New Codex Cover & 9th Ed Speculation/Rumours

[WarriorFish]

It looks like Relics are more interesting which is great. I should admit that I didn't realise AiD worked on Invulnerables so I don't feel like it got worse... :lol: The army wide 5++ is nice I think that is going to be one of the bigger shifts in how Sons play, as this helps non-psychic units for the first time.

 

Overall I think the codex has addressed a fair few issues so I'm keen to get some games in. I also think the Cabal Rituals are going to be a big part - games will surely be won by them when used well?

[Ahzek451]

I'ts going to take me awhile to possibly be turned on to the sniper goats. As a seasoned user of necron desthmarks, they suffer a similar problem but between them and the snipe goats, the death marks are miles better...which..says a lot of bad for the goats. Will require further playtesting.

 

I geuss some positive perspective for us, on the other side of the fence it seems between us and our silver brethren, we made out a lot better. Some feel bads going on for them it seems.

 

This book certainly has done what a lot of fans wanted, goats are ok, but definitely take a back seat.

 

Also still no needed major incentive for tzaangor to take chainswords and las over the blades. Damn.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Ahzek451

[Skerr]

Still processing everything and in general we are definitely way better off than we were.

 

As with all new changes some things are going to a bummer (is it confirmed AID does not affect invulnerable saves?) but it seems to have a lot of versatility, cohesiveness and synergy.

 

I don't mind at all that our Sorcerers are doing the heavy lifting. The Rubicae seem much better off and the support astartes units getting 5++ is a nice surprise.

 

The only real gut wrencher for me is otherworldy prescience but Ahriman did get another wound so...have to accept it. I suppose invulns are being scaled back a tad overall in 9th?

 

Vortex beast looks much better though I was hoping for unit buffs and opponents debuffs, still I am more likely to get one now.

 

Also miss a bit of the Tzangoors flavor like the modifer to character hits for pretty shiney relics, even the ws 3 but the reduction in points and invuln is super nice so I will take it. I think that wraps up all my complaints, its off my chest now and I am ready to accept change,

Edited August 7, 2021 by Skerr

[Prot]

I'ts going to take me awhile to possibly be turned on to the sniper goats. As a seasoned user of necron desthmarks, they suffer a similar problem but between them and the snipe goats, the death marks are miles better...which..says a lot of bad for the goats. Will require further playtesting.

 

I geuss some positive perspective for us, on the other side of the fence it seems between us and our silver brethren, we made out a lot better. Some feel bads going on for them it seems.

 

This book certainly has done what a lot of fans wanted, goats are ok, but definitely take a back seat.

 

Also still no needed major incentive for tzaangor to take chainswords and las over the blades. Damn.

 

Honestly I'm okay with less goats. I see using a squad and that's it.... but I do use Exalted. They always fall apart on me but they are fast in a relatively slow army. What I will say is I can see creeping up on weaker armies, like SoB, and sniping the heck out of Hospitalier's etc... weak character hunting at best, but usually these guys just get me quarters scoring. :)

[BoomWolf]

Didnt even look at the vortex beast before domus mentioned it. my god it has improved!

 

 

Honestly, whoever made the previews ought to be fired, they looked SO bad, and the book is SO good.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I'm pretty intrigued with this book, I did notice in the goonhammer preview lists that they had soulreaper cannons in 5 man squads of rubrics. Really like this change because I don't plan on running bray units for awhile.

 

That said I haven't played sons anywhere near enough in 9th to know how good they are.

 

Didnt even look at the vortex beast before domus mentioned it. my god it has improved!

 

 

Honestly, whoever made the previews ought to be fired, they looked SO bad, and the book is SO good.

I think it's better to preview it like they did. Concentrating on the character and troops gives a prospective player a good ideal of what they're getting in to. Then let the vets find the spicy stuff, because those rules are the ones that lead to the sky is falling when they are taken out of context.

[Ahzek451]

Eh, it's been the pattern since they joined social media. Cheeky teasers is the name of their game.

 

I do really like the vortex beast changes. And 2 fairly useful strats, it's like gw really wants us to use it. Sort of. One of the big issues from last time was it's defense ability which, does not look to have changed in the sense that it csn fairly easily still be shot off the board in one go. And that tactically speaking, many players valued having some more heavy weapons over this thing. But...I think now we have enough power boosts and distractions that perhaps this thing can make it mid board and get stuck in. The extra 2" to its movement certainly helps, I've had 2 on the standby since the last book and will give them a go.

[PiñaColada]

I'm super stoked for this book, it finally feels like my rubric hordes and 15 SoT will perform on the tables as I want them to. A bunch of great relics (seriously, just taking 3 is tough) and some pretty decent warlord traits makes our characters real interesting as well. We get a bunch of great strats so I don't think taking 3 detachments for cults is worth it but a battalion plus another patrol seems like a no-brainer to be able to double dip on cult goodies. I'll give GW credit here, it wouldn't have been difficult to make TS a bit bland and unimaginative (or crazy super strong with buff interactions) but it seems like they walked the tightrope and gave us a fun, solid codex

[Ahzek451]

I'll also give them some big credit for giving us 2 big items I may have bugged them about many times: making all bolters have inferno rounds. And giving an army special rule to them up our generic things like vehicles.

[BoomWolf]

I'll also give them some big credit for giving us 2 big items I may have bugged them about many times: making all bolters have inferno rounds. And giving an army special rule to them up our generic things like vehicles.

 

I'm really disappointed how they went halfway there and didn't do the same to flamers tough.

[sitnam]

Any word on what Cult of Mutation got? Always been my preferred aspect of Tzeentch

 

Also, I see the Icon of Flame adds cabal points, but does it still have the MW functionality too? And do Tzaangors still have access to it?

Edited August 7, 2021 by sitnam

[Zodd1888]

Overall I'm happy with the changes with one exception.

 

Rubric and Scarabs. AiD just doesn't feel like enough. Pretty expensive for extra AP on a Bolter and against what is a very D2+ heavy 40k Armoury. Offensive/Defensive ratio doesn't feel right.

 

Would have loved to see either a straight +1 armour save, toughness, or -1 to wound.

 

Overall pretty happy, just a little sour for the Dusty boys.

[BoomWolf]

I am very much not sour for dusty boys.

The simple rubric? yea, a bit. but an extra wound for almost no price is good. they have great defense against anti-horde guns, and the build in invul they always had gives decent defense against quality fire. they are decent.

The full smite is also a nice touch, as in (improved) soulreaper in 5 man squads, +1 to movement, the much improved spell access and the cabal generation.

But lets not forget the age of the warpflamer! for mere 1 point increase they enjoy all the rubric upgrades, but with now range 12 warpflamers so you can teleport into range! and a spell to give it +1S to boot! warpflamer rubric squads. I think we're gonna see a lot of warpflamer squads jumping around.

 

The scarab though are major winners.

ObjSec, extra wound, double damage in CC, cheaper and better ranged weapons, casting improvements with no meaningful price change? yes please!

I mean, a squad of 5 with a soulreaper and missile rack went up measly 8 points. (15 points for a bare bone 5 man squad)

They are GOOD. I cant see a list not taking at least 10 of them.

 

 

To be frank, I cant see a list not taking quite a lot of stuff, more than we have points for XD

Too many goodies is a problem we didn't have for a long time. I'm actually considering cutting down on HQs!

[Ahzek451]

 

 

I'll also give them some big credit for giving us 2 big items I may have bugged them about many times: making all bolters have inferno rounds. And giving an army special rule to them up our generic things like vehicles.

I'm really disappointed how they went halfway there and didn't do the same to flamers tough.

Yeah, but to add to this, also felt that heavy bolters should get rounds too.

[Skerr]

Comparing psych potential from last edition we came out well! Really happy with our spell selection, difficulty level casting and effects.

 

2-3 five man rubrics with soulreapers and icons is is a great way to boost those cabal points. I'm probably looking at 1 ten man rubric and 2 five man rubric squads.

 

Also several of the cults look like they could see some play. Plus with a couple other ways to heal models stacking with cult of Time we have increased ways of keeping models on the table.

 

Time will tell with AID and how effective it will be in the meantime we will have to be resourceful with all our tricks to mitigate threats.

 

Is double swords for Exalted Sorcerers back on the menu? Really happy to see ways of boosting those Cabal points.

[Marshal Loss]

Any word on what Cult of Mutation got? Always been my preferred aspect of Tzeentch

Completely unchanged.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

I was not expecting good news...really glad to hear it!

[Ahzek451]

Doing a super deep dive on rule wording, it appears if your warlord is ahriman, you cannot get access to a great cult relic. To anyone.

 

Alternatively, If your warlord is magnus or a great cult character, there is no way for ahriman to gain access to his warlord trait (the CP strat to get an extra warlord trait does not work on characters).

 

Sneaky stuff. Kinda sucks but I geuss ahriman trait isnt a must have anymore.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Ahzek451

[Zodd1888]

I think the thing I'm actually happiest with is the overall suite that 1kS have. I think they've finally nailed a format that works.

 

Cults, Psychic Powers, Cabals, and the Legion Traits feel like enough. Data sheets/points could use some work on a couple units but overall our bones have been fleshed out enough that I feel like we're probably there overall, just not 55+% win rate in the tournament field (I'm expecting 48-53 from the 40ish% we've sat at).

 

That said, it wouldn't take a lot to push us to top tier in the position we're in, but God I wish we got a sweep on Magnus.

[Mordas]

So having watched plenty of battle reports on youtube yesterday and reading up on everything I can honestly say this book is very exciting!

 

While All is Dust hasn't changed in a D2 meta at the moment, I don't see this as a bad thing. We get 5++ Obsec and fearless for that extra point! But looking at the meta recently you got to remember we are now seeing a lot of horde style armies on the board or armies with a lot of infantry on one wound (Necrons, Drukhari, Admech) and do not forget that D1 weapons are great for dealing with the Deathguard. So AID isn't as helpful as before but I do not think it will be as bad as people make it out to be.

 

With Magnus I would have loved to see him have a -1 to hit built in to his rules (permanently glamoured) to give him a bit more survivability on T1 if you don't go first. Otherwise he is pretty good, sweep would be nice but then again he will clear units in the Pyshic phase anyway.

 

I pre-ordered the hexfire box which will take me to 15 Scarab's but looking at the rules for the icon changing I think I am going to need another 2 squads to get them all modelled up properly taking me to 50 Rubrics

 

So now I am also pondering on getting a Mutalith and maybe a couple of Rhino's now that they have a 5++ for board control.

 

With the Tzaangors I can see them being a great little unit - take 2 and pop them into reserves and bring them on for Retrieving Data secondary and distraction unit.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Mordas

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I think rhinos will be a great way to get some rubrics up the board. The 5++ should keep them rolling long enough tpush them into a good spot and honestly if they feel they have to shoot your rhinos, you are coming out ahead...

[Skerr]

Indeed I took inventory last night and found a half finished chaos rhino (from my younger Black Legion days, lol) and some spare 1kson doors that I will put in the queue. Joyriding warpflamers has always been a dream of mine. Especially with that. warpflame spell. Some good screening potential also.

 

Was also getting bits together for a kitbashed Infernal Master.

 

Damn, I have bought a lot of rubric kits over the years and should be good regardless of loadout. Also bought a bunch of spare icons of flame on ebay years ago so I am set up for 5 man and/ or 10 man

flexibility. I am thinking one 10 man and 2 five man rubric squads though feel a lot potential for various MSUs or 10 mans of various loadouts. And I just realized our Aspiring and SO Sorcerers get full on smite instead of mini smite, more great news!

Edited August 8, 2021 by Skerr

[Iron Sage]

I think rhinos will be a great way to get some rubrics up the board. The 5++ should keep them rolling long enough tpush them into a good spot and honestly if they feel they have to shoot your rhinos, you are coming out ahead...

Yeah, Invulnerable save on all vehicles including the Rhino (!!!!!!!); that is a hidden gem in this new codex. Very surprised to see the Rhino get invul save. That is both strong and cool. A hidden gem I think. Not what you rave and rant about (heh, maybe I am, lol), but so, so nice.

[Naryn]

As nice as invul saves on Forgeworld goodies and Rhinos are, I expect it to last exactly until the first time someone on the rules team plays a game against a Thousand Sons army with them. Should see an FAQ first thing the next day :rolleyes:

[Ahzek451]

A lot of different ways to heal and regain wounds. One is a psychic power, a couple others are stratagems. But each one states that you can only heal once per turn. That being said, do others agree or disagree that magnus cannot heal himself twice in the same turn (one from a spell, another from a strat)?