13 point gene stealers?

[XeonDragon]

So, GW community says gene stealers will be 13 points. Is that enough of a drop to make them viable, or even good again? 

[Lord_Ikka]

Not a Nid player, but having fought against them plenty- are genestealers considered bad by Nid players? I've had plenty of trouble with them popping up and ripping apart various units. If they're out in the open I've got no issues usually, but the players I've played against have used Trygons, Pheromone Trail Lictors, or just general Reinforcement/Infestation shenanigans to hide them.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Lord_Ikka

[XeonDragon]

Not a Nid player, but having fought against them plenty- are genestealers considered bad by Nid players? I've had plenty of trouble with them popping up and ripping apart various units. If they're out in the open I've got no issues usually, but the players I've played against have used Trygons, Pheromone Trail Lictors, or just general Reinforcement/Infestation shenanigans to hide them.

 

At least in my area, nids players consider them over-costed for what they do. Lots of talk about 'trading down' with them. 

[Xenith]

Not a Nid player, but having fought against them plenty- are genestealers considered bad by Nid players? I've had plenty of trouble with them popping up and ripping apart various units. If they're out in the open I've got no issues usually, but the players I've played against have used Trygons, Pheromone Trail Lictors, or just general Reinforcement/Infestation shenanigans to hide them.

 

The issue with all of those is the 9" charge when they come on. Stealers are better on the board so they can advance and charge, they can cover a lot of ground that way.

 

The issue is getting caught out of cover - they melt pretty easily. If you have enough terrain, they might be ok. Naturally it all depends on hive fleet interaction. For the current codex I'd say they should be cheaper. They're now the same points as a Necron Warrior who gets a 4+, then a 5+++ rerolling 1's, and guns with the same profile as a stealers melee weapons so they can reach out and do that damage from turn 1 with no fear of being hit back. 

 

10 pts was an issue, as while it was a fair reflection on the unit in the 40k meta, it basically made them the best unit in the codex - why take anything else when you could spend those points on more stealers. Unfofortunately this is a design issue with the codex in general - expensive units that do little. Pretty much all of our big beasts throw out fewer attacks for the same damage than an intercessor sergeant with thunder hammer (4A on the charge, S8, AP-2, D3 vs Hive Tyrant with talons for 4A, S6, AP-3, D3).

 

13pts per stealer doesnt seem enough to me. I think 12 would have been on the fence, and probably the best option, though this is in my current meta not having dealt with wyches yet. I think they have ways of always striking first and thus devaluing the genestealers. Maybe 14pts if genestealers got Strike First. That would be cool. 

[Arson Fire]

 

10 pts was an issue, as while it was a fair reflection on the unit in the 40k meta, it basically made them the best unit in the codex - why take anything else when you could spend those points on more stealers. Unfofortunately this is a design issue with the codex in general - expensive units that do little. Pretty much all of our big beasts throw out fewer attacks for the same damage than an intercessor sergeant with thunder hammer (4A on the charge, S8, AP-2, D3 vs Hive Tyrant with talons for 4A, S6, AP-3, D3).

 

13pts per stealer doesnt seem enough to me. I think 12 would have been on the fence, and probably the best option, though this is in my current meta not having dealt with wyches yet. I think they have ways of always striking first and thus devaluing the genestealers. Maybe 14pts if genestealers got Strike First. That would be cool. 

 

Were they ever 10 points? I thought the cheapest they've been since the start of 8th edition was 12. Given that rending claws are mandatory on them and have always cost 2 points.

 

 

9th edition hit genestealers hard. They were great in 8th because they could exploit the advantages of the 8th edition charge/fight phases much better than most other units in the game.

The points increase they took hurt, but I think the real damage was done when hostaging stopped being a reliable way to keep them from being shot to bits after a charge. Along with losing the assortment of multi-charge shenanigans that kept them safe from counter-offensives.

Extra coherency restrictions, changes to fighting in ranks, and the addition of blast weapons being a few other more minor changes that have reduced their effectiveness this edition.

 

The points going back down is nice. But they still aren't going to be anywhere near as good as they were in 8th.

As it stands, they're glass cannons. They hit something hard, and then they die. The primary methods of protecting them after that first charge, gamey mechanics though they may have been, have been removed.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Arson Fire

[WarriorFish]

I think the issues have been covered well enough, to me this was mostly apparent by their effectiveness against 2W Marines. They used to be the answer to such things but being halved in effectiveness is significant.

 

13pts is better, but it would be good to get a bit more. Either being cheaper, or getting some form of improvement. As one of the iconic units I think Genestealers should be good, they're supposed to be dangerous after all :P

[Xenith]

 

Were they ever 10 points? I thought the cheapest they've been since the start of 8th edition was 12. Given that rending claws are mandatory on them and have always cost 2 points.

 

 

 

That's me losing track of the changes then! I forget when weapons were built in and when they wern't - I thought stealer claws were 0pts for some reason. 

 

Even at 12pts, the only way they were deadly that I seen was with Swarmlord+ Kraken + Strats to sling them up the table. The other stuff shoule make them better, and shouldn't be the thing that makes them viable in the first place - so maybe 10pts each is fair.