GW and pricing, there's a problem.

[Mechanicus Tech-Support]

 

You make a good point. About 6-7 years ago, X-Wing overtook 40K as the country's most popular tabletop wargame for a couple of years. I think the shock kicked GW out of their complacency and led to the ousting of Kirby and the subsequent turnaround of the GW's fortunes. This led not to direct discounts but to better value starter sets like Dark Imperium.

 

There is nothing like a little healthy competition to keep a company on its toes.

 

 

I'd wager the CEO change was a couple years coming and had less to do with Xwing and more to do with stagnant stock price and lack of growth as a company as it was bleeding customers, institutional investor pressure can do that. The new CEO's first earnings speech noting lapsed customers was telling. 

[Halandaar]

If your definition of competitor includes anything that competes with GW for dollars, that should include computer games.

 

By that measure, they succeed despite stiff competition.

I think this is an interesting and completely valid point; GW isn't just competing with the other brands in tabletop wargaming but also with every other brand in every hobby that even has crossover with Warhammer. That's scale modelling, role-playing games, card games, board games, video games just to name the ones I can quickly think of. There's maybe even an argument that it competes with every other hobby or activity you could spend your disposable income on instead, from books to musical instruments to sports and beyond.

 

I know that if GW don't have a product I want to buy in a given month I don't go looking to spend that money on Kings of War or Bolt Action instead; I'm looking at video games or boardgames, books or gig tickets.

[sarabando]

I think GW does have competition in their own sphere. As a 30k collector my social media timeline is filled with Tortuga bay minis being used for new projects way more than I've ever seen any other 3rd party minis. Gws ip is amazing and a hell of an asset and they know it. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future things like the miniature side of the business gets outsourced/licenced off.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Threadomancy

 

So with the price increases, I was just wondering what exactly people are paying for in their mind when they buy a unit.

 

Are paying for the plastic itself? Or the abilities/quality of the unit in game?

Personally im willing to accept a 10-15% of price to be influenced by the quality of the unit on table top, but I still view it primarily as “is the physical model(s) enough to justify the cost?

 

What about the rest of you?

[Karhedron]

Will it bring me joy?

 

I have never fielded my Yncarne but it is a beautiful model that I spent months working on. It is not just a unit, it is the peak of my skills.

 

On the other hand, my Infiltrators are a utility unit that I put together and just applied a standard paint job but they have done me proud in many battles.

 

Some units I buy for the joy of modelling, others because I want to run them. This is a hobby, not a job and I am generally happy as long as I am having fun rather than counting the cost. That said, my budget is petty limited so if GW increase the prices, it reduces the number of units I can buy. They don't get more money out of me overall.

 

But they do get to sell those kits to someone else so I guess it makes sense for them.

[MARK0SIAN]

Mainly I’m buying some cool looking models to build and paint. I won’t pay more for better rules or expect to pay less for a unit with terrible rules. That said, their rules have to be good enough that I will at least put them on the table. The rules don’t have to be top tier or anything like that but I’m also unlikely to buy a cool looking model if it’s rules are terrible or it doesn’t fill a role I want/need in my list.

[phandaal]

Mainly I’m buying some cool looking models to build and paint. I won’t pay more for better rules or expect to pay less for a unit with terrible rules. That said, their rules have to be good enough that I will at least put them on the table. The rules don’t have to be top tier or anything like that but I’m also unlikely to buy a cool looking model if it’s rules are terrible or it doesn’t fill a role I want/need in my list.

 

That is basically how I do it. If I cannot see myself ever using a model on the table, I do not buy it. If I can see myself using it and I like the model, it may get bought.

 

Of course there are exceptions. Really like my Heavy Intercessors and Eliminators as models, but I have never once fielded them and not felt like it was a waste of points haha.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

For me its rule of cool first, I have to like how it looks. It also has to do what I expect it too, (doesn't mean it has to be effective, but if it's supposed to be anti-tank for example it should be anti-tank). Effectiveness does matter but its more if I'd be open, to getting more than one kit.

 

I'm not a fan of price increases but I get it, my complaints have more to do with my expectations on the rules side.

[Halandaar]

Threadomancy

 

So with the price increases, I was just wondering what exactly people are paying for in their mind when they buy a unit.

 

Are paying for the plastic itself? Or the abilities/quality of the unit in game?

Personally im willing to accept a 10-15% of price to be influenced by the quality of the unit on table top, but I still view it primarily as “is the physical model(s) enough to justify the cost?

 

What about the rest of you?

 

Something being the new hotness in the meta has zero influence over me, and similarly I will still buy (and field) models the competitive community thinks is "trash" as long as they look awesome. 100% of the decision to buy for me is whether or I will enjoy building, painting or converting it.

[Domhnall]

For me, purely because I like the model(s). As I don't game, everything I buy is for collecting and painting. The price increase is a bummer, but it won't affect (effect?) me quite as much as others will be by it. 

 

Stepping back from the personal aspect of this, but accepting that price increases are a part of life*; price increases that are greater than inflation does impact the game, albeit in a minor way. Let's face it, somebody with loads of disposible cash won't be affected by this, and will continue to buy what they want/need. However, someone at the other end is being hit with a higher price at point of sale, while being held back by a wage/income that probably isn't rising at the same level. Especially our younger recruits on pocket money/allowance. 

 

* I'm not going into the rights and wrongs of increases, or why they are what they are such as share holders, overheards etc. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Domhnall

[The Neverborn]

It's happened before, It will happen again.

 

I sold one of my three armies Deathwing, a second, Eldar,  is 50% a mixture 2nd/3rd edition era models and chinese knock-offs. So i can't really sell that, not sure what I'm going to do with that.

 

The last is my Daemons, which is likely going to be the only army that I'm going to keep collecting now. It's also the most system agnostic army GW do.

 

The game is as expensive as I/you want to make it. Supplements are fairly easy  to get online for free. I will absolutely add to my Daemons, but the days of having three armies are now long gone. Just the odd model/squad added here and there when I feel the need, likely often 3D prints.

 

And as always GW won't notice.

[Dark Shepherd]

Threadomancy

 

So with the price increases, I was just wondering what exactly people are paying for in their mind when they buy a unit.

 

Are paying for the plastic itself? Or the abilities/quality of the unit in game?

Personally im willing to accept a 10-15% of price to be influenced by the quality of the unit on table top, but I still view it primarily as “is the physical model(s) enough to justify the cost?

 

What about the rest of you?

Theres models I get just for painting and display like Gotrek, Gaunts Ghosts, anything canine, but pretty much save them for present requests.

 

Not sure if Indomitus counts but that was the last time I got models with a view to a tabletop application.

[Slave to Darkness]

If people are that bothered about GW prices then 3D print, buy recasts, hit up ebay or go third party and download the books, simple. 

 

'But Slave, you buying recast or 3D printing takes money away from the mini designers etc'. Yes and no, Im not gonna buy a Titan at GW prices even if there is no third party/recasts, so Im not taking money away from anybody as they would never be seeing it anyway.

 

'But Slave, if everybody did that the company will die'.  I doubt it, there is enough people happy to pay their prices so they will continue. I dont actually hate GW, I love the setting and I always will. But I (and a lot of people here it seems) like to have dinner drinks and dancing before we get :cussed... 

 

If you guys dont mind the pricing, thats great and I have no issue with anybody paying through the nose for a small bit of plastic, what you all do with your cash is down to you. I will still support GW through novels (I only download codex books etc, I resent paying that cash for a book thats gonna be errata'd on release day and ends up as toilet paper a few years later), paints and brushes (pure lazyness and I dont wanna wait over a week for a pot of paint to turn up when GW is literally ten mins walk from my house), Im not screaming for a boycott, were technically doing it anyway as Im not the only person here thats looking elsewhere for their fix, just pointing out there IS ways to hobby without breaking out the lube before every purchase. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

For me, purely because I like the model(s). As I don't game, everything I buy is for collecting and painting. The price increase is a bummer, but it won't affect (effect?) me quite as much as others will be by it.

 

Stepping back from the personal aspect of this, but accepting that price increases are a part of life*; price increases that are greater than inflation does impact the game, albeit in a minor way. Let's face it, somebody with loads of disposible cash won't be affected by this, and will continue to buy what they want/need. However, someone at the other end is being hit with a higher price at point of sale, while being held back by a wage/income that probably isn't rising at the same level. Especially our younger recruits on pocket money/allowance.

 

* I'm not going into the rights and wrongs of increases, or why they are what they are such as share holders, overheards etc.

I think the problem with such massive price increases is people buy less which hurts their profit thus they increase prices to offset that, thus they create a vicious circle.

 

I have a hard time justifying $50 for 3 models only slightly larger than a standard troop choice model. A 5% increase puts those models up to $52.50, now I can justify that purchase even less.

 

Aggressors/inceptors are $50 currently that’s $16.66 per model

HIs are $60 that’s $12 per model. Agressors don’t have $4 more worth of materials in them.

[Slave to Darkness]

 

 gig tickets.

Yes, bring back the Warhammer Record label!!!! 

[phandaal]

 

For me, purely because I like the model(s). As I don't game, everything I buy is for collecting and painting. The price increase is a bummer, but it won't affect (effect?) me quite as much as others will be by it.

 

Stepping back from the personal aspect of this, but accepting that price increases are a part of life*; price increases that are greater than inflation does impact the game, albeit in a minor way. Let's face it, somebody with loads of disposible cash won't be affected by this, and will continue to buy what they want/need. However, someone at the other end is being hit with a higher price at point of sale, while being held back by a wage/income that probably isn't rising at the same level. Especially our younger recruits on pocket money/allowance.

 

* I'm not going into the rights and wrongs of increases, or why they are what they are such as share holders, overheards etc.

I think the problem with such massive price increases is people buy less which hurts their profit thus they increase prices to offset that, thus they create a vicious circle.

 

I have a hard time justifying $50 for 3 models only slightly larger than a standard troop choice model. A 5% increase puts those models up to $52.50, now I can justify that purchase even less.

 

Aggressors/inceptors are $50 currently that’s $16.66 per model

HIs are $60 that’s $12 per model. Agressors don’t have $4 more worth of materials in them.

 

 

Kit prices got me into converting/kitbashing a lot more than in the past.

 

For example, my bike Chaplain is kitbashed from Indomitus parts and bling from old Terminator kits. My attack bikes are converted from Outriders at about 1/3rd the price. A lot of my Deathwing are kitbashes of the actual Deathwing kit and discount Terminator kits from eBay.

 

And so on.

[Slave to Darkness]

 

 

For me, purely because I like the model(s). As I don't game, everything I buy is for collecting and painting. The price increase is a bummer, but it won't affect (effect?) me quite as much as others will be by it.

 

Stepping back from the personal aspect of this, but accepting that price increases are a part of life*; price increases that are greater than inflation does impact the game, albeit in a minor way. Let's face it, somebody with loads of disposible cash won't be affected by this, and will continue to buy what they want/need. However, someone at the other end is being hit with a higher price at point of sale, while being held back by a wage/income that probably isn't rising at the same level. Especially our younger recruits on pocket money/allowance.

 

* I'm not going into the rights and wrongs of increases, or why they are what they are such as share holders, overheards etc.

I think the problem with such massive price increases is people buy less which hurts their profit thus they increase prices to offset that, thus they create a vicious circle.

 

I have a hard time justifying $50 for 3 models only slightly larger than a standard troop choice model. A 5% increase puts those models up to $52.50, now I can justify that purchase even less.

 

Aggressors/inceptors are $50 currently that’s $16.66 per model

HIs are $60 that’s $12 per model. Agressors don’t have $4 more worth of materials in them.

 

 

Kit prices got me into converting/kitbashing a lot more than in the past.

 

For example, my bike Chaplain is kitbashed from Indomitus parts and bling from old Terminator kits. My attack bikes are converted from Outriders at about 1/3rd the price. A lot of my Deathwing are kitbashes of the actual Deathwing kit and discount Terminator kits from eBay.

 

And so on.

 

and if you play Guard Wargames Atlantic do 30 passable guardsmen for cheaper than 10 Cadians. Ive built my army for less what I spent on a Cadian start collecting box and another Leman Russ tank. 

[Metzombie]

If people are that bothered about GW prices then 3D print, buy recasts, hit up ebay or go third party and download the books, simple. 

 

'But Slave, you buying recast or 3D printing takes money away from the mini designers etc'. Yes and no, Im not gonna buy a Titan at GW prices even if there is no third party/recasts, so Im not taking money away from anybody as they would never be seeing it anyway.

 

'But Slave, if everybody did that the company will die'.  I doubt it, there is enough people happy to pay their prices so they will continue. I dont actually hate GW, I love the setting and I always will. But I (and a lot of people here it seems) like to have dinner drinks and dancing before we get ... 

 

If you guys dont mind the pricing, thats great and I have no issue with anybody paying through the nose for a small bit of plastic, what you all do with your cash is down to you. I will still support GW through novels (I only download codex books etc, I resent paying that cash for a book thats gonna be errata'd on release day and ends up as toilet paper a few years later), paints and brushes (pure lazyness and I dont wanna wait over a week for a pot of paint to turn up when GW is literally ten mins walk from my house), Im not screaming for a boycott, were technically doing it anyway as Im not the only person here thats looking elsewhere for their fix, just pointing out there IS ways to hobby without breaking out the lube before every purchase. 

Yeah stealing really solves all the problems

[The Neverborn]

Yeah stealing really solves all the problems

 

.... That would depend on what you perceive the problem to be and if you I think there's a problem in the first place.

 

For anyone who's not seen it yet Couldn't find it here yet so

 

https://trade.games-workshop.com/assets/2022/02/Price%20Change%20UK%2003_22__1.xls

[Slave to Darkness]

Essential Meaning of steal

1: to take (something that does not belong to you) in a way that is wrong or illegal

2: to take (something that you are not supposed to have) without asking for permission

3: to wrongly take and use (another person's idea, words, etc.)

 

Full Definition of steal 

intransitive verb

1: to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as a habitual or regular practice

2: to come or go secretly, unobtrusively, gradually, or unexpectedly

3: to steal or attempt to steal a base

 

I have stolen nothing... 

 

I literally own one squad of recast Krieg, better report me to the cops... 

No one has a issue with GW stealing other peoples ideas though... 

[Dark Shepherd]

 

Yeah stealing really solves all the problems

 

 

.... That would depend on what you perceive the problem to be and if you I think there's a problem in the first place.

 

For anyone who's not seen it yet Couldn't find it here yet so

 

https://trade.games-workshop.com/assets/2022/02/Price%20Change%20UK%2003_22__1.xls

Thanks for the spreadsheet. Eurozone seems to be copping the worst of the price increases, and we have been getting hammered on the exchange rate for years as it was.

Thats Fenrisian Wolves doubled in price in 5 years and they had to unload them in the blind boxes. And they killed Ragnar Blackmanes pair in the lore

[The Neverborn]

 

Essential Meaning of steal

1: to take (something that does not belong to you) in a way that is wrong or illegal

2: to take (something that you are not supposed to have) without asking for permission

3: to wrongly take and use (another person's idea, words, etc.)

 

Full Definition of steal 

intransitive verb

1: to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as a habitual or regular practice

2: to come or go secretly, unobtrusively, gradually, or unexpectedly

3: to steal or attempt to steal a base

 

I have stolen nothing... 

 

I literally own one squad of recast Krieg, better report me to the cops... 

 

No one has a issue with GW stealing other peoples ideas though... 

 

 

I on the other hand have stolen loads of things from GW. I'd say somewhere between £200 to £300 of stuff....

 

Smoked weed in College, drank under age, parked illegally, literally ran from the police (and didn't get caught)

 

Still not in prison. I actually got SC cleared for work a while back too.

 

I'm actually thinking, I'm going to hold off with my Eldar until i can have a fully non-GW army.

 

Essentially I'm willing to commit a crime if I don't think I'll get caught, so far it's working out fine. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Battle Brother Abderus

[Redcomet]

if I commented what I want about the questionable morality on display, I would get booted out of the forum

[RWJP]

Threadomancy

 

So with the price increases, I was just wondering what exactly people are paying for in their mind when they buy a unit.

 

Are paying for the plastic itself? Or the abilities/quality of the unit in game?

Personally im willing to accept a 10-15% of price to be influenced by the quality of the unit on table top, but I still view it primarily as “is the physical model(s) enough to justify the cost?

 

What about the rest of you?

I'm paying for time.

 

Even with these price increases, I still feel 40k offers a pretty good Cost to Time ratio for a hobby/leisure activity.

 

Let's use a box of Intercessors as an example. If I pay £36 post-increase and spend 5 hours building them that comes in at about £7.20 per hour of hobby time, which is about equivalent to a cinema ticket in terms of expense (my local cinema charges about £14.50 now). Of course, I don't just get 5 hours of use out of those Intercessors. If I then use them in a game, that's another 3 hours of hobby time out of them. All of a sudden the cost per hour of hobby time starts to drop considerably. The more games you add on, the more the cost per hour goes down.

 

(Of course, the actual plastic content, utility in games, aesthetics of the minis etc also comes into it as well)

 

Obviously this does vary from product to product (a character mini for example offers a worse cost to time ratio initially for example), but I feel it still averages out pretty well.

Edited February 10, 2022 by RWJP

[The Neverborn]

 

Threadomancy

 

So with the price increases, I was just wondering what exactly people are paying for in their mind when they buy a unit.

 

Are paying for the plastic itself? Or the abilities/quality of the unit in game?

Personally im willing to accept a 10-15% of price to be influenced by the quality of the unit on table top, but I still view it primarily as “is the physical model(s) enough to justify the cost?

 

What about the rest of you?

I'm paying for time.

 

Even with these price increases, I still feel 40k offers a pretty good Cost to Time ratio for a hobby/leisure activity.

 

Let's use a box of Intercessors as an example. If I pay £36 post-increase and spend 5 hours building them that comes in at about £7.20 per hour of hobby time, which is about equivalent to a cinema ticket in terms of expense (my local cinema charges about £14.50 now). Of course, I don't just get 5 hours of use out of those Intercessors. If I then use them in a game, that's another 3 hours of hobby time out of them. All of a sudden the cost per hour of hobby time starts to drop considerably. The more games you add on, the more the cost per hour goes down.

 

(Of course, the actual plastic content, utility in games, aesthetics of the minis etc also comes into it as well)

 

Obviously this does vary from product to product (a character mini for example offers a worse cost to time ratio initially for example), but I feel it still averages out pretty well.

 

Out of interest is there a point a specific point you would say it's not good value.

 

Sub question, do you know the exact £ that would be?

And would you keep playing/paying reluctantly or just pack it?