New Codex Cover & 9th Ed Speculation/Rumours

[Skerr]

Well I am intrigued. I need to wrap my head around this more but so far sounds promising!

 

For 2000 point games most of us will be well over 10 cabal points and though there are 9 rituals I did not see any limitation or ties to a single cult for this mechanic, might bode well for other mechanics (but keeping my head out of the clouds, lol).

 

At first I thought the Ritual strat got nerfed though as far as we know these can combine. A easy +1 to cast for with no cp is nice. Throw on the strat if needed.

 

I dig the legion command traits also.

 

Now we need more info but I am getting a little excited.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Skerr

[Grendaxe]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/03/cabbalistic-rituals-are-about-to-make-your-thousand-sons-psykers-scarier-than-ever/

 

Yeah, Cabbalistic Rituals is looking really nice. Finally getting off psyker powers with some reassurance and not feel like a first time sorcerer fumbling with the warp   

A quick calculation would put me around 15-17 cabal points at the start of the game which should be plenty to play around with. I'm very curious in the other 7 options.

 

I still would like to see spells with a bit more of an impact but at least this looks and feels very cool and thematic.

[MillionsSons]

Cabbalistic mechanic looks great. Fluffy, fun to play, seems powerful and comes on top of our CP/stratagems

[Prot]

I'm still not crazy about this. I see we will have to buffer our Cabal points to be maintaining an undeniable power (8 Cabal Points), in turns 3-4. 

 

While the Cabal function is very good, the problem is unless some news comes out, we will still need to run multiple detachments so the CP we will lose from Patrols, will be compensated for with Cabalistic Rituals.

 

So for casting, I still stand by my original understanding that you're going to see a lot of 2+ Infernal Masters. That's your way of making sure you can't be denied. And they give 2 Cabal points.

 

What this means to me is by mid game you're probably going to be sitting at 2-3 Rubric squads/Scarabs = 3 Cabal Points. Ahirman=3, and hopefully your Infernal Masters (x2) = 4 points. Total of 10 points. This is assuming that most of your core units are intact. And a good portion of your list is a mix of units. 

 

Let's be honest, having a non-deniable cast once per turn is going to be the goal against certain armies, it's a must. (I just played against SoB last night, and the denial abilities on a 5+ from a bloody Rhino is NOT fun!)

 

Conversely, this may push people towards hardcore Cabal Point hording... (it depends on how good the rest of these are) and not dilute the potential Cabal Points. In this case you'll see DP's, and the odd Exalted in there to push the potential total up by 6 points.

[Xenith]

With access to a possible 20 powers 9+9+cult+smite, minus detachment antics, plus the drive to include more sorcerers through cabbalistic, I'm thinking the TS detachment ability has to be allowing multiple castings of the same power, maybe at 1higher warp charge for each additional time, like smite. Or hopefully at least the cult one everyone knows. 3 exalteds plus 3 aspirings is already 50% of your known powers chosen.

[Skerr]

It's definitely a shaking of the tree and that is refreshing and look forward to more.

 

Its true as the game goes on to later turns armies lose resources. Deny the deny might be key beginning of game to shut enemy psy down and establish psy dominance and we rely on other tricks mid late game. Geez I wonder what the 9 point one does.

 

Maybe there is a strat that adds to rolls for later turns.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Skerr

[Archaeinox]

Better find a way to get tokens fast. 

Oh and the playtester says today that there are rituals that cost 3 and 4 and are great, will probably be used often... good to know.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Archaeinox

[WarriorFish]

This is interesting indeed, I am partial to the ability to customise characters - improving psykers for a modest amount of points is nice. Especially for using floating points which can happen a fair bit for Sons :P The Cabbalistic thing seems like it could have potential. Again I like having options so I'm hoping they're all viable so you don't end up using the same ones all the time.

 

Looking forward to finding out more especially on general army things - i.e. the baked in bits you don't need to roll or spend points to get :P

[Prot]

What I'm really curious about at this point is WL traits, and Relics.

 

I've always struggled to fit them in with this army almost more than any other. Retrieving CP, or Dark Crystal have always been up there, but PA did give a few cool ones (but I think +1 to cast could be removed or different now that we have Cabal Points).

 

I imagine some ways of generating additional Cabal Points will be part of a trait or relic. But as usual I anticipate this to be a hard choice.

 

I've been making new lists based on the points changes in the new dex (part of the 2021 CA). As bizarre as this sounds, I still think CoT Time Flux is nerfed, even with the wound increase, (Heck I almost wish our Rubrics especially stayed at 1 wound!) but there are ways I'm discovering to deflect some of these points increases: 1 is the cost of Tzaangors going down (I believe) and don't quote me on this, but if I recall the Hellfire missile racks went down a good chunk. 

 

As a side note, we don't know what the Kopesh upgrade sword is yet, do we? I saw it in the CA points guide.

[PiñaColada]

I'm really interested to know which Ritual costs 9 Cabal Points. It's such an insanely high cost that odds are it's either crazy strong or really overpriced

[BoomWolf]

Well, either some rituals cost the same, or there is something bigger than 9, or there is a 1,and I can panthom what can be that minor.

 

9...autocast?

[PiñaColada]

They say in the article they cost between 3 and 9, so there's nothing so minor as a 1 or 2 point cost. But considering how strong (albeit situational) the one that costs 8 is, you gotta wonder what 9 is.

Max out damage on a spell? That'd be really good on a super smite but unless you really need 3MWs on a normal smite you'd never use it on anything less than d6 damage potential.

Immediately cast another spell at its minimum cast value (don't have to roll)?

Teleport after casting that power (meaning the caster basically gets a dark matter crystal jump)?

Something way worse than that, who knows? Exciting times!

[Prot]

They say in the article they cost between 3 and 9, so there's nothing so minor as a 1 or 2 point cost. But considering how strong (albeit situational) the one that costs 8 is, you gotta wonder what 9 is.

 

Max out damage on a spell? That'd be really good on a super smite but unless you really need 3MWs on a normal smite you'd never use it on anything less than d6 damage potential.

 

Immediately cast another spell at its minimum cast value (don't have to roll)?

 

Teleport after casting that power (meaning the caster basically gets a dark matter crystal jump)?

 

Something way worse than that, who knows? Exciting times!

 

 

A very powerful choice would be to cast the same power again (whether you passed or failed the previous attempt).

 

Another one I'm hoping for is a 2 Cabal Power: Any units in silver armour cannot cast powers for the batteround.... I kid, I kid...!

[MillionsSons]

They say in the article they cost between 3 and 9, so there's nothing so minor as a 1 or 2 point cost. But considering how strong (albeit situational) the one that costs 8 is, you gotta wonder what 9 is.

 

Max out damage on a spell? That'd be really good on a super smite but unless you really need 3MWs on a normal smite you'd never use it on anything less than d6 damage potential.

 

Immediately cast another spell at its minimum cast value (don't have to roll)?

 

Teleport after casting that power (meaning the caster basically gets a dark matter crystal jump)?

 

Something way worse than that, who knows? Exciting times!

The 9-point could an auto denial. Or something to shut down a culexus?

Or army-reroll 1 for psychic test....

[Xenith]

 

Oh and the playtester says today that there are rituals that cost 3 and 4 and are great, will probably be used often... good to know.

 

It's nice to know with an exalted you get 3CaP, which means you basically get a free cabal thing per turn, just by including that model.

 

 

As bizarre as this sounds, I still think CoT Time Flux is nerfed, even with the wound increase,

 

 

In a vacuum, it's indeed nerfed, but we dont know the range of faction abilities yet. Time might be 'on a casting roll of 9+ for this unit, resolve the psychic power's effects a second time". There's already something similar, right?

 

I'm believeing the hype, and actually put in a request for the book and box with my local supplier. I was reluctant to buy loads of books this edition, still am, but the last was Blood Angels ~8 months ago. 1 per 8 months is acceptable...right?

[Torbenos]

I do quite like that I can boost my terminator sorcerer, I love the model as a leader for my Scarab Occult. I'd like an Exalted Terminator Sorcerer, but Battle Psyker is something.

[Closet Skeleton]

Reroll wound of 1 is great, the problem is that when this is your sub-faction bonus.

A deniable spell, that you can not even cast-off, and that is going to apply to only a few units that are actually shooting on the targetted ennemy... wow

 

Compare to Bkack Heart sub faction bonus:

- Vect

- all units reroll 1 hit roll (shooting and CC)

- +1 level in power from pain table

 

Drukhari Cabals aren't comparable to TS cults at all. The only comparison for the Cults are the GK Brotherhoods and the Death Guard Plague Companies. For DG the Black Heart bonus compares to Inexorable Advance, then Plague Companies are on top of that and have no comparison with Drukhari stuff.

 

TS are a Chaos Marine subfaction already.

[Prot]

I'm guessing:

- Autopass a Psychic test

- Re-roll a test (obviously cheaper?)

- Gain extra Cabal Point?

- Use Points to auto pass an Infernal Master Ability

- Recast a power.

 

Things I'm really waiting on:

- Rubric/Scarab inherent ability? Is it still -1 AP to incoming damage of 1?

- Are we still getting 6" extra cast range?

- With Duplicity, can I still violently toss a Helbrute into my opponent's face?

[Ahzek451]

 

- Are we still getting 6" extra cast range?

 

The same guy dropping hints that have been correct so far, gave the heavy impression that this is not being replaced or going away. 

[BoomWolf]

I can see the "cancel perils" and "switch spell" effects going from stratagems to cabal powers.

[Skerr]

I also am excited for the legion command traits. Auspex Tactics video today showed a full table of command traits I did not see in the preview.

 

Any chance the Legion Command Trait; Ardent Automata for 20 points is a low rent psy dread upgrade from a hellbrute? Probably not as its not really Automata but wonder what it applies to? Feels like I am missing something obvious here without my book in front of me.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Skerr

[Xenith]

I also am excited for the legion command traits. Auspex Tactics video today showed a full table of command traits I did not see in the preview.

 

Any chance the Legion Command Trait; Ardent Automata for 20 points is a low rent psy dread upgrade from a hellbrute? Probably not as its not really Automata but wonder what it applies to? Feels like I am missing something obvious here without my book in front of me.

The command trait point upgrades are from munitorum field manual 2021mk2 I think, they've been in the wild for a few months.

[Hathor42]

Ardent automata could also be a upgrade for sorcerers in rubric units.

[WickedJester1013]

As much as we need more rubric options, I’d love to see spawn, tzaangors, and vortex beasts get some love. Maybe tied into cult of mutation similar to deathguards harbingers pox walker company.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Looking good so far. I wonder if Sorcerous Infusion might be a Cabal thing now too: If you cast a 9 or higher, spend a few Cabal points to get a Rubric or Terminator back. Gives them a place to put a lot of the casting-themed Stratagem effects.