, the limited-run box, the subscription to the thing or support how GW approaches IP or marketing or whatever. You can quite easily cease putting money in their pocket but continue to enjoy painting your dudes, playing your games, reading your books and participating in communities like this one. You can use your existing models in existing GW rule sets you already own and never buy a new one, or use them in other rule sets devised by other companies and individuals. You can even branch out into completely different games in different settings. You can ditch GW paints and what have you (if you haven't already), use 3rd party proxy models, design your own or buy GW minis second-hand. No aspect of participating in the hobby of tabletop wargaming, or even in Warhammer 40,000, requires you directly supporting GW. TL;DR, You don't need to love GW to love the hobby. Gamiel, Focslain, Cactus and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5737820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mughi3 Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 Just a heads up, heard from a friend on the retail side of the hobby...GW is raising prices again. Sure glad my collection is complete as i want it to be and i have gone back to playing 5th edition. GW will not get any more money from me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5738581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AenarIT Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 Just a heads up, heard from a friend on the retail side of the hobby...GW is raising prices again. Sure glad my collection is complete as i want it to be and i have gone back to playing 5th edition. GW will not get any more money from me. Is it "official" or just hearsay for now? I've checked on the retailers section of the website and the last price increase was last week, albeit limited to Citadel brushes and some Necromunda/BB dice sets. This year there has been no price increase across the line for existing kits (it usually happens in late May, at the end of GW's fiscal year). It would be damning, considering they can't produce/sell/ship stuff at a decent rate, also due to warehousing issues, and public opinion is pretty unenthusiastic of GW's recent practices, to put it kindly. A price increase across the range in line with recent ones could be yet another reason that pushes customers away from GW (and possibly people out of the hobby). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5738667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 It would be damning, considering they can't produce/sell/ship stuff at a decent rate, also due to warehousing issues, and public opinion is pretty unenthusiastic of GW's recent practices, to put it kindly. Actually if demand is outstripping supply, that sounds like the perfect time to raise prices. (From a cynical capitalist points of view). Gamiel 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5738668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Shepherd Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 Surely return to work and expanded warehouse would solve supply problem? But mainly they have to know with the + shenanigans and shipping delays that price increases would be very badly timed Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5738751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 It would be damning, considering they can't produce/sell/ship stuff at a decent rate, also due to warehousing issues, and public opinion is pretty unenthusiastic of GW's recent practices, to put it kindly. Actually if demand is outstripping supply, that sounds like the perfect time to raise prices. (From a cynical capitalist points of view). Yes - from a bottom line perspective now is exactly the right time for a price increase and it's not just GW either - october price increases are really common as they usually follow a summer sale and a precede a black friday purge. As far as insider info goes, I have none about GW but I would suggest that were you potentially interested in a beer fridge or spare freezer for xmas that you should go and buy it this month.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370360-gw-and-pricing-theres-a-problem/page/17/#findComment-5738755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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