My problem with power armour in the novels

[Plague _Lord]

So I'm currently reading Battle for the Abyss from the Horus Heresy series and there is this one scene when 2 friendly space marines get into a brawl. Nothing weird about that as in most instances involving space wolves there will be brawling, this time however there was one thing that perplexed me - one of the space marines hits the other in the solar plexus. Ok, nothing weird about trying to incapacitate your foe without dealing him actual harm.... wait a second... they are wearing power armour....Why would anyone actually attack the solar plexus of a power armoured opponent? I bet it's the party of the body that has the thickest armour plating. Besides the stupidity of the above scene I actually don't get the idea of brawling in power armour - it's like a space marine's most valuable piece of equipment and he's risking it being possibly chipped just for a pointless fight.

 

For me the above is just realism-breaking and makes me a bit weary of reading more. Do space marines really have to be in armour ALL THE TIME during peace time. I've come upon this problem throughout various books and I really don't get it (ofc geedubs has to sell models, so they are going to be in the armour as much as they can, it just doesn't make sense)

 

Anyway, does anyone else feel the same?

[Brother Tyler]

Is that a problem with the concept of power armour? Or is it a problem with authors not thinking things through?

[Plague _Lord]

Is that a problem with the concept of power armour? Or is it a problem with authors not thinking things through?

 

Ofc my problem isn't with the armour itself but with the handling of the subject by the authors. I find that BL authors have a big problem with space marines in non-combat situtations.

There is also the issue of helmets - marines can be protrayed throughout a scene as helmetless but when a splitsecond event happens, they suddenly have the helmet on.

 

Sorry for being ranty but I just think it's an issue that should be talked about.

[Scribe]

Very few books or authors actually consider the fact that Marines in PA, are essentially the volume of a small car.

[Closet Skeleton]

Brawling in armour makes perfect sense, it should be about grappling rather than punching though. You don't want to injure your ally. No one decides they'll risk getting hurt to preserve their equipment.

[Osteoclast]

For me the above is just realism-breaking and makes me a bit weary of reading more. Do space marines really have to be in armour ALL THE TIME during peace time. I've come upon this problem throughout various books and I really don't get it (ofc geedubs has to sell models, so they are going to be in the armour as much as they can, it just doesn't make sense)

 

Anyway, does anyone else feel the same?

You’re not the only one; it’s a bit weird that for what is supposed to be hallowed relics that can be thousands of years old, which require substantial maintenance effort by serfs, and which take a great deal of work to pull on and off, it’s treated as just essentially nothing more than some regular clothes in the novels. The unwritten bits of background on my custom chapter has them wearing Astra Militarum patterned uniforms for the most part precisely because they find that using armor as though it were clothing is disrespectful to its machine spirits.

[Lucien Eilam]

Battle for the Abyss isn’t very good, but it seems pretty clear the purpose of those blows isn’t to do damage. The whole fight, the Ultramarine is trying to dodge, trip and throw the Space Wolf, not hurt him. He’s essentially keeping his opponent off balance until he can grapple him to the ground:

 

 

 

He rained three quick, flat-handed strikes against Brynngar’s nose, ear and solar plexus. Staggered after the barrage, the Wolf Guard was unable to respond as Cestus drove forward and hooked both arms around his torso.

 

In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war. A Space Marine is a living weapon in a relentlessly hostile galaxy, who might be attacked, or be called upon to attack, at a moment’s notice. A Space Marine out of armour isn’t ready for war.

 

BL authors are aiming for pretty much non-stop action. Space Marines retiring to their arming chambers for an hour mid-scene while servitors and serfs bolt them into their armour is only going to happen if something relevant to the story will happen there. Complaining about this is like complaining that you never see Luke Skywalker use the lavatory.

[LameBeard]

Battle for the Abyss really should be skipped. They admitted themselves they tried cramming lots of things in because they had only just given up on "Horus Rising trilogy" but didn't yet have the go-ahead for a big series which would eventually meet all the legions in detail.

 

It makes no difference to the overall story arc. Loads of stuff happened for no good reason. That blow to the solar plexus is the least of the reader's worries.

 

One thing I like about the Heresy series is how often we do see Astartes not in armour. Often they are in tabards, and sparring or dueling in bodysuits. I think when we Loken meets the remembrancer he's practically naked.

[Ganders]

This is similar to one of my main issues with Black Library marine on marine action; the amount of neat decapitations.

 

In most novels of the type there's usually a cool moment where one head is lopped off. This always takes me out of the moment as I try to work out the logistics of cutting someone's head off wearing power armour.

 

I mean for it to work you'd have to cut through the top half of at least one shoulder pad, a gorget and parts of a power plant backpack. And this is never mentioned. I can't think of any position in power armour where the neck is exposed for a clean decapitation. The only weapon that would work would be a giant sharp spoon.

This goes X 100 for when terminators get their heads chopped off.

 

I get it's a cool moment and all but I find it narrative breaking.

[The Unseen]

This is similar to one of my main issues with Black Library marine on marine action; the amount of neat decapitations.

 

In most novels of the type there's usually a cool moment where one head is lopped off. This always takes me out of the moment as I try to work out the logistics of cutting someone's head off wearing power armour.

 

I mean for it to work you'd have to cut through the top half of at least one shoulder pad, a gorget and parts of a power plant backpack. And this is never mentioned. I can't think of any position in power armour where the neck is exposed for a clean decapitation. The only weapon that would work would be a giant sharp spoon.

This goes X 100 for when terminators get their heads chopped off.

 

I get it's a cool moment and all but I find it narrative breaking.

A decapitation doesn't have to be at the neck to be described narratively as such. If you skipped a powered blade across the top of the shoulder pads, just above the gorget, and everything above the marines nose was hacked off, it isn't a "clean" decapitation, but the marine is definitely super dead, and a significant chunk of the head would go flying off.

 

That or the "cutting" is actually a stab and twist, again with a powered weapon. You could probably stab into the neck and lever it off with a quick twist.

 

But yeah, Unarmed combat between marines is going to be all about grappling, trips, and using the weight of the 2 transhuman bodies wearing a small cars worth of armor against each other. Transhuman or not, if someone just as strong and heavy as you gets ahold of your arm and shoulder and pins you, you aren't gonna be doing much.

[Brother Lunkhead]

There are a lot of good non-power armor moments in Dan Abnett's Brothers of the Snake. You might want to check that out. As LameBeard points out, there are lots of moments in the HH where Astartes are not in PA, but they are moments. However, there are those PA vs flesh and bone moments that make me cringe.... like when a bare headed marine gets hit in the face with an armored fist. Glancing blow or not, enhanced physical structure or not, that's like getting hit in the face by a small car..... OUCH

[Bobss]

While Battle for the Abyss isn't exactly cream of the crop BL fiction, and is largely considered as such within the BL community, the hard-to-swallow pill here is that a big chunk of the BL stable struggle to do this wonderfully rich universe the justice it deserves in their books. This isn't a matter of the Abnettverse or the Haleyvengers, it's just basic stuff. How many times have torpedoes been stopped by a ship's void shields, for example? Or Guardsmen not being turned into the Nazis at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark when confronted by demons of Chaos? This stuff isn't as common as it once was, in my opinion, but it's still there. Nothing kills immersion quite like a naked World Eater punching through a banana's golden pyjamas

 

tl;dr cherish the authors who really do this IP justice, like Are Chris' Death Guard tending to raddishes on demon worlds or ADB's ''yeah, a big chunk of human slaves end up killing themselves/become prey to demons, in the Eye, but those who survive end up thriving in our ship's holds''

Edited June 19, 2021 by Bobss

[dice4thedicegod]

This is similar to one of my main issues with Black Library marine on marine action; the amount of neat decapitations.

 

In most novels of the type there's usually a cool moment where one head is lopped off. This always takes me out of the moment as I try to work out the logistics of cutting someone's head off wearing power armour.

 

I mean for it to work you'd have to cut through the top half of at least one shoulder pad, a gorget and parts of a power plant backpack. And this is never mentioned. I can't think of any position in power armour where the neck is exposed for a clean decapitation. The only weapon that would work would be a giant sharp spoon.

Great. Now I want to equip my heroes with power spoons. Preferably master crafted.

[Plague _Lord]

Battle for the Abyss isn’t very good, but it seems pretty clear the purpose of those blows isn’t to do damage. The whole fight, the Ultramarine is trying to dodge, trip and throw the Space Wolf, not hurt him. He’s essentially keeping his opponent off balance until he can grapple him to the ground:

 

 

 

He rained three quick, flat-handed strikes against Brynngar’s nose, ear and solar plexus. Staggered after the barrage, the Wolf Guard was unable to respond as Cestus drove forward and hooked both arms around his torso.

 

In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war. A Space Marine is a living weapon in a relentlessly hostile galaxy, who might be attacked, or be called upon to attack, at a moment’s notice. A Space Marine out of armour isn’t ready for war.

 

BL authors are aiming for pretty much non-stop action. Space Marines retiring to their arming chambers for an hour mid-scene while servitors and serfs bolt them into their armour is only going to happen if something relevant to the story will happen there. Complaining about this is like complaining that you never see Luke Skywalker use the lavatory.

 

Have to disagree here.

A) depends on the mark of the PA but almost all depictions I have seen have a heavily armoured midsection and chest so the solar plexus attack would honestly not have any sense.

B) Sure the order to attack can come at a moment's notice but it's a setting in which space travel takes months/days/hours to reach your destination, surely the space marine can get dressed on the way. Anyway, it just doesn't make sense for them to wear the armour all the time on a space station safe in imperial space.

C) That's the thing though - there are lot's of non-action scenes where the power armour just doesn't make sense and yet they are allways in it.

 

It's like an imperial army soldier probably won't take a tank to see his mate in another company, he'll take something lighter, easier to drive like a jeep or truck. Marines are suppossed to be pragmatic afterall.

 

I must say the first few HH novels didn't have this problem that is true.

[Preliminary Bombardment]

Is Battle for the Abyss the one with the line, "What's wrong? To real for you, ultramarine?" Delivered by a loyalist world eater? If so its definitely in the so bad it's good category in my book