New Grey Knights Codex

[Brother Lunkhead]

=][= REJOICE BROTHERS =][=

Link to official announcement here.

This of course, is not entirely unexpected with the Grey Knights v Thousand Sons box set hurtling towards Holy Terra. However, with an official announcement and an actual cover to look at, there is more food for speculation, and we can always do with more speculating, can't we

NOTE: Since discussion is already underway here, and in techsoldaten's fine thread in our forum, I may merge this thread with his

Edited May 27, 2021 by Brother Lunkhead

[techsoldaten]

Looking forward to it's arrival.

[Brother Sidonius]

Sanctic Astartes here we come! I can't exaggerate how excited I am to see what the rules are for the different brotherhoods :)

[Waking Dreamer]

We know our 9E Codex will have new rules associated with the new keywords <SANCTIC ASTARTES> and <BROTHERHOOD>, which in turn will make our army very different in set up to Codex: SM. Not many other SM Chapters have a separate sub-faction keyword like we will right?

 

And to address the elephant cover art in the room:

 

 

Are these...Primaris GK...??

[Tokugawa]

The codex is clearly Codex:GK. Not Codex supplements:GK. It needn't and can't use in combine with marine codex. So don't think about the marine primaris units.

[Skywrath]

As much as I really want them to be - I doubt it. Their shoulderpads are different from what we seen (see the one on the right), but you could always boil that down to artistic expression. IMO, the armor in the screenshot is the same, yet something about it feels.. different.

 

The bigger question is this - who is that BC/GM/Sergeant in Terminator armor? I'm assuming the two in front of him are unnamed purifiers, which indicates he is someone of importance. And the other bigger question is this - seeing how TS and GK codex are released at the same time, did anyone notice how both of their pictures seem to mirror each other's background? Which then in turn would indicate another conflict between TS and GK in 9th, which I suspect the codexes are setting up. Completing the circle (see what I did there ((Thousand Sons symbol))) there was talk of getting reinforcements for GK in ROTD if I recall right. Is this the conflict that might bring primaris into the fold for GK, assuming the picture is primaris marines, or at least later down the track? 

[The Woodsman]

Super excited as well! I for one do not think those a Primaris marines... just 9th-edition style artwork for firstborn Knights. Here's to (hopefully) a great new set of special rules for our unique Chapter as well as some perks for thematically fielding each of the Brotherhoods! (Also, may I just say that -20 pts on Land Raiders really makes my day... I have three painted - here comes the First Brotherhood ;) )

[Skywrath]

The codex is clearly Codex:GK. Not Codex supplements:GK. It needn't and can't use in combine with marine codex. So don't think about the marine primaris units.

 

You do realise that we can get distinctive primaris units specifically for us, seeing how we are specifically better than marines? We are the Bad Batch (grey knights) compared to the regular clones (regular marines).

Edited May 28, 2021 by Skywrath

[Waking Dreamer]

Here's an interesting question about our 9E Codex I have had on my mind for quite some time, will our rules be more similar to Codex: SM or will it be closer to Chaos SM?

 

As mentioned a couple times already, we have:

1. <SANCTIC ASTARTES> and <BROTHERHOOD> keywords, which makes us in line with DG, TS Codex.

2. We won't (?) have Primaris models and hence no use for the PRIMARIS keywords.

3. DG and presumably TS will get the +1A to their datasheets as they don't have Primaris equivalent models.

4. If we wont have Primaris models (in the immediate 9E at least), does GW also give us +1A to compensate?

5. If we get +1A do we lose Shock Assault like DG did, or in still being a loyalist Chapter do we also keep Shock Assault?

 

To summarise, do people think our standard datasheets will be exactly equivalent to Primaris (+1W, +1A , +1A with shock assault)?

 

Or will it be the same as the current firstborn units from other Chapters in Codex:SM (+1W, +1A with shock assault)?

Edited May 28, 2021 by Waking Dreamer

[Brother Lunkhead]

The codex is clearly Codex:GK. Not Codex supplements:GK. It needn't and can't use in combine with marine codex. So don't think about the marine primaris units.

 

 There's never been a question of whether Grey Knights would get there own codex or just a supplement for 9th Ed. It's always been a question of when the Codex would be released.

 

 

 

And to address the elephant cover art in the room:

 

Are these...Primaris GK...??

I do believe they are. Those GK's on the cover look to be wearing Aegis armor remarkably similar to Mk X Primaris armor. GW has always been very careful with it's cover art for it's Codices. More so than BL covers, so I'm not putting it down to lax artistic license. Either way, I'm looking forward to Codex: Grey Knights putting this speculation to bed.

[Captain Coolpants]

I personally don't think they look primaris on the cover.

 

But I am really hoping the release is more like the Eldar and dark Eldar one, they had the new character and their corresponding shrine units updated. So I'm hoping crowe AND purifiers get updated.

 

Unfortunately, its probably just going to be crowe and his rules will probably still suck aha

[Captain Antargo]

I don't know what you think, but that halberd sure looks like it has -3 AP 

[Skywrath]

I don't know what you think, but that halberd sure looks like it has -3 AP 

 

There is a word for that - it's called the Soul Glaive relic ;p

Edited May 28, 2021 by Skywrath

[Angry Banana]

I don't want them to go primaris, but primaris sized so that they fit their fluff descriptions would be very nice indeed.

In fact make then half way between a Primaris and Custodes please,  as my eyesight isn't what it used to be.

[Waking Dreamer]

Interestingly, in the lore a Custodes in first time meeting a GK in terminator armour states he is about a head shorter than himself with a slightly lighter build, and in another book a Primaris goes against a Death Guard marine and considers him to also be a head shorter but just as heavy or even heavier than himself. 

[casb1965]

Here's an interesting question about our 9E Codex I have had on my mind for quite some time, will our rules be more similar to Codex: SM or will it be closer to Chaos SM?

 

As mentioned a couple times already, we have:

1. <SANCTIC ASTARTES> and <BROTHERHOOD> keywords, which makes us in line with DG, TS Codex.

 

 

<SANCTIC ASTARTES> I think is purely to differentiate us from <ADEPTUS ASTARTES> and <BROTHERHOOD> will be our version of Chapter Tactics giving us some overarching GK rules and then sub rules for the different Brotherhoods.

[Marshal Loss]

GW has always been very careful with it's cover art for it's Codices. More so than BL covers, so I'm not putting it down to lax artistic license.

 

Not always. There have been plenty of covers, even recently, where artistic license goes well beyond what GW sell. Think e.g. the Dark Angels cover with robed Primaris you can't replicate with existing kits, or the recent Adeptus Mechanicus cover that sparked lots of fanciful speculation.

 

GW have gone back and forth on art precisely depicting models over the years, but 9th edition has swung back firmly in favour of artistic interpretation. Covers are just as often the product of artistic interpretation as they are an attempt to accurately recreate a kit. It's entirely possible that the new Crowe model is Primaris (though I think that's unlikely), but there's no doubt in this mind that the new GK codex cover depicts existing models, not a Primaris revamp. That the focal point is a Terminator speaks volumes.

[Trollbeard]

I think the Codex art looks great! I was pretty disappointed with the 8th Ed. Index being literally the same as 7th Ed. For all the books even, so glad for that lol.

 

I don’t want to say I have high hopes for the codex, but to me GW has done a good job on all of them so far, that I have seen in my local meta, so I have have medium hopes we’ll say for this one! GK are my favourite faction, and 8th Ed pre RotD was a dark time for us. As long as we don’t go back to that I’ll be happy!

[Sete]

Love the cover, but I'm also curious about the future of GK.

A single new kit can do a lot for a faction, and Crowe with a new squad box (would cover quite a few squad choices) would be surely an awesome incentive to pick up a box.

 

Eager to see the new Crowe model.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Sete

[Waking Dreamer]

MFM (aka Codex) GK points:

 

[Waking Dreamer]

New GK costs, which should be in codex, leaked. 

 

And it looks like nothing much changes for us. Strikes and their counterparts received a small price hike  for second wounds, same for terminators. Paladins, however, will become cheaper, and, I think, it is conformation, that they are not getting 4th wound. Difference between them and terminators will be only 5 pts per model. I hope, they will get bodyguard rule.

 

Apothecaries gained a major hike in points. They promise to be very strong choice.

 

GMNDKs and NDKs doesn't seem to get updated much, since they become even cheaper without upgrades. Our other HQ seem to be very cheap too. Crowe gained +5 points. Looks like he doesn't change much at all. Brotherhood champion is significantly cheaper. It is either a nerf or a cost drop. I am afraid, he won't get teleport strike.

 

Purifiers do now cost more than strikes. Maybe, they will get a slight update on their scroll.  Purgators are same as strikes, looks like they are not getting "ignore movement penalty". Shame.

 

All nemesis weapons, except hammer, have the same cost again. Looks like falchions are not getting +1 S, which is expected. Psilencer and incinerator are the same. Looks like no changes for them either. They also replace NFW+SB for free for 3+ guys. Terminators have to pay extra. Psycannons are +5 points compared to other weapons. 

 

I am afraid, we won't see much profile changes, but by simply bringing us in line with other marines will do a fair update. 

 

I am also afraid, that GK won't be treated properly once again and just a codex to fill a gap between grand releases. I won't bear another portion of lazy writing.

 

Of course, all of the above are pure guessing. Don't take it too serious.

 

Similar thoughts as above.

 

No extraordinary changes to our Special Weapons except the psycannon it seems. I'm guessing they've streamlined it to match the format of Gatling Psilencer = 2x Psilencers in output. The Heavy Psycannon = 2x Psycannon = 6 S7 AP-1 D2 shots (psycannons finally got their 2 damage yay...only took 4 years starting from August 2017 lol).  Heavy Incinerators will just have D2 over the Incinerators D1. 

 

They did change Falchions cost, so they actually thought about if for more than a minute (+1A in exchange for the other weapons getting +1S/+2S/+3S over it).

 

Bodyguard rule for Pallies will definitely give them a niche to take in conjunction with Termies who naturally get the ObSec rule. If they dont get that rule, would +1A, +1Ld and +1WS on the Paragon be enough incentive for an extra 5ppm? Purifiers may have indeed changes on their datasheet (2A or 6" D6 Smite...maybe both)?

 

I'm kind of iffy for a rules boost in our Warp Tides (though we kind of need it - if we want to challenge A-tier armies) now. The new Brotherhoods, and our army-wide Chapter Tactic could give us the rules boost that these points don't reflect. 

 

Anyways, people have said the rules team in charge of all the WH40K army rules system, is on the shoulders of maybe 3 people max. So, if you want to keep your expectations grounded, that's an interesting thought to keep in mind I guess. 

[Waking Dreamer]

MFM (aka Codex) GK points:

 

 

^ Oh btw, no Primaris.

[Waking Dreamer]

Do people think Battlescribe will update GK points to match MFM before the Codex comes out (GW's app will hold off until the release of the GK Codex)?

 

I'd rather work with these points from now on, knowing that they would at least accommodate for 2W marines, 3W Termies and Pallies (cheaper now), +1S Force weapons (or cheaper Falchions and Daemonhammer). I'll have to accept the debuff of the hammer to AP-2 for being 5 points cheaper (disappointing but not wholly unexpected).

 

Hopefully near future batreps will feature GKs with these new points and buffs despite the Codex not yet arriving.

[Skywrath]

Do people think Battlescribe will update GK points to match MFM before the Codex comes out (GW's app will hold off until the release of the GK Codex)?

 

I'd rather work with these points from now on, knowing that they would at least accommodate for 2W marines, 3W Termies and Pallies (cheaper now), +1S Force weapons (or cheaper Falchions and Daemonhammer). I'll have to accept the debuff of the hammer to AP-2 for being 5 points cheaper (disappointing but not wholly unexpected).

 

Hopefully near future batreps will feature GKs with these new points and buffs despite the Codex not yet arriving.

 

Probably, for tournaments and stuff. Last I checked tournaments don't give a distinction for updated points with incoming codex or not, they just blanket state whatever the latest pts changes are.

[techsoldaten]

 

MFM (aka Codex) GK points:

 

^ Oh btw, no Primaris.

 

 

@Waking Dreamer - You cannot conclude there will be no Primaris Grey Knights.

 

GW already announced content in the MFM for GK and TS is incorrect.

 

It is impossible to take something the company itself said is trash and use it to make wild claims.