Are these plastic models era appropriate?

[Valkyrion]

Predator, Whirlwind, Vindicator, Rhino

Indomitus Terminators

Mk VI armour with the twin jet jump packs

Space marine scouts

Ironclad dreadnought

 

If so, are some more suited to certain legions - thinking maybe the traitors wouldn't have much MKVI for instance.

[Calibanite Knight Angel]

As for the first vehicles:
-Yes, they are appropriate, as the Mars pattern (which the plastic models depict) did actually exist and were in use back then (the Forge World models simply depict the Deimos Pattern of the same vehicles. Basically, in-universe is a different build due to being manufactured on a different Forge World) . However, make sure to stay away from twin lascannons on the predator. Also, may be worth converting any storm bolters you take to twin bolters if you can be bothered doing extra extra work, but shouldn't make much of a difference if not.

-I can't remember if Indomitus Terminator armour was used extensively throughout the legions, but I know that at the very least it was used by the Imperial Fists Huscarls (Dorn's bodyguard). The Iron Hands Gorgon Terminators seem to be a modified pattern built off of Indomitus. However, if you use Indomitus, make sure you remove the Crux Terminatus from the shoulder. Also, the standard firearms of Terminators were twin bolters, not storm bolters, so as above, conversion work might end up being necessary.

-Not sure about Mk VI with the jump packs, but just so long as you are referring to the same type of jump pack as seen on Mark II, Mark IV, or Mark V assault squad models from FW, should be fine to use wherever you might find Mk VI.

-Space Marine Scouts are fine! However, they work a bit differently, as instead of being Neophytes, they are instead full Space Marines trained for recon missions called a reconnaissance Squad. These Space Marines have the option to ditch their standard power armour for scout armour, which is where the scout models would come in. However, I guess just make sure the weapons and other wargear options they are using are appropriate. Also worth noting that normally, although they are a Troops choice, they can't be taken to fill out a compulsory slot.

 

-Not sure about the Ironclad Dreadnought. I know the regular plastic box Dreadnought (the Mark V Castraferrum pattern) is era appropriate. I guess it depends what you'd equip it with, but I'd say the Ironclad is probably not likely to be era appropriate. That being said, its your hobby, so you do as you wish!

Hope that helped

Edited June 20, 2021 by Calibanite Knight Angel

[Lucien Eilam]

Short answer, yes. Very few innovations happened post-Heresy until the Primaris stuff – Mark VIII armour, the Predator Annihilator turret, and Razorbacks being the main examples of tech developed/rediscovered post-Heresy.

 

Some of the iconography won’t be exactly right. For example, the Crux Terminatus (Indomitus Terminators’ left shoulder) is generally considered a post-Heresy symbol. It’s said to contain a fragment of the Emperor’s own armour. Before the plastic Tartaros release, Forge World had two versions: 40k with Crux shoulder and Aquila plastron, 30k without. Easy enough to cut/file off though.

 

Mark VI is fairly widespread by the end of the Heresy, but at the start it was still at the prototype stage. According to Extermination, only the Raven Guard had been issued any officially, still in testing, with the Alpha Legion having their own spin-off from stolen prototypes. There’s a colour plate that states feedback from Raven Guard survivors of Isstvan V was included in the final version before it went into production.

 

Later books have backed off from this a bit probably because, logically, if that were true, and it’s only finalised and enters production on Mars after Isstvan V, some Legions couldn’t have any at all – notably the three Imperium Secundus Legions. One of the later black books has the Night Lords being issued with enough to equip 4-5 Chapters before the Heresy, and I expect that timeline will be fully ignored or retconned to justify selling plastics to everyone.

 

There are no rules for the Ironclad Hurricane bolter arm, but everything else in the kit is fine – 30k Castraferrum Dreads can have a pair of hunter-killers and the seismic hammer could be run with the 30k rules for the Siege Wrecker arm.

[Valkyrion]

Thanks guys. 

What about 'unwritten rules'. Like, would it be considered against the spirit of the setting to use Chaos models with all their trims and spikes and stuff if you were making a traitor legion?

Should I file the aquila off my rhinos? Deathwing terminators with their broken sword icon? Stuff like that. 

 

If I'm going to do it, which I am, then I want to do it as right as i can without having to sell my current predator only to buy a £60 version instead!

[Corswain]

If you are using Chaos Space Marine models you could always say it's a Siege of Tera themed army - most of them were pretty spikey by then.

Night Lords were pretty nasty looking before the Heresy and I certainly wouldn't bat an eyelid at playing a Siege game against 40K Thousand Sons or Death Guard.

 

I guess it all depends on the group you are playing in though. I can definitely understand both sides of the argument.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Corswain

[Lucien Eilam]

Supposedly the Aquila gradually came into unofficial use to distinguish Loyalists through the Heresy, becoming official when Mark VII was developed on Terra in the run-up to the Siege and issued to the Loyalist defenders. It wasn’t really used by the Legions much during the Great Crusade (except by the Emperor’s Children, who were rewarded with use of their own Palatine Aquila version based on the Emperor’s personal symbol). There’s a colour plate of a Loyalist Death Guard at Isstvan III who had hand-carved it into his chest plate, for example, so you can certainly justify it even for the early Heresy.

 

So, depends on the era you’re going for really, but filing it off would definitely say 30k more than 40k.

 

Full-on Chaos gribbliness wasn’t really widespread until close to the Siege, although the Word Bearers were leading the way from the start. For example, in the novels, there are Sons of Horus characters surprised and disgusted at what’s become of the 4 fully power-aligned and corrupted Legions. If you remove the worst excesses though, the trim ends up looking like just ornate power armour, so they can work as a basis, and there’s no reason you couldn’t have a force from any Legion that went all in from day one. The Legions were large and diverse. There are Plague Marines in Flight of the Eisenstein, long before Mortarion pledged the Legion to Nurgle, and time is meaningless in the Warp.

 

The original Deathwing icon was crossed swords. If you’re playing Dark Angels, you’re going to want a copy of Crusade – 30k DA iconography and organisation is massively complicated.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Lucien Eilam

[Hfran Morkai]

A thing to note about Indomitus armour is that rules wise there isn't any reason to take it as you can choose Tartaros or Cataphractii with no additional cost and they have additional rules.

 

I've most definitely got 10 sets of Indomitus in my pile for the Heresy, for a bit more variety and because I find them cool (my favourite is Tartaros though).

[sarabando]

The aquilla was an hobourific that was assigned for great deeds the reason the EC wore.it was because they got it legion wide.like a unit citation. The loyalist symbol is the winged skull. Mk6 armour was issued to the white scars at chondax which is pre heresy, so it's up for grabs from day 1. As others have said mars vehicles and indomni termies are fine my IF are an army of 40k kits in 30k

[LameBeard]

So on that basis scouts are going to look ‘loyalist’ with that chest winged skull. Also, the heavy bolter or missile launcher is not ‘game legal’ for a recon squad, if I recall correctly, or even the sniper/shotgun for the sergeant.

 

Assault cannons on the terminators are also restricted, just Blood Angels and Imperial Fists in my book, maybe this got opened up later? No assault cannon option on the legion dreadnought either.

Edited June 20, 2021 by LameBeard

[Lucien Eilam]

No heavy weapons on Recon Squads. I can see how it could be interpreted that way, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone argue against the Sergeant having a sniper rifle or shotgun (probably no one cares enough, they’re not exactly the power gamer choice). The FW power armour kit doesn’t include any other options.

 

Assault cannons are BA/IF only (except for the Contemptor Kheres-pattern). BA have much wider access, IF only for Terminators, I think. Storm Shields are IF/Salamanders only.

 

Terminator options are closer to 40k Chaos Terminators: heavy flamer, Reaper autocannon, plasma blaster for special weapons, combi-weapons/volkite chargers for the rest of the squad, and models start with a power weapon rather than a power fist, but every model can be upgraded to any of the standard Terminator CC weapons.

 

If you’re still deciding on which Legion, Imperial Fists might be the best choice for using a lot of 40k stuff: Loyalists with access to assault cannons and storm shields, known to favour Indomitus armour, and among the first to be issued with Mark VII power armour. Most of that goes for Blood Angels too – more assault cannons, but no storm shields.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Lucien Eilam

[jeremy1391]

Yes those are all acceptable

[Doghouse]

No idea if it has been retconned but the original entry of service dates for the plastic tanks were:

 

Rhino MkIIc - M31/99.12.01/017

 

Predator Mk IVb - M31/99.12.0101/016 

 

Land Raider Mk III - M31/99.12.0101/010

 

If this is still true then they came in about 85 years after the Heresy as far as I know, that is very old lore though. 

[Brother Sutek]

Sadly the Land Raider Crusader is also a no go,I own two and now wish I had used magnets! As far as I know only Iron Warriors can have cyclone missile on their terminators.

[Lucien Eilam]

As far as I know only Iron Warriors can have cyclone missile on their terminators.

 

Iron Warriors and Ultramarines.

 

…and Alpha Legion, of course.

 

 

 

No idea if it has been retconned

 

Whether it’s a retcon or not, I don’t think the current intention is really anything like as simple as Mark I=Deimos, Mark II=Mars, etc., and hasn’t been for a long time. The relationship between patterns, marks and configurations is more complicated than that. That “b” and “c” certainly imply the existence of earlier revisions of Mark II and Mark IV, at least.

 

War Machines of the Adeptus Astartes had technical sheets indicating known patterns include Mark I Mars-pattern Predators, Mark I Phobos-pattern Land Raiders, Mark X Land Raiders Proteus, etc.

 

It’s more like pattern=origin of that particular style of construction, mark=generation, and just because specific models that have been released represented a specific combination of those, it doesn’t mean that others didn’t exist, further combined with the designation for armament configuration.

 

Regardless, the comparison of Deimos and Mars pattern Rhinos is from the colour plates in the Iron Warriors of section of Extermination, so they’re well-established by now.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Lucien Eilam