GW and pricing, there's a problem.

[phandaal]

This thread encouraged me to look at their financial statements.  I think this is the latest one.

 

But in that statement, something else caught my eye:

 

"Our epic Horus Heresy novel series is drawing close to its galaxy changing conclusion. Currently standing at over 7.5 million words, we aren’t aware of a more detailed and in-depth story in any fantasy or science fiction IP."

 

Emphasis mine.

 

Oh really?  Galaxy changing conclusion. 

 

Interesting.

 

They are talking about Horus fighting the Emperor.

[Cactus]

Yeah, the "galaxy changing conclusion" has been known for a while.

 

The Emperor dies

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/public/style_emoticons/default/starwars.gif

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

 

Even as a supporter of 3D printing and more than willing to use proxy models, I won't be buying one myself. As already has been pointed out I don't want Toxic chemicals about the place.

That is my stance as well. After reading up the safety datasheet on SLA resin and seeing that it's a lung irritant and the recommended handling is to wear a filtered mask if in the area for short periods or wear a self contained breathing device if in the area for a long time it basically noped me out.

 

I've had people tell me it's "not that bad" and "it only causes rashes" but I don't want rashes inside my lungs. Plus too many chemicals have later been found to cause health issues for me to want to half-ass it in my little two room apartment.

then just get a filament printer if you don’t like the resin

Still requires a lot of cleanup to eliminate step lines and doesn't offer the fine resolution that resin printers do.

 

I'd basically only consider one for terrain printing.

the lines aren’t that bad on my prints, clean up is stupid easy…

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

For me it just seems easier to pay someone else to do it.

 

A 3D printer is going to have a cost of X, while I've got to pay someone for their time they have to buy the printer mess about with all the chemicals, learn how to use the software etc etc.

 

And I still get my minis, cheaper than going to GW and I can chose from a handful, probably eventually dozes if not hundred of sculpts :)

 

Yes it's still breaking the law, and as we know

 

 

 

 

 

parked illegally,

 

You are literally the worse lol..

I classify myself as a tech retard, and I’ve managed to figure it out.

For a filament printer at least you just plug it in and download a free program, and my printer was only roughly $300, so basically the new eldar/chaos box, plus some paints glue, and brushes…

[Schlitzaf]

Should we really be talking about blatantly stealing here?

[BitsHammer]

Should we really be talking about blatantly stealing here?

No we should not. Besides supporting indie creators who make compatible models would be a much more appropriate way to use a 3d printer if one didn't want to sculpt their own stuff from scratch.

[phandaal]

Yeah, the "galaxy changing conclusion" has been known for a while.

 

The Emperor dies

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/public/style_emoticons/default/starwars.gif

 

[phandaal]

Should we really be talking about blatantly stealing here?

 

3D printing a model is not stealing any more than sculpting your own minis out of greenstuff is stealing. Stealing would be going in to your FLGS or local GW store and taking models out of the store without paying.

[BitsHammer]

 

Should we really be talking about blatantly stealing here?

 

3D printing a model is not stealing any more than sculpting your own minis out of greenstuff is stealing. Stealing would be going in to your FLGS or local GW store and taking models out of the store without paying.

 

IP Theft is still legally theft, even if you want to claim that nothing was physically stolen. 

[phandaal]

 

 

 

 

Should we really be talking about blatantly stealing here?

3D printing a model is not stealing any more than sculpting your own minis out of greenstuff is stealing. Stealing would be going in to your FLGS or local GW store and taking models out of the store without paying.

IP Theft is still legally theft, even if you want to claim that nothing was physically stolen.

Sorry, but no. You can pretty much make whatever you want for your own personal use aside from banned substances and weapons.

[BitsHammer]

 

 

 

Should we really be talking about blatantly stealing here?

3D printing a model is not stealing any more than sculpting your own minis out of greenstuff is stealing. Stealing would be going in to your FLGS or local GW store and taking models out of the store without paying.

IP Theft is still legally theft, even if you want to claim that nothing was physically stolen.

Sorry, but no. You can pretty much make whatever you want for your own personal use aside from banned substances and weapons.

 

No one is saying people can't make their own stuff that fits within the setting, people are saying you shouldn't just use direct scans of GW models.

[Halandaar]

 

 

 

Should we really be talking about blatantly stealing here?

3D printing a model is not stealing any more than sculpting your own minis out of greenstuff is stealing. Stealing would be going in to your FLGS or local GW store and taking models out of the store without paying.

IP Theft is still legally theft, even if you want to claim that nothing was physically stolen.

Sorry, but no. You can pretty much make whatever you want for your own personal use aside from banned substances and weapons.

 

 

Right, but this conversation specifically includes paying other people to make 3d prints, at which point it's not personal use any more and is making money off of GW's protected IP.

[Domhnall]

Right guys, please let's not have this thread delve into the do's and don'ts of 3D printing and the legality of such like a few others have! I think the whole legality or not of it is a headache to the people who actually police this kind of thing, so a group of folks on a forum isn't going to solve it based on emotions and what not. 

 

Let's keep it on track with GW's pricing and related.

 

As such, I'm going along to the local store today, and I'm going to buy something. 

But I will also say for balance that last month I purchased a couple figures from Artel W because I really liked the sculpts they have (the not striking scorpion because of their 'Predator' vibe!). 

[phandaal]

 

 

 

IP Theft is still legally theft, even if you want to claim that nothing was physically stolen.

Sorry, but no. You can pretty much make whatever you want for your own personal use aside from banned substances and weapons.

 

 

Right, but this conversation specifically includes paying other people to make 3d prints, at which point it's not personal use any more and is making money off of GW's protected IP.

 

 

Maybe earlier that was the case, but what caused this latest bit was people saying to get a printer for personal use, other people saying no they do not want to for a variety of convenience/health reasons, and then someone else coming in and claiming we are all talking about "blatantly stealing."

 

If we are going to clutch our pearls, we should at least clutch them at the appropriate time, yeah?

[Uprising]

Look I will put this bluntly, our hobby is dying.  There are tools to save it / lower the barrier of entry, if you allow it.  The cost are getting higher and higher.  I may make a separate topic, but what age is your youngest in your group?  If we have no one to play against all we have is a bunch of scattered people going to tourney or just painting, which gives GW less money, which cause price increases, which the cycle repeats.  

 

I could get into the 3d printing stealing topic, but that depends on laws of where you live and moral issue, which debating is a waste of time.  

[tychobi]

Look I will put this bluntly, our hobby is dying. There are tools to save it / lower the barrier of entry, if you allow it. The cost are getting higher and higher. I may make a separate topic, but what age is your youngest in your group? If we have no one to play against all we have is a bunch of scattered people going to tourney or just painting, which gives GW less money, which cause price increases, which the cycle repeats.

 

I could get into the 3d printing stealing topic, but that depends on laws of where you live and moral issue, which debating is a waste of time.

Hard disagree. GW may stumble but the hobby is bigger than that. Participation and access to hobby has never been higher.

[BitsHammer]

 

Look I will put this bluntly, our hobby is dying. There are tools to save it / lower the barrier of entry, if you allow it. The cost are getting higher and higher. I may make a separate topic, but what age is your youngest in your group? If we have no one to play against all we have is a bunch of scattered people going to tourney or just painting, which gives GW less money, which cause price increases, which the cycle repeats.

 

I could get into the 3d printing stealing topic, but that depends on laws of where you live and moral issue, which debating is a waste of time.

Hard disagree. GW may stumble but the hobby is bigger than that. Participation and access to hobby has never been higher.

 

Agreed. And sure, we might not have the same traction with Gen Z at the moment as we do with earlier generations, but those generations are raising kids on miniature wargames which only goes to foster more future players.

[Chiam]

 

 

Look I will put this bluntly, our hobby is dying. There are tools to save it / lower the barrier of entry, if you allow it. The cost are getting higher and higher. I may make a separate topic, but what age is your youngest in your group? If we have no one to play against all we have is a bunch of scattered people going to tourney or just painting, which gives GW less money, which cause price increases, which the cycle repeats.

 

I could get into the 3d printing stealing topic, but that depends on laws of where you live and moral issue, which debating is a waste of time.

Hard disagree. GW may stumble but the hobby is bigger than that. Participation and access to hobby has never been higher.

 

Agreed. And sure, we might not have the same traction with Gen Z at the moment as we do with earlier generations, but those generations are raising kids on miniature wargames which only goes to foster more future players.

 

 

I will chime in on this. People need to look beyond their 'hobby bubble' because they fall in the trap of believing this is what makes the hobby as a whole. It is the discussion every time I see a competitive argument, because while to a single person their twelve friends play only competitive this makes them disbelieve and ignore that for each of their twelve friends there are twelve others who actually believe that the game is fun, that don't even know or care that FAQs exist. 

 

The whole hobby dying comment is one of these moments. It clearly isn't, I know four people who run children based hobby groups within a single city and are struggling to make space for young hobbyists. My local GW has 32 schools and scout clubs on there Alliance list with constant support for large groups of young students who want to play and paint. Two universities both have Warhammer Societies who regularly meet and play in the local area. There are three social clubs that mean there are games somewhere each night for people who want to play. 

 

Then there is the collecting and painting scene. Three Warhammer stores, and at least a dozen independent retailers who all work well together, with respect and all report record amounts of hobbyists and interaction. 

 

Again it may be my city bubble, but it's a story I hear from many other hobbyists who are actually involved in the community beyond forums.

[Domhnall]

 

Look I will put this bluntly, our hobby is dying. There are tools to save it / lower the barrier of entry, if you allow it. The cost are getting higher and higher. I may make a separate topic, but what age is your youngest in your group? If we have no one to play against all we have is a bunch of scattered people going to tourney or just painting, which gives GW less money, which cause price increases, which the cycle repeats.

 

I could get into the 3d printing stealing topic, but that depends on laws of where you live and moral issue, which debating is a waste of time.

Hard disagree. GW may stumble but the hobby is bigger than that. Participation and access to hobby has never been higher.

 

 

The other thing to take into consideration is that GW is at the high end of the hobby. There are other game systems that have lower entry costs or price for models.

 

40k is just the most well known/popular, so more people know it and play it. Can be difficult to move away from that if everybody in your local area has/plays it though.

 

The age thing is even worse (from observations) for WW2 based games, in that the vast majority are older even than me (and more likely to be beardy), and I'm not a young whippersnapper any more. 

 

 

 

A rhetorical question for thought, that's more aimed at ourselves rather than pricing:

Do we as a community have an unrealistic expectation on how many models we "should" be allowed to have over what is actually reasonable? What I mean by this is we want to have everything, and multiple of some of them! But is this a realistic expectation? I have more figures than I know what to do with (pile of shame) and I don't even play! I still want more, but I don't need, or have space for more! 

When I were lad, I had enough money to buy 1 thing every month. At one point (2nd edition) I had about 4000-5000 points: most of the Blood Angels characters, 1 Tactical squad, 1 devastator squad, 1 assualt squad, 1 Death Company, 1 Terminator squad, 1 deadnaught, couple vehicles, and some other squads for other Chapters, and a 3000 point tyranid army. I never thought I was hard done by with what I had. That didn't come till I was older, when I had more money to spend and the need to have everything I wanted! It wasn't so much as "I'll buy what I can, and I'll be happy", but more "why can't I have everything? They are making it so I can't have everything!" 

I'm past that now thankfully, and understand I can't have everything (i'd like a wall full of expensive guitars and a 1973 Trans Am SD 455 in my garage, but that's not going to happen!). I buy what I can afford and appreciate such, because everything is expensive nowadays, and wee plastic dudes just seem really expensive in comparison (they are, but that's the way it is). 

[The Neverborn]

Look I will put this bluntly, our hobby is dying.  There are tools to save it / lower the barrier of entry, if you allow it.  The cost are getting higher and higher.  I may make a separate topic, but what age is your youngest in your group?  If we have no one to play against all we have is a bunch of scattered people going to tourney or just painting, which gives GW less money, which cause price increases, which the cycle repeats.  

 

I could get into the 3d printing stealing topic, but that depends on laws of where you live and moral issue, which debating is a waste of time.  

 

 

"Dying" seems to be a bit hard term, at least in the literal sense.

 

Becoming more exclusive I'd agree, more expensive; most people would probably agree with that.

 

There will come a time eventually, probably within some of our life times when collecting games workshop is like saying Subbuteo or Philately collector. i.e. still going on, but probably with more people in active participation who are a lot older.

 

My (fairly obvious) insight into GWs more recent developments is that they are probably going to try and grow other aspects, games, movies, TV shows etc etc. We'll see if that takes or not and if so how much "sanitising" it needs to be marketed and sold most effectively.

 

Not of that is really about the prices and there being a problem.  But in terms of the 3D printing, 3rd Party use of models, it's somewhat inevitable with the cost now and going forward. GW just aren't going to lower the prices.

 

Your alternatives are to keep paying... whatever price GW want to charge for a squad/box, stop playing or play something else. If you're invested already to the tune of hundreds or thousands already. You're probably not going to pick one of the last two.

 

The topic is "GW and pricing, there's a problem."

[phandaal]

 

 

Again it may be my city bubble, but it's a story I hear from many other hobbyists who are actually involved in the community beyond forums.

 

 

I see lots of young people at the stores around me. That is also in one of the bigger cities in North America, but even when I lived in small towns the local stores still had youngins around.

 

From a personal standpoint, GW was prohibitively expensive for me as a kid. My collection was miniscule because stuff was just so expensive. When plastic kits came out it did help some, but still there was no way for me to build a big army. Did not stop me from becoming a Warhammer enthusiast.

 

GW is definitely going to miss out on sales if they keep pushing the envelope on pricing, but the hobby as a whole probably will keep doing fine. Inexpensive minis that "count as" GW stuff, One Page Rules for a simple gateway into actually playing the game, etc.

 

The good thing about 40k is it really does not require GW to be doing all that great as a company to keep going. It is not an online game that needs the company to maintain servers - as long as minis exist and people can get their hands on a common ruleset, the game will continue.

[Dark Shepherd]

The hobby is a bit gassy rather than dying

[BitsHammer]

 

 

Look I will put this bluntly, our hobby is dying. There are tools to save it / lower the barrier of entry, if you allow it. The cost are getting higher and higher. I may make a separate topic, but what age is your youngest in your group? If we have no one to play against all we have is a bunch of scattered people going to tourney or just painting, which gives GW less money, which cause price increases, which the cycle repeats.

 

I could get into the 3d printing stealing topic, but that depends on laws of where you live and moral issue, which debating is a waste of time.

 

"Dying" seems to be a bit hard term, at least in the literal sense.

 

Becoming more exclusive I'd agree, more expensive; most people would probably agree with that.

 

There will come a time eventually, probably within some of our life times when collecting games workshop is like saying Subbuteo or Philately collector. i.e. still going on, but probably with more people in active participation who are a lot older.

 

My (fairly obvious) insight into GWs more recent developments is that they are probably going to try and grow other aspects, games, movies, TV shows etc etc. We'll see if that takes or not and if so how much "sanitising" it needs to be marketed and sold most effectively.

 

Not of that is really about the prices and there being a problem. But in terms of the 3D printing, 3rd Party use of models, it's somewhat inevitable with the cost now and going forward. GW just aren't going to lower the prices.

 

Your alternatives are to keep paying... whatever price GW want to charge for a squad/box, stop playing or play something else. If you're invested already to the tune of hundreds or thousands already. You're probably not going to pick one of the last two.

 

The topic is "GW and pricing, there's a problem."

If you've built up a collection you can choose to stop collecting but keep playing too.

[Dam13n]

This topic has deviated a long way away from its original premise, that of GW's escalating prices and the impact that has on the hobby.

Given that the last couple of pages have focussed almost entirely on 3d printing and the legality of that particular avenue of accruing miniatures, rather than the subject of GW's prices, I think it's time to call this topic done.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Dam13n