Infantry Squad Loadout

[Captain Antargo]

Being completely new to Imperial Guard, I have no idea what weapons are the best choices for us, as well as points efficiency and all that. Looking for the best weapons for the sergeant and the special weapons guy. All help is appreciated!

[The Woodsman]

I'm not a Guard pro but I've been playing them since the codex came out in 8th. It does depend on your Doctrine(s) and what else you have in your list. I personally like flamers because of the auto-hitting and the strength 4 that can come in handy sometimes. I've never been a fan of grenade launchers, the Krak is too hot or miss for me and you're better off with 4 lasgun shots (with First Rank Fire) instead of rolling the d6, but some people do like them. Plasma can be useful, especially if you've got an extended rapid fire range (Disciplined Shooters, Armageddon), but seeing as you'll most likely be using First Rank Fire and not Take Aim, Overcharging can be an issue. I don't think meltas are worth it, too expensive and getting in range can be tricky unless you're in a Chimera, but I've seen lists with massed meltas which could be surprisingly good against vehicles. Snipers are bleh, I have some in command squads with missiles but it's more for fluff reasons, but again unless you are massing snipers across infantry squads, special weapons squads and command squads... Ain't really worth it. Heavy weapon teams can be good to look at if you're playing something static like Cadia, they add up if you've got say a lascannon, autocannon or heavy bolter across 6 squads plus your three heavy weapon squads. I wouldn't give the Sergeant anything special unless you really have the spare points and nothing else to do with them. Maybe Catachan might like a power sword or something, if you're going for a melee infantry horde... But even then the chainsword is probably ok.

 

Like I said, it depends on what gaps you need to fill, but to me the Flamer is the cheap, decent option, and Plasma if you want to invest a little more, and a heavy team if you know they are going to sit still most of the game.

[librisrouge]

It partially depends on what you're wanting them to do and the army that they're part of. For example, a Mordian infantry squad should definitely put a bolter on the sergeant so that he can join in when you're trying to take out characters with their order. Similarly, that same squad should definitely take a plasmagun for the exact same reason.

 

Is your squad sitting back and shooting away? Plasmagun, for range. Maybe the sniper rifle.

Cadian, with reliable access to rerolls? Plasmagun, for safety.

Planning on being very mobile and in the enemy's face? Consider the flamer.

Enemy fielding a lot of vehicles and the squad is going forward? Melta, melta, melta.

Hate being competitive? Grenade launcher.

 

I'd avoid spending too many points on the sergeant unless you've got a plan to make it worth while. Are you a Catachan list, and planning to blob squads up and have Straken and a priest join them? Then snag some power weapons, by all means. Plasma pistol should only be gotten if you've got a specific way in mind to really have them contribute; otherwise, spend the points somewhere else.

[Commisar Necros]

Im currently using the grenade launcher and a missile launcher HW team and a naked sarge. They give a decent line, and were actually in the box. Going forward I would look at adding in more plasma to kill MEQ's. But The Woodsman hit it right on the head. Melta is hit or miss, I keep in SWS, Plasma is nice, grenades are meh, flamers are ok with the auto-hit. If they're going to be mobile rock flamers, stationary grenades or plasma depending on taste.

I keep the sarge bare bones. An infantryman isn't going to do bupkis in close combat, and giving him anything doesn't help. Fists wont hit and are still weak to a lot of things, PS wont be able to punch through most toughness stuff. Plasma pistols are OK, but IMO better to keep em cheaper than give em one of them. If you go Catachan and have a priest its a different story here, but your average schmuck doesn't have much of a shot. Guard have a wide armory so mess around with it if your groups ok with proxies try a few combos, but your guard squads cant do much alone no matter thier kit.

[Tallarn Commander]

As you can see, there are many different ways to outfit your infantry Squads.

For 21 years my special weapon of choice has been this guy, the plasma gun.

Plasma gunner Hashim and Sergeant Tariq, both with Blue Platoon

I use other special weapons for variety, but plasma guns have predominated. According to the fluff it's the preferred special weapon for the Tallarns.

I like to use a variety of heavy weapons. I usually give each of my 3 Platoons 3 squads and its accompanying command Squad the same heavy weapon. Since 8th this has meant:

1. The firebase platoon (usually Red Platoon) gets lascannons or missile launchers and is my backfield firebase Platoon

Red Platoon operating in the backfield alongside a Basilisk on the steppes of Lutum

2. The manuever platoon (Gold or Blue) Platoon gets missile launchers and moves into the middle of the board alongside sentinels and Hellhounds

Survivors of Blue 1 and Blue 2 tangle with the foul Death Guard

My manuever platoon usually dies, but their death allows the firebase platoon and patrol platoon time to secure objectives

3. The patrol platoon (Blue or Gold Platoon) gets heavy bolters. They used to get autocannons but now that heavy bolters are D2 my autocannons are in mothballs. The patrol platoon outflank alongside the Legends Rough Riders and the squad with the Tallarn dagger relic, the Dagger of Tu'sakh. The Patrol Platoon is often joined in the opponent's backfield by 1 to 3 squads of stormtroopers.

The remnants of an outflanking Blue Platoon squad operating alongside the remnants of a stormtrooper squad on Dalos IV

Note the Praetorian plasma gun trooper. Like many regiments, the Tallarn 23rd has absorbed troopers from other regiments into its ranks over the years

Outflanking Blue Platoon operating alongside sentinels

My sergeants just had laspistols and chainswords for 17 years. But when 7th Edition dropped the cost of plasma pistols from 10 to 5 points I gave all 9 of my line sergeants plasma pistols. It's a decision I don't regret because the extra firepower has often proved to be very useful.

Nine sergeants being re-equipped with plasma pistols

I suspect you too will determine what loadout works best for your tastes. Welcome to the Guard!


Tallarn 23rd, "We are many. They are few."

Edited June 9, 2021 by Tallarn Commander

[The Pounder]

Tallaran Commander, can I just say how impressive your collection is!

 

I’m just starting out on building my Krieg force, hopefully I’ll stay the course to gather such a collection.

 

I like the story and your insight into the army’s organisation and structure, well done!

[jarms48]

No upgrades on the sergeant 99% of the time. If Catachan or Custom Regiment with Lords Approval and Slum Fighters then maybe a power sword. 

 

For the squad itself, plasma gun or nothing.

[duz_]

From a model perspective you can build all the S special weapons so you have options and then fill in the gaps you've created with those models by using the easy to build kits that gives flexibility as things change

 

Similarly if you look through the barracks there's a couple of tutorials on how to build all the heavy weapon team options :tu:

[Shamansky]

If i have points to spend, I love taking boltguns for sarges and since the 'safe mode' was introduced i take plasmaguns just to bring up the threat lvl and don't let the enemy simply ignore my footsloggers. 

[duz_]

I really liked my grenade launchers last edition

[zero88]

I like Meltaguns. You can't count on them but a single lucky hit within 6" can be a massive swing

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Bolter on a sergeant is a pretty decent option.

Plasma can add some AT and anti-heavy infantry firepower to a squad.

Some people like the flamers for the auto hit, and with the higher range these days they're not a bad option.

 

Also if you want to lean into plasma, a plasma pistol on the sarge can give a squad some decent hitting power, but that gets expensive, and if only one squad is kitted out like that it will likely be targeted first.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[jarms48]

Bolter on a sergeant is a pretty decent option.

Plasma can add some AT and anti-heavy infantry firepower to a squad.

Some people like the flamers for the auto hit, and with the higher range these days they're not a bad option.

 

Also if you want to lean into plasma, a plasma pistol on the sarge can give a squad some decent hitting power, but that gets expensive, and if only one squad is kitted out like that it will likely be targeted first.

 

You shouldn't take plasma pistols on sergeants. It's the same cost as a plasma gun has half the range and half the shots. The main reason why plasma is simply the best option is because on a BS4+ Guardsmen you should reliably get at least 1 shot off.  

 

Plasma pistols on BS3+ and BS2+ models are better choices because it costs the same, whereas a BS3+ plasma gun is 10 points. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by jarms48

[Captain Antargo]

Greatly appreciate all the help!

[sairence]

Ultimately the answer to this very much comes down to what you want your infantry to do in your lists.

 

If you use them to grab objectives or to block the board you want to run them cheap and without upgrades.

 

If you run with only few officers vox casters can make sense, so that you can get most out of your limited orders.

 

If your infantry is meant to damage you want to tool them up as much as possible. Special weapons fit for their intended role (flamers for anti infantry, melta to deal with hard targets, plasma as good all-rounder), maybe some heavy weapons. Plasmapistols on regular Sergeants are probably a bit of waste but having an extra shot in close range can be helpful, especially when you already have a plasmagun. I'd rank lower than more actual special weapons though.

 

So...you need to think about their function in your army and that then determines their best loadout.

[Galron]

Been a guard player since the late 90s. Seen a lot of changes, some good, some bad. The doctrine system of 3rd and 4th was easily the best days of the guard followed by the newer version from PA which adds a few perks and bonuses we didn't have before.

 

Equipping your guard really depends on their purpose and role within the army. If you are running them as a troop tax then you will equip them differently than you would if you are spamming infantry. Given that we are limited now on troops since the removal of the platoon system of organization in 8th, you really have to have a reason for them being there.

 

Here are some examples from a couple of my armies

In my Armored Team force(Heavy armor and mechanized infantry) I tend to field 5 squads with simply a plasma gun. I could get away with just lasrifles but in an armored list those 25 points aren't going to buy anything substantial. Plus I cant count how many times having a plasma gun in the squads saved the day. One quick example was the last remaining guy in a squad point blank over charged and finished off a chaos knight in a Hail Mary play freeing up the rest of my force to target and kill another knight.

 

In my old Elysians, I really used basic troops as a tax since I had so many other units with the good special weapons. I would equip them with just grenade launchers or a flamer. I didn't expect them to do much and at the time grenade launchers and flamers were much cheaper than plasma or melta. I easily could have left them bare bones but whats the fun in that?

 

My Infantry Praetorian company. I have two battalion formations. One is my base of fire battalion and the other is my storm battalion. Since I have no vehicles in the army I have to maximize the numbers of heavy weapons. My base of fire force has a plasma gun and a lascannon in each squad. The purpose of the squad is to be ablative wounds for the lascannon. The plasma is because its cheap now and with movement being such a big deal on the smaller boards we have, something will be in range at some point.  The Storm Battalion is there for the close fight. Their job is to get onto objectives and hold them. To do this the squad has a flamer for some extra hits and the sgt has a power sword for the odd chance he might get some extra wounds in. It works in low point games, I haven't had the opportunity to give it a try in higher point games in 9th. To be honest, the entire purpose of this army is to have 200 dudes in bright red outfits and pith helmets looking awesome on the field. Provided someone doesn't list tailor it should do decent since aside from orks, you don't really see hordes this edition. 

 

I do miss the old days where you only had to tell your opponent what army you were bringing before actually setting up and not the actual lists. My favorite guard moment was a cocky army dude and his hot girl friend who came into the store back in 4th edition wanted to play a game. I accepted. He asked what I was playing and I told him guard. He smiled and said he was playing guard too. Then he started pulling out the old armored company list. I told him mine was all infantry and the store regulars started chuckling, they knew what was coming. Enter a drop army where every infantry squad carried a single melta gun, one troop choice was a platoon leader and two to five squads of infantry and 0-3 special weapon squads in the days where you scatter on deep strike instead of placing 9" away. I brought multiple platoons of straight infantry and special weapons teams mostly with melta and I didn't even list tailor. He quit after turn 2 not that he had much left. And that was the power of the lowly infantry squad.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

Bolter on a sergeant is a pretty decent option.

Plasma can add some AT and anti-heavy infantry firepower to a squad.

Some people like the flamers for the auto hit, and with the higher range these days they're not a bad option.

 

Also if you want to lean into plasma, a plasma pistol on the sarge can give a squad some decent hitting power, but that gets expensive, and if only one squad is kitted out like that it will likely be targeted first.

You shouldn't take plasma pistols on sergeants. It's the same cost as a plasma gun has half the range and half the shots. The main reason why plasma is simply the best option is because on a BS4+ Guardsmen you should reliably get at least 1 shot off.

 

Plasma pistols on BS3+ and BS2+ models are better choices because it costs the same, whereas a BS3+ plasma gun is 10 points.

simply noting it as an option. An expensive option, but not necessarily a bad option

[Excessus]

Hmm, interesting topic indeed. 

 

I've never really focused on my renegades properly in the last 10 years but now with 22/36 lasgun dudes painted I need to be thinking about this as well. 

 

So basically, flamers or plasmas seems like the more popular choices. Grenade launchers for flavour? *looks disappointedly at his two converted grenade launcher guys...*

 

What about heavy weapon squads? Are they always worth it, even with a humble Hbolter or something? What about lascannons/missile launchers?

[sairence]

If you have your guys stationary to move on an objective and then stay there I'd put in some heavy weapons. If you want them to run up the heavies aren't all that great as you take a -1 whenever you move.

[Excessus]

hmm, so IF I want to go with a squad that might be moving, I better go with weapons as Hbolters or MLs I guess. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

HWTs HBs over ACs for most targets.

MLs are cheap but not great.

Lascannons apparently have been pretty lackluster for their job, so maybe save the points and go with a ML for the flexibility?

Edited June 13, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[jarms48]

HWTs HBs over ACs for most targets.

MLs are cheap but not great.

Lascannons apparently have been pretty lackluster for their job, so maybe save the points and go with a ML for the flexibility?

 

If you're going to take a heavy weapon. It's heavy bolter or bust. The missile launcher and lascannon are both far too unreliable with 1 shot on a BS4+ model. They also don't do any meaningful damage these days either. Autocannons also lose out to heavy bolters against nearly every threat except T6, which it's still only marginally better. 

 

So all-in-all, from all of my advice in this thread:

- Squad moving up to secure mid-field a single plasma gun or nothing.

- Squad camping backfield a single heavy bolter or nothing. 

[Excessus]

What about the trusty old vox-casters? Any good?

[sairence]

What about the trusty old vox-casters? Any good?

Depends. I like bringing them because I don't usually bring loads of officers and the infantry components of my lists really only need move, move, move most of time. And for that it's important to be flexible in where I can apply my limited orders. Vox can help a lot with that.

 

If you run infantry heavy and want to do order as much as possible every turn you've probably loaded up on as many officers as you can. And that should mean you can spread them around your army to get coverage and Vox becomes a lot less important.

Edited June 16, 2021 by sairence

[jarms48]

What about the trusty old vox-casters? Any good?

Not really. Think of it this way. Every vox-caster could be an extra plasma gun. Every 2 vox-casters could be another heavy bolter. 5 vox-casters could be a platoon commander who would give you much more utility, that’s an extra aura of orders, redundancy if another officer dies, another model to perform objectives, etc.

 

Guard is an army of redundancy, the answer is often more. Not better.

Edited June 16, 2021 by jarms48