Crusade: Who wants to build a Living Saint?

[ThePenitentOne]

So they previewed on of the Five trials that Sisters need to endure in order to earn the mantle of Sainthood.

 

I like what we've seen so far, and I can't wait to see the other 4 trials. I love that each trial includes multiple ways to complete it. I think the process of pursuing Sainthood will interact with the process of leveling up the heroine in really dynamic ways- you may have to choose between achieving Saint points (weak name) and earning experience through achieving Agendas- which is really interesting to me.

 

Like what about someone who achieves Sainthood before achieving rank; think Jeanne D'Arc who she shook the hierarchy- coming into the army green and questioning authority because God told her to do so vs. Thomas Becket, who followed the hierarchy of the church until it brought him into conflict with secular authority.

 

So who is growing a Saint, and how do you think the story will play out?

[WAR]

I will be doing it for sure

[BitsHammer]

I love the mechanic and it really gives the army something the community has been asking for since forever by letting us make our own saints.

[ThePenitentOne]

My Saint is going to be special. She starts as a Storm Bolter toting Dominion. At some point, she'll be promoted to the Superior of her unit- not sure how this will happen- I actually want to let the game decide. Minimally, her unit needs to achieve an Agenda, she needs to survive and her superior needs to be Martyred. Should be noted that this will have to be a historical battle outside the Indomitus Timeline.

 

She will then earn another promotion to Palatine; again, it's up to the battle to decide how/ why this happens. Another historical battle.

 

As a Palatine, she will discover Saint Katherine's shield burried beneath the Altar of the Chapel of Saint Katherine's Aegis. This will be the last historical battle; she will be promoted to Cannoness, and that will bring us into the Indomitus era.

 

This means I'll need at least four different models to represent her on the table. If I can use the same head for all 4, and never use that head for any other model, it should be spectacular. Her Cannoness model, incidentally, will be the Shield Bearer from the Triumph- she'll be magnetized so that I can use her as a Cannoness or as part of the Triumph.

 

This will require some house rules to achieve; she's going to start accumulating Saint Points as a Dominion (following the Jeanne D'Arc model from my OP). Also, so far Crusade rules for promotions have been minimal, so I'll have to figure those out; she'll have to keep her XP but swap her Battle Honours for those appropriate to her new station.

 

I really wanted to let her keep her Storm Bolter, but I'm not sure it's wise; it would prevent me from using the model in certain situations, though I guess my Cannoness version will already be Houseruled for her shield...

 

I've got a lot of painting and playing before I need to make that decision though.

Edited June 2, 2021 by ThePenitentOne

[taikishi]

While I'm happy for those of you who enjoy Crusades, I'd much rather they have given us a generic living saint as part of the main codex. I was only disappointed when the MFM leaks hit since it confirmed we weren't getting a generic saint, but now that I know there are living saint rules but only for Crusade, I'm extremely disappointed and a little angry.

[ThePenitentOne]

Yeah, rules for all ways to play would have been usable- after all, Master level characters can be purchased and used for DE. 

 

There IS still the potential that you can purchase a Living Saint upgrade for matched. I haven't looked at the new MFM yet- are the upgrades for Master Archon, Succubus and Haemonculus listed?

 

If not, your anger may be premature. I hope they give you what you need Brother.

 

The Emperor protects!

[taikishi]

I mean, I enjoyed Mordheim, 1E Necromunda, and pre-2010s Blood Bowl so I get the appeal. But I feel a generic living saint for Matched Play -- an actual model and not just an upgrade -- would be nice for those who don't want to bring Celestine it have a custom order. Just as I wish we'd gotten plastic Repressors instead of the Castigator. Just as I wish we'd gotten an additional troops choice and s new fast attack option instead of moving Zephyrim to FA. Just as I wish there'd been a new special characters for an Order other than Martyred Lady or agnostic.

[BitsHammer]

GW clearly didn't give us a "build a saint" option because they didn't give us a kit for it.

[taikishi]

I wasn't even thinking "build a saint" as much as:

 

Living Saint

* An army can only contain X units with the Saint keyword (proceed to give Celestine's unit the saint keyword).

* Fixed unit profile and options

* Fixed abilities and auras

* Probably no Order Conviction but doesn't break them, either

 

Basically something akin to the Sanguinor or a daemon prince ruleswise that would still be unique to Sisters. That would have been a lot better, in my estimation, than crusade rules that can only be used in narrative play. Heck, they could have done what I suggested and still had Crusade rules akin to a Marine becoming a dreadnought. Totally missed opportunity.

 

Edit: I don't mean ruleswise literally, e.g I don't think we should get a unit called a Living Saint that is just a daemon prince or Sanguinor renamed. I was thinking more in terms of general power level and rules fluff.

Edited June 2, 2021 by taikishi

[ThePenitentOne]

Did anyone follow up on whether or not there are points costs for Master Archon, Master Succubus and Master Haemonculus in the MFM leaks?

 

Because again, if they aren't listed, you might still be getting a Living Saint upgrade that is usable in Matched and Open.

[taikishi]

Wouldn't matter, because it doesn't address what I want. I've said, very specifically, that I don't want a living saint "upgrade". I want an actual Living Saint unit with its own list of rules, not "pay X points to upgrade your Canoness to a Living Saint." In fact, I think an upgrade option to make a character a Living Saint would be the worst way to handle it since a Living Saint could have come from outside the Ecchlessiarchy and the Sisterhood -- for example, Lord Macharius or Saint Drusus -- and the upgrade would be limited to Ministorum units.

[Closet Skeleton]

Like what about someone who achieves Sainthood before achieving rank; think Jeanne D'Arc who she shook the hierarchy- coming into the army green and questioning authority because God told her to do so vs. Thomas Becket, who followed the hierarchy of the church until it brought him into conflict with secular authority.

 

 

Niether of those are 'living saints', one was a martyr and the other was a obscure national heroine until the 20th century. The term 'living saint' implies that posthumous saints are the regular kind.

 

'Generic saint' would be almost a contradiction in terms. It would be like asking for Forgeworld to release a 'generic Primarch'. I guess we got a generic C'tan but those shouldn't really exist either.

[taikishi]

Considering I see saints on the same level as daemon princes, I can spin that as there shouldn't be generic daemon princes either.

[BitsHammer]

 

Like what about someone who achieves Sainthood before achieving rank; think Jeanne D'Arc who she shook the hierarchy- coming into the army green and questioning authority because God told her to do so vs. Thomas Becket, who followed the hierarchy of the church until it brought him into conflict with secular authority.

 

 

Niether of those are 'living saints', one was a martyr and the other was a obscure national heroine until the 20th century. The term 'living saint' implies that posthumous saints are the regular kind.

 

'Generic saint' would be almost a contradiction in terms. It would be like asking for Forgeworld to release a 'generic Primarch'. I guess we got a generic C'tan but those shouldn't really exist either.

 

The lore seems to be changing with Living Saints being manifestations of the Emperor's power in the modern setting. In the past, sure that was different, but Psychic Awakening seems to be changing the rules.

[toaae]

=][=

 

I hid a problematic post* and some replies to it. These replies might have had relevant discussion in them, but I chose not to edit them and possibly force my own voice into the poster's topic in an effort to remove the hidden post.

 

Thank you.

 

=][=

 

*=Flippant and unnecessary

Edited June 3, 2021 by toaae

[toaae]

On topic, I'm very excited for the system. Crusade has been a smashing success in my opinion, and I love how each codex has had its own progression systems. I'm quite excited to see one of my characters of my fledgling Sororitas force grow and eventually ascend. It's very cool and I cannot wait to see how this plays out.

[Montford]

I am very interested in this mechanic.

[sitnam]

Seeing the way things are going, I assume Thousand Sons will get a Daemon good mechanic. It'd be pretty fun to set my two armies against each other in a race towards apotheosis if I could convince my wife to play

[ThePenitentOne]

On topic, I'm very excited for the system. Crusade has been a smashing success in my opinion, and I love how each codex has had its own progression systems. I'm quite excited to see one of my characters of my fledgling Sororitas force grow and eventually ascend. It's very cool and I cannot wait to see how this plays out.

 

Yeah, I think that the saint rules are going to make us choose a Cannoness or a Palatine as our saint potentia; I was hoping it could be any Ministorum/ Sororitas character; given your order's fluff, I would love to see a Repentia Superior as a Saint Potentia. A Hospitaller would also make a really interesting candidate.

 

I already know who mine is, and she will fit the Cannoness/ Palatine mould, so it isn't as relevant to me as it otherwise might be.

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's any sororitas character, other than named.

[CaptainMarsh]

Yes, any normal Sororitas Character. I might use a Dogmata.
System looks fun. If there is any slight let down, it is purely because completing the Trials and getting those rewards are the whole thing. From the article I thought becoming a Living Saint at the end granted something- it is 'just' the blessings you get along the way. Still awesome, though.

Edited June 8, 2021 by CaptainMarsh

[ThePenitentOne]

You guys just made my whole day!

[Purifying Tempest]

My crusade group was actually coming up with building your own Saint rules for my army before this codex jumped into the fray. It will probably be one of the first things I try to do :D a shame so many channels just skipped over it in their reviews. Big miss on their part, I feel.

[ThePenitentOne]

Crusade Content review on Goons!

 

Repent!

 

https://www.goonhammer.com/codex-adepta-sororitas-crusade-review/

[ThePenitentOne]

Got my dex yesterday, so I'm putting my money where my mouth is and building a weird little 25 PL Bloody Rose Crusade.

 

I say weird, because it's going to be a Vanguard, not a Patrol, meaning it will eat all of my CP just to put it on the table. Also, the Warlord and Saint Potentia is a Repentia Superior. The idea is that these are the survivors of a mission that was wiped out; they hold themselves responsible for the deaths of their sisters and want nothing more than to bring the Emperor's Justice to the vile forces of Chaos who murdered their sisters, or to find Martyrdom in the attempt.

 

In an actual competitive game, I think this list would get stomped for days. Even in our casual setting, I'm expecting to lose often. This Crusade's objective is to achieve its Agenda and earn Repentance points for the two Repentia units, and Saint points for the Superior- not to win. As the Crusade grows, these objectives will change, but for now, the survivors of the massacre at the mission must make their way through the chaos infested city and if they survive, connect with other missions that have not yet fallen.

 

Detachment: Vanguard

Order: Bloody Rose

Agenda: Atonement in Battle

Sacred Rite: Hand of the Emperor

 

Warlord, Repentia Superior, Saint Potentia: 2PL

Warlord Trait: Executioner of Heretics (1RP) - I took this trait to buff the effect of the Neural Whips

Relic: Wrath of the Emperor (1RP) - This army has little shooting, and this model has limited equipment which can be upgraded to Relic status

 

Preacher (Pious Vorne Model): 2PL

Warlord Triat: Inspiring Orator (1RP) 

Relic: The Sigil Ecclesiasticus (1RP)

Hymns: War Hymn, Refrain of Blazing Piety

Zealot's Vindicator

 

10 x Sisters Repentia: 6PL

 

10 x Sisters Repentia: 6PL

 

3 x Mortifiers: 9PL

Each equipped with 2 Heavy Bolters and 2 Buzz Saws

 

Total: 25 PL

 

On the table, the Repentia superior will drive and support one Repentia unit, while the Preacher drives and supports the other, while the Mortifiers provide fire support. It is my intention to restore these Repentia using the Glorious Redemption requisition. 

 

This Crusade will eventually connect with the larger narrative in the Chronicle of Saint Katherine's Aegis, but it is a long, long road.