Consolidation and saving throw bonuses

[Arbiter7]

Hi,

 

9th noob here.  Two questions:

 

 

a) If the enemy is destroyed at the end of a round of combat, does the winning side still get to consolidate? 

 

b) A natural 1 being a failure notwithstanding, can one have a better than 1+ save for the purposes of calculating their save under AP weapons? E.g. Artificier armour in light cover does that count as 0+ for the purposes of working out saves due to AP ? 

 

Thanks

[Rogue]

A unit that has fought can consolidate. There's nothing in the rules about any enemy models still needing to be alive to allow this, so you can kill everyone and consolidate.

 

However, say you have a unit of marines still locked in combat with some orks who charged in your opponent's turn. No other enemy units are nearby. In your turn, you charge into the combat with a fresh unit of terminators, and wipe out the orks. The charging unit of terminators may now consolidate, but the original unit of marines can't - this is because the marines can't be activated, as they are not within engagement range of any orks, and didn't charge this turn. And because they can't be activated, they can't consolidate. 

 

 

I'm less sure on the second question, but I think the answer there is Yes. If it helps, imagine it the other way, and apply the AP first - your 2+ drops to a 5+ (for example), and then you apply the +1 for light cover to get back to 4+. It all works out the same in the end.

[Arbiter7]

A unit that has fought can consolidate. There's nothing in the rules about any enemy models still needing to be alive to allow this, so you can kill everyone and consolidate.

 

However, say you have a unit of marines still locked in combat with some orks who charged in your opponent's turn. No other enemy units are nearby. In your turn, you charge into the combat with a fresh unit of terminators, and wipe out the orks. The charging unit of terminators may now consolidate, but the original unit of marines can't - this is because the marines can't be activated, as they are not within engagement range of any orks, and didn't charge this turn. And because they can't be activated, they can't consolidate. 

 

 

I'm less sure on the second question, but I think the answer there is Yes. If it helps, imagine it the other way, and apply the AP first - your 2+ drops to a 5+ (for example), and then you apply the +1 for light cover to get back to 4+. It all works out the same in the end.

 

 

Right. So would the terminators still have to consolidate toward the nearest enemy unit ? Is it mandatory ? E.g. what if it brings them in range of guns you want to avoid ?

[Kallas]

 

Right. So would the terminators still have to consolidate toward the nearest enemy unit ? Is it mandatory ? E.g. what if it brings them in range of guns you want to avoid ?

 

Yes, they would have to end their consolidation move closer to the nearest enemy model (bear in mind that all consolidation and pile in moves are done on a model-by-model basis - so one Terminator might have a different 'nearest enemy model' than another)

 

Mandatory? No, you can choose to not move. Also worth noting that consolidation's 'must end closer' doesn't require you to go straight towards the nearest enemy - you can measure your distance, and then move in such a way that your model is now 0.1" closer to the enemy model, satisfying the requirement.

[Rogue]

You don't have to move.

 

Also, a consolidate move has to end nearer to the closest enemy, but that doesn't mean you have to move in a direct line towards them. Where the terrain allows, you can use the consolidation to take cover, as long as you end up closer to the enemy at the same time.

 

(Got a bit ninja'd there.)

Edited June 21, 2021 by Rogue

[Dr_Ruminahui]

In regard to the armour save question, the rules make clear that a roll of 1 always fails (under MAKING ATTACKS, 4. Saving Throw, on page 71 of the Mission Pack , page 221 of the hardback rules).  The rules are silent as far as I can tell about whether it can be modified below 2+, which to me means that it can - where a characteristic cannot be modified below 1, such as S, T, A and Ld. the rules explicitly state so (see the box MODIFYING CHARACTERISTICS on page 63 of the Mission Pack, page 203 of the hardback rules).

Edited June 28, 2021 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Arbiter7]

Thank you - one more question -

 

can you consolidate within engagement range of another enemy? to tie them up? 

 

Say you wipe a unit and there is another directly behind it - can you consolidate into the new unit ?

[Rogue]

Yes. But bear in mind that this would allow the unit you consolidate into to fight against you (because they're now within engagement range, which makes them eligible to fight).

 

So you can tie something up, but only if you survive long enough.

[Arbiter7]

Yes. But bear in mind that this would allow the unit you consolidate into to fight against you (because they're now within engagement range, which makes them eligible to fight).

 

So you can tie something up, but only if you survive long enough.

fab. and they would fight first in their turn ? who would fight first the following turn?

[Dr_Ruminahui]

They would fight using the rules for determining the order in which units fight - note, the next round of melee they would no longer count as charging.