SG match ups and VV match ups.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Recently finished my SG and have some VV on the way.

 

Not looking for a list of each unit SG should prioritize and VV should prioritize while in the same list, but generalizations, should the VV with shields face off against the more killy units of an opponent and the SG face off against the more durable units?

[Tokugawa]

SG is better against opponent with multiple units of exactly 2 wounds, or opponent with few -3/-4AP weapons.

 

 

[CCE1981]

Sanguinary Guard should pair with a Librarian with Null Zone and go after high invulnerable save units. VVs should team up with a Sanguinary Ancient and go after units, with LCs, or vehicles/monsters with Thunderhammers.

[Karhedron]

SG should also be paired with a Warlord ideally for that +1 to-Hit.

[CCE1981]

SG should also be paired with a Warlord ideally for that +1 to-Hit.

“A Warlord” give your Librarian Psychic Mastery and he’s “a Warlord”. The wording isn’t “your Warlord”.

[Karhedron]

 

SG should also be paired with a Warlord ideally for that +1 to-Hit.

“A Warlord” give your Librarian Psychic Mastery and he’s “a Warlord”. The wording isn’t “your Warlord”.

 

No, I think it has to be your actual Warlord.

 

If you give a model a WLT via a stratagem, the stratagems say something along the lines of "the model is only regarded as a Warlord for the purposes of the trait". That means it is not a target for "Slay the Warlord" but also does not benefit from rules that give the Warlord a bonus.

[BloodyB]

Hordes fall fast before VV. I run mine with chainswords and hand flamer. They rip through the hordes in my local meta so fast.

[CCE1981]

 

 

SG should also be paired with a Warlord ideally for that +1 to-Hit.

“A Warlord” give your Librarian Psychic Mastery and he’s “a Warlord”. The wording isn’t “your Warlord”.

No, I think it has to be your actual Warlord.

 

If you give a model a WLT via a stratagem, the stratagems say something along the lines of "the model is only regarded as a Warlord for the purposes of the trait". That means it is not a target for "Slay the Warlord" but also does not benefit from rules that give the Warlord a bonus.

The words are different. Like I said the wording doesn’t say “your Warlord” then you would be right. It says “...any friendly Blood Angels Warlord models...”. I think that clearly means that using that stratagem counts.

[Khorneeq]

Sadly only one model in your army can get Warlord keyword and ruling in Sanguinary Guard entry specify that by using bold letters. That means that Hero of the Chapter doesn't fulfill requirement for being Warlord

[Karhedron]

Hordes fall fast before VV. I run mine with chainswords and hand flamer. They rip through the hordes in my local meta so fast.

Actually, single lightning claws are better point-for-point at killing hordes than chainswords. The reroll to wounds and extra point AP are worth the points against all targets.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

So general consensus is VV for troops and SG for elite infantry?

 

Which tends to work better against vehicles/monsters?

 

My SG are 3 swords, a fist, and axe, with inferno pistol and plasma pistol.

 

Will be building VVs as LC+SS

[BloodyB]

 

Hordes fall fast before VV. I run mine with chainswords and hand flamer. They rip through the hordes in my local meta so fast.

Actually, single lightning claws are better point-for-point at killing hordes than chainswords. The reroll to wounds and extra point AP are worth the points against all targets.

I know, but I don't like the look of a single claw. But the claw is definitely better. Of course, it doesn't make a big difference against their usual prey, little Gaunts, Gretchen and Guardsmen are all squishy enough to fall before an attack that wounds on 2s and has a single point of AP. It matters more against marines, sisters and Crons, but in the latter two cases, the assault doctrine extra attack and AP can make the claw seem a little like overkill. The claws are way better, but not always needed.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

Hordes fall fast before VV. I run mine with chainswords and hand flamer. They rip through the hordes in my local meta so fast.

Actually, single lightning claws are better point-for-point at killing hordes than chainswords. The reroll to wounds and extra point AP are worth the points against all targets.

I know, but I don't like the look of a single claw. But the claw is definitely better. Of course, it doesn't make a big difference against their usual prey, little Gaunts, Gretchen and Guardsmen are all squishy enough to fall before an attack that wounds on 2s and has a single point of AP. It matters more against marines, sisters and Crons, but in the latter two cases, the assault doctrine extra attack and AP can make the claw seem a little like overkill. The claws are way better, but not always needed.

theres no such thing as overkill.

[Karhedron]

Which tends to work better against vehicles/monsters?

 

My SG are 3 swords, a fist, and axe, with inferno pistol and plasma pistol.

 

Will be building VVs as LC+SS

If you want dedicated tank hunters then TH/SS VanVets are probably the best unit but of course you pay a lot for the privelege and they only hit on 4s so may well need something like a Chapter Master or a Chaplain with Litany of Hate to give them decent rerolls.

 

LC/SS VanVets and fantastic horde clearers and can put in a good showing against tougher infantry too. They are also really good at bogging down nasty opponents thanks to their 2+/4++ save but LCs will struggle to push through a lot of damage against vehicles/monsters. The exception is against units with a -1 Damage rule (Deathguard, Dreads etc) where 2D weapons are at serious disadvantage.

 

SG are generally pretty good against against most targets. An Encarmine glaive will wound even T8 vehicles on a 4+ thanks to Red Thirst and the AP-3 and 2D will cause the damage to stack up quickly. Plus the SG have plenty of attacks and usually hit well thanks to Heirs of Azkellon.

 

You 5 man SG squad will average 10-12 wounds against most tanks/monsters (without an invulnerable save) on the charge. If they are near the Warlord, that goes up to 14-16. If the Warlord is a Captain or Lt granting rerolls of 1s, that goes up further still. If they are in the assault Doctrine then it just gets better still.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Karhedron

[Xenith]

 

 

 

SG should also be paired with a Warlord ideally for that +1 to-Hit.

“A Warlord” give your Librarian Psychic Mastery and he’s “a Warlord”. The wording isn’t “your Warlord”.

No, I think it has to be your actual Warlord.

 

If you give a model a WLT via a stratagem, the stratagems say something along the lines of "the model is only regarded as a Warlord for the purposes of the trait". That means it is not a target for "Slay the Warlord" but also does not benefit from rules that give the Warlord a bonus.

The words are different. Like I said the wording doesn’t say “your Warlord” then you would be right. It says “...any friendly Blood Angels Warlord models...”. I think that clearly means that using that stratagem counts.

 

 

If you read the actual wording of the stratagem though:

 

"that model it is only regarded as your WARLORD for the purposes of that Warlord Trait."

 

 

It very clearly specifies that a model receiving a trait is very much not counted as your warlord. 

 

Only your actual designated warlord counts as your warlord for Heirs of Azkellon.

[CCE1981]

In every other instance the terminology is “your Warlord”. Under Heirs of Azkaellon it says “...any friendly Blood Angels Warlord...”. In what other way would you have multiple Warlords for that terminology to apply if it didn’t mean a model upgraded by Hero of the Chapter? It’s a wrotten exception to the rule.

[Jolemai]

Determining a Warlord is mentioned on the BRB page 238 (and 251).

When you select your army Warlord, that model gains the keyword: Warlord

When you pay for another Character to have a Warlord Trait, it doesn't gain the keyword: Warlord

Heirs of Azkaellon only interacts with models that have the keyword: Blood Angels Warlord - this is the chap you selected to be your Warlord at the start.

[Karhedron]

I agree. Much as I would like it to be otherwise, Heirs of Azkellon triggers off your one-and-only Warlord. Not any model with a warlord trait.

[Leonaides]

What it would apply to would be a doubles game where you and your partner are both playing blood angels and both have a warlord.

[Xenith]

Not all warlords have warlord traits, not all models with warlord traits are warlords. 

 

The trait is irrelevant in dtermining what model is your warlord. 

 

In every other instance the terminology is “your Warlord”. Under Heirs of Azkaellon it says “...any friendly Blood Angels Warlord...”. In what other way would you have multiple Warlords for that terminology to apply if it didn’t mean a model upgraded by Hero of the Chapter? It’s a wrotten exception to the rule.

 

Anyway, your reading is incorrect, it says any friendly BLOOD ANGELS WARLORD models, meaning the rule triggers off the key words...of which only the model you nominated as your warlord gets. Heroes of the Chapter confers a warlord trait, but not the WARLORD keyword (in addition to explicitly saying that the model that gains a trait is in no way a warlord), so no dice, I'm afraid!

Edited May 24, 2021 by Xenith

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

In every other instance the terminology is “your Warlord”. Under Heirs of Azkaellon it says “...any friendly Blood Angels Warlord...”. In what other way would you have multiple Warlords for that terminology to apply if it didn’t mean a model upgraded by Hero of the Chapter? It’s a wrotten exception to the rule.

it says blood Angel WLT because you can have a WL from another chapter or imperial faction in your army...