Now that we can summon

[McElMcNinja]

I am glad they say we can summon without losing our contagions, will that change our lists?

 

I had lists written thinking we could, but it was so unclear. Since then I have written lists where we couldn’t and I think they are strong, now I have to rethink everything (I hope in a good way). Plus inexorable advance has change, such good news. How does this effect your list building?

[Special Officer Doofy]

By inexorable advanced has changed, do you mean they removed the FAQ about terrain so it now works for that, or did I miss something else? I don't think that will change my list building as much as it changes how much and what terrain I put on the battlefield for when my brother comes over haha. I have started a Nurgle daemons army, got the start collecting box and that box that came with the two characters and 20 plague bearers, so I do hope to summon eventually but never have before, so I can't comment on that.

 

I was upset about the DR change initially but I got over that, the only thing that still upsets me about the new codex is the bubonic astartes keyword and how our Daemon engines don't have it. Sooooo stupid. Loyalist get their chapter traits to every unit that has the <chapter> keyword, why can't our Daemon engines get our legion trait and shoot without penalty while in combat? Sorry for the gripe, I was hoping it would get changed with the FAQ/errata.

[Lord Raven 19]

...the only thing that still upsets me about the new codex is the bubonic astartes keyword and how our Daemon engines don't have it. Sooooo stupid. Loyalist get their chapter traits to every unit that has the <chapter> keyword, why can't our Daemon engines get our legion trait and shoot without penalty while in combat? Sorry for the gripe, I was hoping it would get changed with the FAQ/errata.

Probably for a lore and a rules reason. Lore: Daemons are uncooperative and not particularly controlled, so wouldn't adopt the combat patterns of the marines they fight near. Rules: Because that's part of the poxmongers stratagem.

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

 

...the only thing that still upsets me about the new codex is the bubonic astartes keyword and how our Daemon engines don't have it. Sooooo stupid. Loyalist get their chapter traits to every unit that has the <chapter> keyword, why can't our Daemon engines get our legion trait and shoot without penalty while in combat? Sorry for the gripe, I was hoping it would get changed with the FAQ/errata.

Probably for a lore and a rules reason. Lore: Daemons are uncooperative and not particularly controlled, so wouldn't adopt the combat patterns of the marines they fight near. Rules: Because that's part of the poxmongers stratagem.

Lore: So it's part of the lore that somehow imperial fist tanks/vehicles shoot extra bolt rounds occasionally or that that black templar tanks/vehicles can charge better or further on average and somehow resist mortal wounds like magic better? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense for those examples either, even with the human pilots it's still only capable of what the vehicle is capable of.

Rules: the main part of that strat is to be able to shoot blast weapons while in engagement range. I play as poxmongers and have a heavy Daemon engine lists. Entropy cannons in 8th were not plague weapons and were d6, then PA gave them a strat to make them plague and 3+d3, and now that's not a strat and is just base on the model.

 

It is just a stupid rule. Not looking to argue why it is or isn't, that's off topic and doesn't have anything to do with summoning.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Putrid Choir

[KingYertle]

Related to summoning, here is a question for the putrid collective.

 

Point 5 of the Rare Rule on Rules that Count as Remains Stationary states:

 

5. Such rules mean that any other rules (abilities, Stratagems etc.) that are used or triggered when a unit Remains Stationary (e.g. Grinding Advance) can be used/are triggered.

 

Summoning is performed "instead of moving".  But if our units count as having remained stationary (which itself is defined as having not performed a move action) and we can use abilities that trigger when we remain stationary can we summon after performing a normal move?

[Special Officer Doofy]

@MCB82 that's a good question!

[Lord Raven 19]

@MCB82 Yeah, I think that works, RAW, seems a bit gamey, but CSM can do it with the Master of possession using psychic powers, so maybe? Although, the wording of summoning is still the 8th one, so might just be an unintentional interaction.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

My 2 pennies is no.

 

'Counts as stationary if having moved' and 'instead of moving' to me sound like to separate things.

 

Besides surely you would want to give your full concentration to summoning evil amoral entities lest they use you tripping over a stick as an excuse to use YOU as the portal into the mortal world.....

[Xenith]

Related to summoning, here is a question for the putrid collective.

 

Point 5 of the Rare Rule on Rules that Count as Remains Stationary states:

 

5. Such rules mean that any other rules (abilities, Stratagems etc.) that are used or triggered when a unit Remains Stationary (e.g. Grinding Advance) can be used/are triggered.

 

Summoning is performed "instead of moving".  But if our units count as having remained stationary (which itself is defined as having not performed a move action) and we can use abilities that trigger when we remain stationary can we summon after performing a normal move?

 

If you have to give up moving, then you have to give up moving. 'Counts as stationary' if they move is something else, however if they move, then they have moved and anything they could do instead of moving has been forfeited.

 

So in your movement phase, you can either choose to move, or choose not to move. If you choose to move, then daemonic ritual cannot be used, even if Inexorable Advance says you count as being Stationary. 

[KingYertle]

 

Related to summoning, here is a question for the putrid collective.

 

Point 5 of the Rare Rule on Rules that Count as Remains Stationary states:

 

5. Such rules mean that any other rules (abilities, Stratagems etc.) that are used or triggered when a unit Remains Stationary (e.g. Grinding Advance) can be used/are triggered.

 

Summoning is performed "instead of moving".  But if our units count as having remained stationary (which itself is defined as having not performed a move action) and we can use abilities that trigger when we remain stationary can we summon after performing a normal move?

 

If you have to give up moving, then you have to give up moving. 'Counts as stationary' if they move is something else, however if they move, then they have moved and anything they could do instead of moving has been forfeited.

 

So in your movement phase, you can either choose to move, or choose not to move. If you choose to move, then daemonic ritual cannot be used, even if Inexorable Advance says you count as being Stationary. 

 

 

While I follow your logic I still think there is an argument for this interaction.  The example given in the FAQ (Grinding Advance) indicates that by counting as remaining stationary you ignore any movement performed by the unit for the purposes of the unit's abilities that could trigger if you remained stationary.  Per the CRB if you don't move you count as having remained stationary.  Therefore you need to Remain Stationary if you wish to Summon.  If you count as having Remained Stationary and Ignore any movement for Grinding Advance shouldn't you also count as having Remained Stationary and ignore any movement by the unit for purposes of summoning?  I think there is an argument there.

 

My guess is that in the near future Summoning will become an Action and performing Actions while counting as Remaining Stationary is addressed by the FAQ  (Cannot be performed if the unit has Advanced or Fallen Back this turn even if they count as having remained stationary).

[Annatar Giftbringer]

Sadly I believe that even “counts as stationary” means you made a move, and thus it wouldn’t work. You either summon, or move. If you move (the default action during the move phase) you may choose to move 0”, i.e remain stationary. It’s still a move though…

[Xenith]

Definitely one to send to the FAQ team!