Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 I mean, it makes total sense from a fluff perspective based on how the emperor/sanguinius won't let him die. Maybe a toned down version compared to gulliman's? On a 5+ instead of 4+? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Dante, like many of our characters needs a bit of an overhaul, I'd hope that if he goes through the rubicon he'd get it, but honestly I think we'll get a hyper lazy mephiston treatment again pandion40 and Helias_Tancred 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/#findComment-5713130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Dante is the one character that I feel has been more hard done by in terms of fluff-to-board conversion than any of our other Characters. And its been consistent since 4th ed, from when he gave that delicious 12" reroll all hit bubble. I don't need him to be broken, but damnit can we just have something truly representative of one of the oldest, greatest living space marine heroes already.... pandion40, BLACK BLΠFLY and Helias_Tancred 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/#findComment-5713133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 The latest MFM means that we pay a decent price for what he brings to the table but he is still pretty underwhelming compared to his fluff description. Helias_Tancred 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/#findComment-5713136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 I still think the biggest problem with his fluff/tt translation is so much of what he is in the fluff is entirely down to the player in the game. How can you adequately represent the ability to fight someone to a standstill who can control time itself while still leaving things to the players? Maybe he should have the ability for a unit that has done nothing in your turn to interrupt in the opponents turn at any point and take their full action/turn sequence (move/shoot/charge/whatever)? That would be overpowered, of course, but thats sort of the problem with his abilities, to make TT equal fluff you would have to be looking at things like that. Arguably a 3++ fnp might be the best mechanism to represent his raw endurance - no matter what hits him, he still stands - Tancred could learn about endurance from him - but in a BA army you would have people wondering why he has super FNP but not be in the Death Company. I suspect a 2++ would be too close to the fateweaver/screamerstar units of previous edition which are too raw in the mind at the moment though. -1 to hit, no overwatch on him when he charges (representing the mask), reroll charges (Chapter master will have a very reliable jump pack), built in strike after death, maybe a redeploy 3 or d3 units after deployment but before turn 1 starts (when you know who goes first) - thats something that has never been associated with him as far as i recall but would actually be a nod to his strategic ability for once. Helias_Tancred 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/#findComment-5713157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 The latest MFM means that we pay a decent price for what he brings to the table but he is still pretty underwhelming compared to his fluff description. MFM?? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/#findComment-5713175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dice4thedicegod Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 The latest MFM means that we pay a decent price for what he brings to the table but he is still pretty underwhelming compared to his fluff description.MFM?? Manufacturum field manual? And yeah, Dante and Mephiston both suffer from rules that make them marine+ when the fluff makes them sound at least marine+++ Helias_Tancred and Karhedron 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/#findComment-5713179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 I still think the biggest problem with his fluff/tt translation is so much of what he is in the fluff is entirely down to the player in the game. How can you adequately represent the ability to fight someone to a standstill who can control time itself while still leaving things to the players? Maybe he should have the ability for a unit that has done nothing in your turn to interrupt in the opponents turn at any point and take their full action/turn sequence (move/shoot/charge/whatever)? That would be overpowered, of course, but thats sort of the problem with his abilities, to make TT equal fluff you would have to be looking at things like that. Arguably a 3++ fnp might be the best mechanism to represent his raw endurance - no matter what hits him, he still stands - Tancred could learn about endurance from him - but in a BA army you would have people wondering why he has super FNP but not be in the Death Company. I suspect a 2++ would be too close to the fateweaver/screamerstar units of previous edition which are too raw in the mind at the moment though. -1 to hit, no overwatch on him when he charges (representing the mask), reroll charges (Chapter master will have a very reliable jump pack), built in strike after death, maybe a redeploy 3 or d3 units after deployment but before turn 1 starts (when you know who goes first) - thats something that has never been associated with him as far as i recall but would actually be a nod to his strategic ability for once. a 1:1 translation would make marines OP in general, so I'm not asking for that, but he seems extremely underwhelming for the oldest non-intered space marine leading one of the most famous chapters, let alone for his new role as regent if imperium nihilus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/#findComment-5713226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 I still maintain that Dante should be an above average fighter (not the best) but just have massive tactical/coordination abilities. Which is why I think having him being something like that Katakros guy from AoS just sounds a lot like what we need: Lots of leader abilities that degrade and when he's by himself he turns into a beat-stick but maybe not the best one in the whole game. Inquisitor_Lensoven 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/#findComment-5713237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Even just giving him the old CM ability (full reroll bubble) in addition to the regular one would be kinda neat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/#findComment-5713321 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) Even just giving him the old CM ability (full reroll bubble) in addition to the regular one would be kinda neat.i think armor of fate, mixed full reroll bubble would make him suitably beastly for who/what he's supposed to be. Maybe an extra point of damage or AP for the Axe? Edited June 21, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/#findComment-5713333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 My biggest gripe with him is that he famed tactical prowess is in no-way represented. His extra CP is nigh-on useless -because most of the best BA lists use other characters, with better combos and options. This means that the CP you get is essentially used on extra WLTs for other units. Calgar and Azrael both get 2 - this really should be his minimum. To differentiate him, I think he should get something similar to Morty's power - basically a pick of a pool of existing WLTs at the start of the battle. BLACK BLΠFLY, Helias_Tancred and pandion40 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/#findComment-5713361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 I want him to cross the Rubicon . Helias_Tancred 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/#findComment-5713393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhavien Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 I agree with Morticon. 2 extra CP would be adequate as calgar and azrael both get them. If he would also get a second WLT frome the BA list for free I would be sold. This way his strategic and tactical prowess would be adequately displayed in my opinion. While the axe mortalis isn't the most devastating cc weapon I think it's still okay. Helias_Tancred 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/#findComment-5713413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantesRevenge Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 Agree with the above, they could even probably add the 10pts back on if he gave 2 command points and could take an additional warlord trait. I definitely think you would start seeing him used more. Morticon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/#findComment-5713474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy1391 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 I would give his inferno pistol 12” range, add a point of damage to his axe which does mortal wounds on 6’s, give him 4+ get back up with D3 wounds, reduce AP of attacks against him by 1, give him old CM rerolls that would really make him represented in the game as he is in the fluff Helias_Tancred 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/#findComment-5713767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 I would give his inferno pistol 12” range, add a point of damage to his axe which does mortal wounds on 6’s, give him 4+ get back up with D3 wounds, reduce AP of attacks against him by 1, give him old CM rerolls that would really make him represented in the game as he is in the fluff it used to be called "The perdition pistol" and was indeed a melta gun with the pistol rule instead of assault rule. It was a relic Paladin777 and Helias_Tancred 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/#findComment-5713777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhavien Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Maybe expand his epic hero ability and let him fight if he dies even when he's already fought this turn. Just like it was in 8th. Would suit the whole tragic hero theme. Helias_Tancred 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/#findComment-5713907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dice4thedicegod Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Maybe it would be a better fit for his inspiring presence if he also let another model within 6” do a free epic deed? Inspire those blood angels! Inquisitor_Lensoven 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/#findComment-5713924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 -1 to hit, no overwatch on him when he charges (representing the mask), reroll charges (Chapter master will have a very reliable jump pack), built in strike after death, maybe a redeploy 3 or d3 units after deployment but before turn 1 starts (when you know who goes first) - thats something that has never been associated with him as far as i recall but would actually be a nod to his strategic ability for once. I thought the +1 command point, given his tactical and strategic acumen in the lore, was very weaksauce. I'd say +2 at least. Morticon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370769-should-dante-have-armor-of-fate/#findComment-5720145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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