Advice on setting up a 'FreeHammer' free hobby trading group

[Beaky Brigade]

There is a lot of generosity in the hobby community, and I would like to harness this, and create a 'Freecycle' style group for Warhammer and other hobby products.

The hobby as sold by Games Workshop can be a shallow consumerist experience about buying the latest ProductTM.

If you dig a little deeper you'll find great people in your local or online community who will go the extra mile, whether that is running a local tournament, organising a motivational painting group, or digging into their bitz box to help someone with a conversion (among a multitude of positive things).

There are lots of trading groups on Facebook now days and genuine bargains can be be found. Sometimes a person will give something away for free or respond to a wanted ad to offer free bitz, but by and large people are selling things, often for the following reasons:

 

1. They want to clear out a backlog of un-built or unpainted models
2. They want to sell models to fund the purchase of new models
3. They need to raise money for boring IRL expenses

 

A piece of Warhammer is an expensive luxury item that holds it's value well, so it's understandable there is a thriving second hand market for it. It's rare you'll find any for free unless you are given a unwanted collection by a friend or relative.


But what if you can't be bothered to list your items on eBay or deal with haggling on a trading group? PayPal and postage will eat into your profits and you'll often wonder why you bothered in the first place with an item of smaller value.

If you haven't built up your painting discipline it's pretty likely that shiny new model you bought with the profits will itself be sold at a loss down the line!

Why not just give unwanted Warhammer away if you can afford to?

Well I'm sure people who are in the position to give Warhammer away have the following concerns:

A) Anything good will be snapped up by someone who flips it for a profit
B ) Anything good will be snapped up by someone who flips it for a profit
C) I don't know anyone who wants this niche item


That's where the FreeHammer concept comes in. It aims to create a moderated Facebook environment to encourage generosity, honesty and a re-use/recycle mentality that wouldn't be possible in a general trading group. To clarify to the mods here, I am not trying to setup a trading group here  as it is against the forum rules, I'm just seeking advice on setting it up elsewhere!

I have come up with the following theoretical rules to hopefully make the group work as well as it could, and I would love to hear thoughts from my fellow fraters on the concept and any problems I might not have foreseen:


The aims of FreeHammer:

1. To help experienced hobbyists reduce their backlog of unwanted models and hobby materials while 'paying forward' in the community
2. To encourage a spirit of generosity, giving and reusing
3. To allow hobbyists to obtain free models/paints/materials for their own army or Warhammer collection

Theoretical rules:

• No 'wanted' posts. To avoid people spamming the group asking for unrealistic items like free Warhound Titans. Only items people are giving away are listed, not what people might want.
   
• 'Givers' are encouraged to offer items on a first come first served basis but are not obligated to send items if the potential 'Receiver' is rude or they suspect they are a reseller, or they just don't like them.
   
• No reselling items for profit within 6 months of receiving them (more details below)
   
• Do not take more than (x) free items per week
   
• No professional traders or resellers
   
• 'Giver' pays postage or arranges tracked postage to avoid scams. Postage should be paid via PayPal if 'Receiver' pays.
   
• All items should be considered gifts so 'Receivers' are not entitled to any compensation or replacement models if the items get lost in the post. If you don't get them that is that, nothing lost nothing gained. Tracked or insured postage needs to be used if the 'Receiver' is covering that.
   
• Admins and moderators may only give away items, not receive them. The group is run for community benefit not Admin benefit.
   
• Usual FB group boiler plate stuff on conduct

So how to keep resellers and opportunists out? Obviously we'll ask nicely in the rules, but the main answer is moderation.


I've thought about this for a while and my best idea so far is that each time something is given away, the 'Giver' will message the Admin to confirm they have posted the item. They should also provide redacted details of the person they sent the items to.

My current idea is to use the UK postcode. So for example the current postcode for Games Workshop is: NG7 2WS

The admin would only be sent the last 3 letters: 2WS

This itself is not enough to identify someone's identity or location as these three characters are reused throughout the UK, but if they showed up in the records a lot in a short period of time it might indicate the person receiving the items is breaking the rules and merit further investigation. I would wager they would run out of addresses and PO boxes before they ran out of fake Facebook accounts! I would need to get some proper Data Protection advice on this however.



How to encourage someone to bother reporting their item has been sent?

Simple, every time you do this you get entered into a monthly prize draw, so it hopefully discourages abuse and encourages people to give more items away

 

 

So is this a pie in the sky dream, or do you think it can work? If you have any thoughts or experience of running FB groups it would be good to hear from you!


 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Beaky Brigade

[LameBeard]

I like the idea. I sometimes sell on eBay but it is a faff. I would be prepared to give away if it were really simple and easy - even easier than your suggestions above perhaps!

 

I tried freecycle for giving (non-GW) away but that was also a faff.

 

But I wonder is there something like free cycle where we could start a community with some automation rather than Facebook with the manual procedures you suggest?

 

There is stuff I would give away if I knew it was going to a good home - sometimes I’ve given to local kids just getting into the hobby, see if they like it. But the value of bits is in the eye of the beholder, so “I would like” posts do have some merit.

[Beaky Brigade]

I like the idea. I sometimes sell on eBay but it is a faff. I would be prepared to give away if it were really simple and easy - even easier than your suggestions above perhaps!

 

I tried freecycle for giving (non-GW) away but that was also a faff.

 

But I wonder is there something like free cycle where we could start a community with some automation rather than Facebook with the manual procedures you suggest?

 

There is stuff I would give away if I knew it was going to a good home - sometimes I’ve given to local kids just getting into the hobby, see if they like it. But the value of bits is in the eye of the beholder, so “I would like” posts do have some merit.

 

It is a good point that what you'll give away is dependant on the recipient to some extent. Better to give some old starter set marines to a child starting out in the hobby that someone who just wants to collect every space marine model ever made.

 

I guess the other way to do it would be to have 'Wanted' posts that explain what they want and also what they will use it for and it would be up to people who want to give away stuff to respond to the post if they think it's worthy.

 

Ideally there would be an automated element to it, I just don't have any technical experience to set that side up myself, hence the more analogue approach.

 

Another option to make it really easy for the Givers would just be an address you can send unwanted warhammer to and it's up to the people running it to distribute it like Santa, but I'm not sure how that would be run or funded. Maybe with this last option the items would be sold for a charitable cause instead of being redistributed.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Beaky Brigade

[LameBeard]

This is also a good idea. Bear with me on this one. There is a charity shop I know of that sells pet food. It does this because the guy who previously ran a pet shop on the site became the manager of the new charity shop - and he got the charity to agree to sell pet food so he could keep his old regulars happy with the just the basics.

 

Now you sometimes see GW stuff in charity shops but it’s hard for them to package/price if it’s not a book. What it needs is one Warhammer enthusiast who is also a charity shop manager to make their charity shop THE Warhammer charity shop. Everyone send their donations there - they package, price and sell. It would be both physical store and online if time. Kids will want to do their work experience there. It will be legendary. (Sorry this is rather UK-specific though).

[Beaky Brigade]

This is also a good idea. Bear with me on this one. There is a charity shop I know of that sells pet food. It does this because the guy who previously ran a pet shop on the site became the manager of the new charity shop - and he got the charity to agree to sell pet food so he could keep his old regulars happy with the just the basics.

 

Now you sometimes see GW stuff in charity shops but it’s hard for them to package/price if it’s not a book. What it needs is one Warhammer enthusiast who is also a charity shop manager to make their charity shop THE Warhammer charity shop. Everyone send their donations there - they package, price and sell. It would be both physical store and online if time. Kids will want to do their work experience there. It will be legendary. (Sorry this is rather UK-specific though).

Haha that does sound like an ideal job playing with sprues all day with no high pressure targets to make a huge profit. If I won the lottery I would definitely open a not for profit hobby store that opened only when I felt like it and was mainly a planning wangle to change an old shop front to residential use

 

I think a diorama or two would be more interesting than the antiques and charity shop fronts in the town centre...

 

 

I'm not sure about a setting up a physical charity shop to start with, but creating a one off sprue donation drive sounds like a promising starting point.

 

Get the community to donate sprues and they are sold by a volunteer on an eBay store using charity listings so there is confidence that all proceeds are going directly to charity. We could call it 'Sprue Hero' or something?

 

Everything could start on a really low bid so there is an opportunity to pick up a bargain, and if the bid goes up it will benefit the charity more.

 

In some ways it would tick a lot of boxes I wanted for the community group idea, and if I ran it would be easier as a one off or seasonal project than a 24/7 group requiring moderation.

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Beaky Brigade

[MARK0SIAN]

I’m not sure ebay would be a good idea. It seems to run counter to what you wanted in the original post. You said the objective was to allow hobbyists to obtain free models etc to add to their own collection. I think that’s a great idea but the people who would benefit most from that are the hobbyists on a tight budget. I.E. not the ones who can afford to go on eBay and bid for the models. Any decent stuff people donate would just be bought by regular hobbyists in the same way they’d buy from any other seller on eBay.

 

The charity itself would benefit but the type of hobbyists you want to help wouldn’t see any benefit and to them you’d be no different than any other eBay seller where they have to bid.

 

I think a moderated group stands more chance of achieving the aims you stated in the first post.

 

Good luck with it all whatever you decide, I think it’s a very admirable idea :)

[Domhnall]

I'd certainly be happy to see something like this. I've got a load of stuff I'd be happy to part with. I can't be bothered with selling online, and honestly will never get round to painting (much like the stuff I do want to keep, but I want to keep that). So giving them away works for me. 

 

Don't have facebook though, so would prefer not to involve my wife's facebook account 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Domhnall

[Beaky Brigade]

Thanks for the thoughts guys. I do agree @MARK0SIAN that a charity sales drive wouldn't achieve the same aims, though I think it would still be good to help people clear their backlogs (I've personally found it very cathartic to do this) and raise some money for charity. Maybe that could be something I do inside the group?



I've been thinking that the group is going to be a bit of an experiment and learning curve anyway so I shouldn't over think the rules too much until I see how things work out and how people behave, I wouldn't want to turn people off with red tape.


It's a great idea to give items to people starting out but I've realised adults giving 'gifts' to young strangers may be a bit of a safeguarding red flag, so I'll have to think about that aspect carefully, maybe make it for over 18's only but children can ask their parents to post for them? I hear that the 'Zoomer' generation thinks Facebook is uncool anyway . TBH at 18 I was old enough to take the hobby seriously but not earning enough to do much with it. I was trying to convert my own Pre Heresy space marines because of poverty rather than as a challenge :D


Over 18s only would also solve any issues if people want to give away unused spray paints/glue/sharp tools which are age restricted in the UK.


I think I've got a solution for avoiding wanted post spam. Have one periodical comment thread where people can post 'whishlist' items and there will be a small chance someone might see it and make it come true.

The rest of the the posts would be limited to what people are giving away.

I'm thinking also there could be a monthly raffle of a new mini or similar prize you can enter if you have made a confirmed 'gift' to someone else.

@Domhnall I do appreciate not everyone likes or uses Facebook, personally I exclusively use it for staying in touch with the local warhammer communities and don't have much personal on there.

I think there could be room to be on other platforms or have a website or email address. I'm not sure I could offer a trading functionality there but if you or like-minded people wanted to you could donate unwanted items to be used as prizes in the group or otherwise redistributed by the admin without participating directly


 

[MARK0SIAN]

You could allow “wanted” posts and try to stop spamming by having a setup for the wanted post that required some thought and effort. So the person would have to not only state what piece they wanted but why they wanted it/how it was going to be used, maybe with pictures of the rest of the force or the model with the missing piece. It’s not perfect but if the wanted posts require some time and effort people are less likely to spam them.

[firestorm40k]

I'm interested in seeing where this is going, as I've been considering doing something like this locally to where I live. In a nutshell, I'm helping to start a gaming group later this year, after being approached by a local youth worker. The group is aimed at young people (up to age 18), the youth worker I'd be doing this with is fully qualified and has all the relevant checks done (so it'd be covered from the safeguarding perspective).

 

Like others have commented, I have spare miniatures that I'd be happy to share, and I'd want to offer them as part of this group, where there are any youngsters interested in the hobby but without the means to get started.

 

I've spoken to the youth worker regarding this, we both agree that the difficulty is assessing who would genuinely meet that criteria (and not just looking for a freebie when they've already got their own miniatures, or even worse, the just plan to sell them on).

 

If we can overcome that challenge, I'd like to offer people the chance to get started in the hobby. If there were sufficient interest (e.g. when all my spares have found new homes :lol: ), I've considered extending an appeal to established hobbyists to also offer any of their spares to aspiring hobbyists. But first things first!

 

Anyway, I'll be following this with interest - it'd be good to see someone else get a warhammer swap/freebies page or site up and running :)

[Beaky Brigade]

I'm interested in seeing where this is going, as I've been considering doing something like this locally to where I live. In a nutshell, I'm helping to start a gaming group later this year, after being approached by a local youth worker. The group is aimed at young people (up to age 18), the youth worker I'd be doing this with is fully qualified and has all the relevant checks done (so it'd be covered from the safeguarding perspective).

 

Like others have commented, I have spare miniatures that I'd be happy to share, and I'd want to offer them as part of this group, where there are any youngsters interested in the hobby but without the means to get started.

 

I've spoken to the youth worker regarding this, we both agree that the difficulty is assessing who would genuinely meet that criteria (and not just looking for a freebie when they've already got their own miniatures, or even worse, the just plan to sell them on).

 

If we can overcome that challenge, I'd like to offer people the chance to get started in the hobby. If there were sufficient interest (e.g. when all my spares have found new homes ), I've considered extending an appeal to established hobbyists to also offer any of their spares to aspiring hobbyists. But first things first!

 

Anyway, I'll be following this with interest - it'd be good to see someone else get a warhammer swap/freebies page or site up and running

That sounds good Firestorm40k!

 

You are right it is difficult to assess the needs of someone for a hobby like this. I wonder if one of the options is making some of your models available as club items for people to try out but not own when they start out at the club.

 

Perhaps they could get a free model (unbuilt or otherwise) to own each time they attend which would reward people who are making an effort to be part of the club rather than fly by night freebie hunters.

 

I think the best way my FreeHammer concept could integrate with this idea would be to collect kits from members for a periodic donation to a club or organisation that is better placed to work with people starting out in the hobby.

[LameBeard]

I think don’t worry too much about judging ‘need’, but just start small. I reckon if you give someone an unpainted model and it comes back painted that’s enough to show they deserve more. Someone with funds will go buy the models they really want, someone struggling will stick with what’s going free.

 

And don’t even worry too much about resellers - they are providing a service to the community too, by photographing, listing and getting it to someone who will love it. We’ve already agreed it’s difficult to make a lot of money that way, otherwise we’d probably sell rather than donate.

 

You are right that safeguarding is the 1st priority and keeping internet toxicity out is second (in either of your business models).

[Beaky Brigade]

OK I've done it, a bit of a work in progress but join here if you are interested :)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/freehammer

Be patient if I take a while to approve you as I'm doing this very part time atm.

[The Yncarne]

I gave away two rather large space marine armies in the past year. Gave to a local FLGS that then used them a door prizes for store events. I got the satisfaction of knowing this would help the LGS and perhaps draw younger/new people into the game. If they were then resold or primed over I don't want to know!

 

I'd be interested in this concept, but I am very unlikely to join a social media platform for it.

[firestorm40k]

OK I've done it, a bit of a work in progress but join here if you are interested :)

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/freehammer

 

Be patient if I take a while to approve you as I'm doing this very part time atm.

Nice work, I've submitted a request to join! :)

[Beaky Brigade]

How to give away hobby stuff for free:

 

-To IRL friends with similar interests

- To suitably aged kids of IRL acquaintances (old enough not to eat the figures, young enough not to rather spend his time boozing)

-Leave in a box at the local hobby store like a litter of bolter-wielding kittens.

-"Hey, come over sunday afternoon. Bring a box"

 

How NOT to give away hobby stuff for free:

 

-Expecting they won't be re-sold if passed on online.

-Via mail, at your expense, even if initial only (parcel gets lost or recipient refuses to pay; you've lost money on trying to get rid of something you've already lost money on)

-Through a supposedly fair system with all kinds of rules; devious minds will find how to exploit it anyway.

-"Sure, I'll bubble wrap and pack them. Yeah, I'll drive to your place/ stand in line at the post office."

 

I appreciate your point of view. If you've got a good network of people to give away stuff to this group doesn't solve a problem you have.

 

I've found the hobby a more solitary experience. I've given things to a friend and family but they've not really used them as they are only fleetingly into the hobby. Much better to give to someone who actually wants it. I accept that a gift can't be given conditionally, the rule about reselling is more about to clarify the philosophy of the group.

 

I recently gave a Blood Bowl team away to someone in my local Blood Bowl players group. It wasn't a trading group but I asked if anyone wanted it, and I may end up facing the team if I get back into the game.

 

It worked on that occasion but it's not really an appropriate place to list my 40k stuff, which led to the idea for the group.

 

I appreciate that the rules are basically bunk and unenforceable, but they're useful to have if anything egregious needs to be banned.

 

I feel that your cynicism about postage etc doesn't really reflect my experience even with paid trading. People have sent me bits from Australia and the USA without any quibbling, but I get that it's not something everyone wants to deal with.

 

 

 

 

[Domhnall]

OK I've done it, a bit of a work in progress but join here if you are interested

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/freehammer

 

Be patient if I take a while to approve you as I'm doing this very part time atm.

 

What would be the best way to provide models? Likely it'll be a one time only (clear out), so would I give a list, and anybody that wanted them, you give me their address, or just pack it all up and send to yourself to do as you please? 

(because I'm petulantly not signing up to facebook  )

Edited June 16, 2021 by Domhnall

[Beaky Brigade]

 

What would be the best way to provide models? Likely it'll be a one time only (clear out), so would I give a list, and anybody that wanted them, you give me their address, or just pack it all up and send to yourself to do as you please? 

(because I'm petulantly not signing up to facebook  )

 

That's very kind of you Domhnall, I would be happy to be a central distribution point in these circumstances if it would be easier for you to box it up one time and send it to me. We have about 15 members as of this evening so it might take a while to go

 

DM me and we can discuss the details

Edited June 16, 2021 by Beaky Brigade

[Beaky Brigade]

Just a little update on how things have gone so far.

 

We have 55 members, mostly people related to the Facebook groups I'm already part of in the South East UK.

It looks like people have given away 5 items so far (including 1 thing I listed), and we have about a dozen items listed in total, including AoS, 40k, 3rd party stuff and leftover stones and grits offered by a stonemason!


The reality of running the group is a bit more slow moving than a fast paced world of scalpers, rule breakers and intrigue I had imagined when I started the thread.

The most controversial ruling has been whether advertising trades is allowed (I decided it's not because they are not truly free, but you can discuss trades or sales in DMs after giving something away).

 

I'm planning to prune back the rules because a lot of them aren't really needed at the moment.

I'm thinking how to grow the group to people outside the local hobby store bubble. It could end up growing to a larger size than I can cope with, but I would like a steady flow of items being listed and given away, so I'll think carefully what I can do. The group staying local could also be a good thing, as being able to trade items at a convenient local location may be more appealing to some people than posting.

Perhaps the answer is each local area setting up it's own FreeHammer collective instead of a centralised system.

 

I'm being given a friend of a friend's childhood/teenage 40k collection to distribute on the group as well as two members here kindly offering me items to list.


I wonder if a mod could advise on how I can continue to post updates here without falling foul of advertising or trading rules