Building FW vehicles

[Valkyrion]

I don't have much experience with FW vehicles, so are we talking like master model maker skills to put together a fellblade or fire raptor or mastodon?

 

Or will gorilla glue and a file do just fine?

 

[MARK0SIAN]

In my experience it depends on the model. Some are only a little more effort than plastic but some are atrociously cast or misaligned and need lots of shaping, filing, green stuff, pinning, clamping or other more random stuff.

 

A lot of the time the instructions are also like that meme for how to draw an owl where it says “draw two circles, now draw the rest of the owl.”

 

If you’ve not done it before I’d certainly start with something smaller rather than jumping into a bigger kit.

 

For what it’s worth, the fire raptor has a reputation as one of the worst kits to build.

Edited May 24, 2021 by MARK0SIAN

[Valkyrion]

I built a caestus assault ram once, only to split it in half whilst drybrushing it, and that put me off anything bigger than normal marine sizes.

 

What about the contemptors and leviathans? Are they simple enough?

[Imren]

Get the following:

• Pin vise
• 1 mm drill bit
• 1 mm brass rod
• 2-component epoxy glue (the quick setting, ca 5 min)
• razor saw
• files
• filler putty
• sand pads

 

I strongly suggest you youtube some how-tos on wash/clean and assemble them.

 

Superglue works fine om resin infantry, but for larger models i really recommend epoxy glue instead. Also I pin both infantry and vehicles, which I recommend too.

[Brother-Captain Gilead]

In my experience the dreadnoughts are on the simpler side, while the Fire Raptor and Stormraven are notorious for all the wrong reasons. Main challenge with the dreadnoughts I feel is that if you haven't test fit properly you might end up with some of the pieces not fitting properly. At least that's what happened when I built my Legio Custodes contemptors and I ended up having to tear down some of the parts after I had glued them on to fix the position and make the rest of the components fit properly.

 

Whatever you end up deciding, good luck and enjoy tinkering with resin, it took me some time to get used to it but now I wouldn't change my resin miniatures for anything.

[Valkyrion]

Last question then - what about the hybrid tanks - deimos vehicles and the MKIIb land raider? They seem kinda simple?

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

I built a caestus assault ram once, only to split it in half whilst drybrushing it, and that put me off anything bigger than normal marine sizes.

 

What about the contemptors and leviathans? Are they simple enough?

Leviathan would be a good choice. It's on the easy side and is quite sturdy. All the ball joints sit pretty deep so even without the pins they hold on very well. Here you have the instruction. Of course it's a FW model so standard caveats apply: miscasts, badly alligned parts, gaps (greenstuff and Tamiya putty are your best friends for sure) and so on.

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla

[Shovellovin]

Get the following:

• Pin vise
• 1 mm drill bit
• 1 mm brass rod
• 2-component epoxy glue (the quick setting, ca 5 min)
• razor saw
• files
• filler putty
• sand pads

 

I strongly suggest you youtube some how-tos on wash/clean and assemble them.

 

Superglue works fine om resin infantry, but for larger models i really recommend epoxy glue instead. Also I pin both infantry and vehicles, which I recommend too.

I would add a heat gun. I've found that tool to be useful when assembling FW models.

[Brother-Captain Gilead]

Last question then - what about the hybrid tanks - deimos vehicles and the MKIIb land raider? They seem kinda simple?

 

Having built eight of the Deimos rhinos and a MKIIb Land Raider they are, in my experience at least, sort of easy and simple, but there is a rather unfortunate potential for problems as the very standard pieces made of plastic meet the resin pieces that have a lot more divergence. Some of the Deimos sidepieces, for example, can be really warped so you need to do a lot of cleaning and bending to make them fit the side of the plastic chassis and then you need to do a lot of work to hide the joint whereas with the purely plastic tank the pieces in general fit together so well that that isn't an issue. I don't know why, but with a purely resin model like the Spartan, a Contemptor or a Land Raider Proteus that problem doesn't seem to manifest itself as much as it does with a hybrid model, again at least in my experience.

[Sothalor]

Oh GOD.

 

*Fire Raptor PTSD intensifies*

[MegaVolt87]

Dreads, sicarans, and rhino/ preads are all fairly straightforward. LR's and super heavies, aircraft are way more difficult to assemble. My Falchion and Spartan needed an ungodly amount of gap filling, filing to fit and parts needed re-bending with hot water. I still have a typhon unassembled, though thats more due to apathy than an aversion because of difficulty. 

[Cris R]

Related question: what are the pros and cons of filing FW vehicles with a heavy duty filter mask on versus doing this underwater? I know resin really isn’t good for you, so I don’t know which method is better when you’re trying to put together something like a Spartan that sounds like it needs major work. Edited May 25, 2021 by Cris R

[NiftyVT]

Related question: what are the pros and cons of filing FW vehicles with a heavy duty filter mask on versus doing this underwater? I know resin really isn’t good for you, so I don’t know which method is better when you’re trying to put together something like a Spartan that sounds like it needs major work.

 

I wear a respirator when I file/saw (same one I use for airbrushing). Then I promptly vacuum the dust up.   Also, get clamps, rubber bands and 5 min epoxy. 

 

Clamps. . .

2020-01-17_05-52-20 by nifty, on Flickr

20190804_192701 by nifty, on Flickr

Edited May 25, 2021 by NiftyVT

[bushman101]

My Damocles Rhino had some serious warped side panels (its basically a basic Rhino with panels that 'clamp' over the sides.

My suggestion is to dry fit EVERYTHING, find warped parts and be ready to soak them in hot water to re-shape them

[Pacific81]

Get the following:

• Pin vise
• 1 mm drill bit
• 1 mm brass rod
• 2-component epoxy glue (the quick setting, ca 5 min)
• razor saw
• files
• filler putty
• sand pads

 

I strongly suggest you youtube some how-tos on wash/clean and assemble them.

 

Superglue works fine om resin infantry, but for larger models i really recommend epoxy glue instead. Also I pin both infantry and vehicles, which I recommend too.

 

I would add to this a modelling mask of some description because if your sanding heavily you probably shouldn't be breathing in that resin dust. And with some of the FW stuff it's the opposite end of the spectrum to a modern Hasegawa plastic kit you might be practically rebuilding the thing. 

 

This kind of thing is pretty good for filing, airbrushing etc. Always do the work in a ventilated room but if you're a serious modeller and spending a lot of time working on things these are essential I think

https://www.emodels.co.uk/force-8-half-mask-twin-respirator-with-typhoon-valve-and-pair-of-a1p2-filters-for-organic-vapours-gases-and-dust-fm-f8-a1p2.html

[Lucien Eilam]

I don’t think there’s anything massively tricky about the majority of Forge World kits now. If you take it slowly and carefully, dry fitting everything at each stage, it’s not really using any skills you won’t already have from plastics. There are edge cases – cut your own DIY canopy glass from a sheet of acetate (Arvus Lighter is still like this, I think), etched brass components (at least some of the Titans), literally the Lament Configuration disguised as a drop pod (Dreadclaw…), etc. – but they're rare nowadays.

 

If you only have a hobby knife, clippers and a file, it’s really going to test your patience though. Some of the contact points for the casting gates can be an inch square. To avoid damaging the component you need to cut a distance away from the point of contact and then carefully file/sand/carve the excess away. It can be a lot of material to remove by hand.

 

A razor saw is essential. A Dremel or similar rotary tool will save you hours. 

 

I only use epoxy for large areas where superglue is simply uneconomical. I don’t find it bonds much better than a good quality superglue, but you’ll go through a ton of 3g tubes of Loctite Power Gel building something like a Fellblade, and that adds up fast.

 

My number one tip is don’t be shy with the heat. Resin can take pretty high temperatures just fine, and its “natural” shape when heated will be the shape of the mould. The slight (or occasionally, not-so-slight…) warping you often get out of the box is typically because it was pulled while still slightly warm and flexible from curing.

 

I do have a heat gun somewhere, but I never use it. I find chucking the entire kit in a pan of boiling water for ten minutes after cleanup but before I start assembly solves most fit issues, and any lingering mould release into the bargain. In the pan, most components will visibly “relax” into the shape they should have been to begin with. The trick is not bending them again as you take them out and leave them to cool down.

 

Dry fitting each component as close to straight from the pan as you can tolerate will often eliminate any need to fill gaps. Adjusting the entire component while it’s flexible right down to the core like this allows for a really close fit all round. I can’t actually remember the last time I needed to use green stuff on a Forge World kit.

 

I’m convinced most of the rants about FW kits are down to trying to gently coax an inch-thick slab of warped resin into shape with a cup of warm water or wafting a heat gun vaguely in its direction for fear of damaging it. Forget that. Anything looks crooked, back in a bubbling hot pan it goes.

 

Related question: what are the pros and cons of filing FW vehicles with a heavy duty filter mask on versus doing this underwater? I know resin really isn’t good for you, so I don’t know which method is better when you’re trying to put together something like a Spartan that sounds like it needs major work.

 

Trying to do it underwater played havoc with my Dremel… 

 

It doesn’t really take a full-on respirator to keep the dust out of your airways. Won’t hurt if you have one, but a light dust mask will do the job, while being cheaper and more comfortable for long-term use. You’re not dealing with airborne asbestos microfibres or anything on that order of hazard.

 

Incidentally, the current Spartan kit is one of the easiest I’ve built (and I’ve built 50+, everything from Dreadnoughts and Rhinos to Fellblades and Titans). Integral tracks, and like 6 big, blocky components and you’re mostly done. The only fiddly bits are the sponsons.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Lucien Eilam

[Pacific81]

I would almost say if you enjoy making FW vehicles don't ever make a modern plastic AFV kit (Dragon, Tamiya, newer Airfix kits or most really these days) because you will realise what you are missing out on, in terms of accuracy of fit, quality of components and ease of the build. 

 

People that still make resin aircraft kits are generally affectionately thought of as people that enjoy self flagellation, simply because it's so much work involved and there is such a gulf in terms of the respective materials. 

[Cris R]

I don’t think there’s anything massively tricky about the majority of Forge World kits now. If you take it slowly and carefully, dry fitting everything at each stage, it’s not really using any skills you won’t already have from plastics. There are edge cases – cut your own DIY canopy glass from a sheet of acetate (Arvus Lighter is still like this, I think), etched brass components (at least some of the Titans), literally the Lament Configuration disguised as a drop pod (Dreadclaw…), etc. – but they're rare nowadays.

 

If you only have a hobby knife, clippers and a file, it’s really going to test your patience though. Some of the contact points for the casting gates can be an inch square. To avoid damaging the component you need to cut a distance away from the point of contact and then carefully file/sand/carve the excess away. It can be a lot of material to remove by hand.

 

A razor saw is essential. A Dremel or similar rotary tool will save you hours. 

 

What are some recs for reasonably sized razor saws? Green Stuff World has a small one that's the perfect size for smaller projects but I want some ideas for larger ones that won't take up a lot of space.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Cris R

[Lucien Eilam]

Personally, I mostly use a Tamiya #74024. Good, thin, consistent blades and easy to find replacements. Comfortable handle, holds the blade tight and stable.

 

If you can see them in person, I’m sure there are cheaper options, but it’s often hard to judge online how thick the blade is and whether the blade is going to be rattling about in the holder.

 

I don’t recommend the X-Acto type (red handle, blade kind of plugs into the handle), I’ve found the blade can slip inside the grip with those.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Lucien Eilam

[Jolemai]

 

 

 

 

Related question: what are the pros and cons of filing FW vehicles with a heavy duty filter mask on versus doing this underwater? I know resin really isn’t good for you, so I don’t know which method is better when you’re trying to put together something like a Spartan that sounds like it needs major work.

I wear a respirator when I file/saw (same one I use for airbrushing). Then I promptly vacuum the dust up. Also, get clamps, rubber bands and 5 min epoxy.

 

Clamps. . .

2020-01-17_05-52-20 by nifty, on Flickr

20190804_192701 by nifty, on Flickr

As someone who wants a Termite...

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

 

 

 

 

Related question: what are the pros and cons of filing FW vehicles with a heavy duty filter mask on versus doing this underwater? I know resin really isn’t good for you, so I don’t know which method is better when you’re trying to put together something like a Spartan that sounds like it needs major work.

I wear a respirator when I file/saw (same one I use for airbrushing). Then I promptly vacuum the dust up. Also, get clamps, rubber bands and 5 min epoxy.

 

Clamps. . .

2020-01-17_05-52-20 by nifty, on Flickr

20190804_192701 by nifty, on Flickr

As someone who wants a Termite...

 

My Cerberus was the old style, but it went together fine and as I understand it, has improved since.

Scorpius just needed a hair dryer

Managed to warp my Lucious Pod somehow but as one of the newer kits is goes together nicely.

My Sicaran never went together right

 

You're going to get some "free hobby" with FW kits and it can very with the age of the mould, but on the whole it's generally ok...

 

Ha, same with my Sicaran - no parts matched each other, starting with the lower hull (the bottom part), which was 1,5 mm wider than the main hull (how was that even possible?). And the ever question how the lower front glacis plate should align with the side parts - fun fact, if you look closely on the FW website, you will find out that every Sicaran chasis  is assembled differently in that area. The aesthetic design of the tank is superb, but the assembly design and execution are lacking.

 

As a side note,  I am not sure if "generally ok" is the right experience for the money.

[Bung]

 

 

I don’t think there’s anything massively tricky about the majority of Forge World kits now. If you take it slowly and carefully, dry fitting everything at each stage, it’s not really using any skills you won’t already have from plastics. There are edge cases – cut your own DIY canopy glass from a sheet of acetate (Arvus Lighter is still like this, I think), etched brass components (at least some of the Titans), literally the Lament Configuration disguised as a drop pod (Dreadclaw…), etc. – but they're rare nowadays.

 

If you only have a hobby knife, clippers and a file, it’s really going to test your patience though. Some of the contact points for the casting gates can be an inch square. To avoid damaging the component you need to cut a distance away from the point of contact and then carefully file/sand/carve the excess away. It can be a lot of material to remove by hand.

 

A razor saw is essential. A Dremel or similar rotary tool will save you hours.

What are some recs for reasonably sized razor saws? Green Stuff World has a small one that's the perfect size for smaller projects but I want some ideas for larger ones that won't take up a lot of space.

I use a jewelers saw for bigger stuff.

You can find them easily in eBay etc.

https://www.amazon.de/NIUPIKA-Juweliers%C3%A4ge-Rahmen-verstellbar-professionelles-Schmuckherstellungs-Set/dp/B01L1JXFDC/ref=asc_df_B01L1JXFDC/?tag=googshopde-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=435629169064&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9056482891992430406&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9048709&hvtargid=pla-304846214373&psc=1&th=1&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=106929036611&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=435629169064&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9056482891992430406&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9048709&hvtargid=pla-304846214373

[Dark Legionnare]

 

 

 

I don’t think there’s anything massively tricky about the majority of Forge World kits now. If you take it slowly and carefully, dry fitting everything at each stage, it’s not really using any skills you won’t already have from plastics. There are edge cases – cut your own DIY canopy glass from a sheet of acetate (Arvus Lighter is still like this, I think), etched brass components (at least some of the Titans), literally the Lament Configuration disguised as a drop pod (Dreadclaw…), etc. – but they're rare nowadays.

If you only have a hobby knife, clippers and a file, it’s really going to test your patience though. Some of the contact points for the casting gates can be an inch square. To avoid damaging the component you need to cut a distance away from the point of contact and then carefully file/sand/carve the excess away. It can be a lot of material to remove by hand.

A razor saw is essential. A Dremel or similar rotary tool will save you hours.

What are some recs for reasonably sized razor saws? Green Stuff World has a small one that's the perfect size for smaller projects but I want some ideas for larger ones that won't take up a lot of space.

I use a jewelers saw for bigger stuff.

You can find them easily in eBay etc.

I was just about to say the same about the jewelers saw. In addition, liquid green stuff for filling in tiny craters (air bubbles), gaps between fitting pieces (vehicle hull plates usually) especially on rhino/land-raideresque kits.

 

As a final input, for basically anything FW, but especially useful on big vehicle chunks: ultrasonic cleaner!!! Absolutely never going back to the brush days after buying one.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Dark Legionnare

[Gorgoff]

Last question then - what about the hybrid tanks - deimos vehicles and the MKIIb land raider? They seem kinda simple?

I have a Predator Executioner and it was fairly simple. You have to clean up the resin parts and may need green stuff here and there but all in all it was pretty basic building although I was stupid enough to break one of the parts and had to rebuild the plastic model, because I forget parts. ;)

[okonomiyakimarine]

In my experience that biggest issue to overcome is your expectations to build the model NOW. Dry fitting and patience, warming and cooling pieces in water to form them slightly or make them even snap back into their intended shape goes a long way.

I have a Falchion that seemed difficult at first sight, but doing everything step by step and making sure that everything sits as flush as possible did the trick. I used Tamina extra thin cement glue for plastic parts that construct the tank‘s core. The glue easily flows into seems, when applied From above. I also glued into flat pieces of plastic spruce to add strength. For resin parts I used pattex ultra gel. It helps to make cuts into larger surfaces like the side parts. So yeah, a super heavy plastic resin hybrid is a more complex project than a rather simple Anvillus drop pod, but I truly hate the model for how bad it goes together comparably. Also I would like to advice to check YouTube for builds as most modelers run into problems at some point and you can learn from these a lot. Like do not mix up track parts