New player first army

[BrandX]

Hello new friends. It came down to battle sisters and tyranids. But battle sisters are the army I will be collecting from here on out. It helps that a local store has the starter box for one but not the other. So with that box I will begin my army come Saturday when I am able to get to the store. I played mostly warmachine and the starter boxes came with everything needed for a zero points game. Is this true for warhammer or do I need to get more to start playing? I’m planing to assemble the box Saturday and play my first game Sunday. Maybe just a tutorial game.

[Purifying Tempest]

Which box were you able to get ahold of?  "Piety and Pain" or the older Collector's Box?  I don't believe we have the Combat Patrol box, yet.

 

Generally speaking, those boxes may get you in the door for the smallest of games (500ish points), but a bulk of the games will likely take place in the 1000 to 2000 points levels... and the more competitive you want to play, the closer to that 2000 points line is where you'll find your games.

 

But...

 

1st: Welcome to the hobby of 40K, and welcome to the Adepta Sororitas!

 

2nd: I hope your local community is warm and inviting, as they normally are.  That alleviates a lot of the "new player" blues as you build and prepare your army, and even expand your forces for play.

 

In pursuit of that, maybe there's an Escalation League or Crusade Campaign you could get involved with.  Those normally start at a lower points level and raise those levels over time to be more inviting for new players, or players fielding a new army.  They also frequently encourage painting and hobbying outside of the simple assembly and fielding of your army.

 

Some generic pointers that may help you starting out: try to find some boxes of basic Battle Sisters.  They can be built into Dominions, Battle Sister Squads, or Celestians.  There's 10 in a box.  And you'll get plenty of mileage out of those models.  A basic Rhino isn't bad either, and if you got "Piety and Pain" you'll probably want to pick up a solo Canoness kit.

 

To get deeper than that, however, it'd be helpful to know which boxes you've already purchased, and which Order/play style you plan on engaging, as that can wildly change your model and kit selection!

 

Best of luck, and welcome :)

[BrandX]

It just says army set on it. But it comes with a rules book. I think it was a white box. I’ve got a practice game lined up and my opponent is going to wait me through the rules. They’re pretty friendly. I was leaning towards getting up close and personal. My army in my last hobby game was also melee. It used a lot of support to do things like move faster or hit harder. It would kill what it needed to and push the rest out of the way. I’ve been told on this site that warhammer doesn’t do any kind of pushing or pulling your opponents units but you have distraction squads instead. I haven’t painted tanks before either so that will be fun. I read an article on goonhammer about sisters but it seemed to be written for people who already know the lineup. A lot of things it would say got worse so I’m trying to not pay attention to it because I don’t want to start off with a biased opinion based on what was.

Oh and thank you for welcoming me into your group.

[BrandX]

One more thing. Sorry I’m not very good with people. I’ve been told that there are optional weapon upgrades. My last game didn’t really do that. It only had character attachments for squads. So about 90 percent of what you put in your list came standard with no upgrades. Is it absolutely positively without a doubt necessary to take upgrades?

[BrandX]

One more thing. Sorry. What box has powerfist? Everyone is always talking about powerfist and cracking jokes. I hear it every time I’m there.

[Purifying Tempest]

Power fists are more of a Space Marine thing, basically Thanos Gauntlets for the big boys.  Sororitas don't get Power fists, and the closest thing we have is a decently awkward modeling on the Dogmata's left hand that makes her fist look unusually large (though there is no stat bonus for said fist).

 

It sounds like you got ahold of the Collector's Edition box, which is a pretty fine place to start.  It is what the Combat Patrol box is likely going to be, minus a Rhino.  Unfortunately, the rule book in that box is for the prior edition, and was just replaced this month with the new 9th edition Codex.

 

Here's a link for the new one, though I wouldn't worry about this immediately... the 8th and 9th books are similar enough that you can play out of the 8th... but your opponents may request you know and play by the 9th rules after you get your feet wet and comfortable.  Definitely focus on feeling out the game and the army, then probably look at updating your rules book: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Codex-Adepta-Sororitas-EN-2021

 

Now for upgrades.  First of all, upgrades are normally different kit options in the box that you can build.  So you don't have to buy a box of battle sisters, and then buy another sprue to change out their boltguns with meltaguns... that'll all be in that battle sister box.  There's a few outliers to this, but generally speaking the units having their valid building options are contained within the single box you purchase.  Only 2 multi-meltas come in the Retributor box, even though the squad can take 4 is about the only outlier to that statement that I know of... and trust me, there's some factions that will scream foul at that.  Like Chaos Havocs only get 1 of a weapon upgrade that you'd likely want to take 4 of in a squad, thus have to buy 4 boxes to get those weapons... or... go elsewhere to find replacement parts.

 

The box you got is all standard, there's no special options to consider when building.  But as you add new kits to your army, you'll have to decide what weapon this model will take to battle to build that model (or get fancy and find ways to magnetize frequently swapped weapon options).  And these upgrades are... well... pretty much required.  There's a radical difference in a model with a boltgun vs one with a meltagun, and options like the meltagun are restricted to a limited number per unit.  I think the box you got, though, will kit you up a couple of storm bolters (which just got REALLY good) and flamers (which aren't bad either).  But you'll definitely want to invest in other options once you start expanding your collection so that you can better engage things like tanks or big blocks of infantry with your army.

 

I'm going to shamelessly plug an old post I made that got put into the pinned resources thread when the battle sister box first got released that goes over the different options that come in that box.  I made it to help people plan what to do with those models and what options existed within the kit: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=361350

 

So overall, the Sororitas does "up close and personal" pretty well as a faction.  The one weakness of the faction tends to be our lack of long range punch.  Most of our weapons really highlight that.  If you're looking for speed mixed with firepower, you're going to like Argent Shroud (as they can effectively run-and-gun at will).  If you want to get a bit closer and a bit more personal, however, I'd steer you towards the Bloody Rose (who tend to do most of their damage in hugging range).

 

Dominions are our close-ranged specialists.  They tend to favor the 12" and closer range, so long as they're not in a melee fight.  They have rules to start out a bit up the field before the game starts, and their weapons really start hurting within 12".  Mix them with Argent Shroud, and you're getting there early in the game... though that does kind of isolate them and make them more likely to get removed by your opponent in reprisal.  Especially if they just whacked something your opponent really liked.  Getting spite killed is a Dominion specialty.

 

Bloody Rose, however, more favors the melee aspect and will like models like Zephyrim, Repentia, and the new Celestian Sacrosants.  Remember that new 9th edition book I linked earlier?  Now's when it comes in handy.  It added about a half dozen new units to our arsenal, many of which fill different combat roles than we previously didn't have available.  But these units tend to fling themselves at your opponent as quickly as possible to get out of the fire fight and into the fist fight.  And there's lots of tricks the Sororitas can perform to make getting there more likely, and at times even trivial.

 

I'm honestly not sure what kind of trouble I'd get in for plugging 3rd party apps on this site, but there is a readily available app that can get you 90% of the rules for your games and assist you in building army lists and planning your models for the future.  It is called Battle Scribe, and if that needs to be edited out by a mod, please strike it... I won't be upset at all

 

And while it helps build an army, it is not a replacement for your Codex.  It only gets you about 90% of the way there... and honestly, if you really like the game, it only helps everyone out when you support the creators.  But until recently, there was nothing that compared to the aid that Battle Scribe provided... and even now, I still think the Warhammer Army Builder app is lagging, though probably catching up.

 

I'll let you absorb all of this for now   Though feel free to ask any other questions.  Someone is bound to answer it!

Edited June 28, 2021 by Purifying Tempest

[BrandX]

I have more questions. but before I think of them what is the difference between the battle sisters box and the celestians/dominions box? The second one mentions that it can build the first.

[SkimaskMohawk]

They're all the same box. You get a lot of stuff in the basic box; 4 of each special weapon, heavy flamer, heavy bolter, 2 simulacra, 10 heads for celestians, almost every wargear option for the superior.

[Purifying Tempest]

As Skimask said, the basic box of Sisters of Battle (it may be listed as Celestians and/or Dominions on the webstore, but rest assured, they're all the same box) is a very diverse box and will provide you with just about any basic infantry model you need for the army, so it is normally a pretty high return on your investment.  If you're wanting to play an entirely specialist army consisting of things like Seraphim/Zephyrim or Paragon Warsuits or Sacresants... well, they have their own boxes and are not nearly as flexible for starting out.  Also, the basic box yields the ability to build 10 models, where as the specialist boxes normally cost about the same, but only yield 5.

 

Kinda important when you're trying to build an army on a budget.  Saves some $$ to get the units you really want.  Especially when you deploy tricks like building Heavy Flamer or Heavy Bolter models from the basic box to build Retributors with those weapons.  It gets a bit fidgety, but I've turned a single box of Battle Sisters into 2 Superiors, 2 Retributors, 2 Simulacrums, and then the other 4 were probably Storm Bolters or Meltaguns that I needed to stock at the time.

 

Reflecting back, I think my first big purchase into Sisters of Battle (well, the plastic line) was 2-3 boxes of battle sisters and 2 boxes of Retributors.  Got me a solid start with building Dominions, Retributors, and Battle Sisters squads for the table.

[Joukernaut]

There's some great advice in this thread. I myself started with the limited edition starter box set and soon after managed to nab a second one from a friend who abandoned the army. I proceeded to build all the models in the boxes, only to find out it builds a very bland army without the true punch of the army. Only after getting a deal on another three Arco flagellants and another three sisters repentia, a box of penitent engines and 2 battle sister boxes for the special weapons did it start to feel like an army with a bit of a punch. Then after treating myself to two boxes of piety and pain for Retributors and immolators I am at a point where I can build diverse lists that can put up a fight vs most opponents.

I was lucky to receive old metal models from a different friend as well to give me a great deal of diversity.

If I had two do it all over again I would approach building the army differently. I think purifying tempest's advice is solid and puts you in a good spot. The limited edition puts you in an awkward spot for Arco flagellants, sisters repentia, penitent engine and seraphim. All of these units have a less than ideal amount of models to build effective units. So if you go that round you might want to pick up two combat patrol boxes to round out those units. But by that time you have three squads of 10 sisters without all of the special weapons, so another box of battle sisters would be a good idea. See how this keeps snowballing? welcome to the hobby 

[Purifying Tempest]

I'd be careful about the Combat Patrol if you already have the Collector's Edition box.  I'd be worried about the Battle Sister sprues being "Easy to Build" (aka: no optional builds), and you'll just be spamming your inventory with more boltgun sisters.  I think the current Codex gives more importance to having boring sisters with Boltguns, as the age-old build of 1 Superior with Combi-melta, 2 Sisters with Meltaguns (or Multi-melta and Storm bolter, etc.), and 2 boltgun sisters (or 1 boltgun + 1 Simulacrum) is now no longer a valid build for the squad.  There's also a decent return on un-upgraded sister squads of 5 that can run around and perform mission actions without losing a lot of efficiency, or if you wanted the cheapest way to unlock a Battalion detachment.  But normally, players are going to want to find ways to get the special and heavy weapons into their lists... and boltguns normally just become an unit tax to that end.

 

I've just recently found myself wanting to buy another basic battle sister box after nearly 18 months, and that's only because I want to run a squad of 20 sisters, and 2 squads of 10... which is a lot of Boltguns at the end of the day

 

Edit: "Piety and Pain" is a good point though.  That whole box was pretty solid... as it yields 1 Immolator (which are average when their points cost is considered, but can put out as much firepower as a main battle tank), 5 Retributors which can be built in any config available to the Retributor kit, and a Palatine.  The hard part may be finding a Drukhari player to split it with, but the dark space elves are pretty flavor of the month, so you may be able to find someone willing to go halfsies on it.  Or you may be able to browse the secondary market for people trying to offload that half of the box.  Wouldn't bet on that, too much, though, since it was a limited box that went out of print almost 4 months ago now?  Still, if you can get it for half off with a partner, it is a solid box that provides you with assets that do not overlap the Collector's Edition and helps develop the army nicely from that point.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Purifying Tempest

[BrandX]

im beginning to see how warmachine was cheaper. pretty much only ever got one of any box. just built them as they came on the box. maybe bought a second or third of some of the solos. and a few warbeasts were nice to have two of for some lists. back on topic. so your saying that the box im getting doesnt actually have any options and i can just focus on using what it comes with. well that is perfect! and then the next thing i should do is either get the sisters from the other box. or get an immolator battle tank? i really like the sound of hugging range. so i should be picking bloody rose. close range firepower sounds good too. 14 inches was the longest range weapon i had with lyliths bow. but she could move really quick. so 12inches sounds like plenty to me. can i build my own characters in this? i have an idea for a character background for a badass with a sword. oh right. so after i play a few games i should buy a basic box and use the upgrade weapons to expand. right? 

[Joukernaut]

You can absolutely build your own character, but within certain limits. There's wargear to choose from, warlord traits relics and the order special rule to create the kind of character you are interested in. A regular sisters box would be my recommendation to buy after you have build (and painted?) the collector's edition box to add some special weapons to your army and maybe do some conversions to your other units. After you have played a couple of battles you know what your army is lacking, and you can add that. If you like hugging range then after the battle sisters squad I would look into dedicated melee units like the Sisters Repentia, the celestial sacresants and zephyrim. add in a rhino or two to drive them around and you have a well rounded enemy hugging army of sisters. After that sprinkle in some of the characters to add buffs and watch the army come to life and do everything you want it to.

[Bonzi]

As your a brand new player I wouldn't go hard in buying and building additional units until you build the collector's box and play a few really small games so you understand the system and how characters, weapons and upgrades work. I'd also encourage you to go to a local game store and get a practice game or three with an experienced player whose willing to walk you through the basics. Just tell them it's your first game.

[BrandX]

As your a brand new player I wouldn't go hard in buying and building additional units until you build the collector's box and play a few really small games so you understand the system and how characters, weapons and upgrades work. I'd also encourage you to go to a local game store and get a practice game or three with an experienced player whose willing to walk you through the basics. Just tell them it's your first game.

Sounds reasonable to me thanks! I should just buy them after I paint them so it doesn’t get out of hand too fast. Is it important to plan out which weapons I want on my squads and then build that way?

[BrandX]

When it comes to painting. Is there a page here with more sister models? The section above seemed lacking in ladies. I’m not a great painter and I know that warhammer is not restrictive on how the model is painted like historical games are.

[Dread]

Welcome! Youve picked a great army to start with. The models are beautiful and finally all plastic. Im collecting my fifth sisters army now and so glad i dont need a fork lift to carry it around

[ThePenitentOne]

I'll also chime in with a welcome.

 

One of the things I love about this edition of the game is the emphasis on four sizes of battle, and actual mission support for all four of those. You can start with very small games and actually stay small until you feel comfortable enough to grow. The force you already have is a nice start; as others have said, your Arcos and Repentia squads are a bit small, but it will give you a good feel for what they can do.

 

In the 9th edition, there's a cool way to play called Crusade. It's basically a progression system you can lay over top of the basic rules so that your units can earn experience and grow as they fight. You'll want to start simple- Crusade can be a bit overwhelming if you're new to the game. But I wanted to mention it to you because it sounds like you have a strong idea for a character that you want to make. That's kind of what Crusade is all about.

 

You'll notice if you browse the range in the GW webstore that there are a fair number of named characters like Morvenn Vahl, or Saint Celestine. These characters are super cool, and tough as nails... but they are frozen in time. They have set weapons and gear, and you play them as is. If you play them in Crusade, they can't really grow.

 

So a Crusade player is likely to front-load with generic characters like Cannonesses, Palatines, etc. By playing Crusade, these characters can grow into heroes that rival the named characters in power, but you have more control over how they grow. This might be important to you, because weapon options can be a bit limiting in terms of the customizability that they provide. Crusade blows the roof off the options you have to make interesting characters.

 

Build the army you have first. Then go through the dex you have and look at each Order's special rule, their special warlord trait and special relic. Whichever orders seem interesting, play your army as that order BEFORE you paint. Minimally, it sounds like you'll want to try a game as Bloody Rose and a game as Argent Shroud.

 

After that, I'd grab a battle sisters box, or possibly the new codex. I say this because the Order traits are slightly different in the new dex, and if you hold off too long, you may be a bit deflated. That Battle Sisters squad box though really is one of the best value kits in the game. If you've got a couple games under your belt with the models you have, it will be very easy for you to figure out what you want to do with the extra ten sisters. You could build ten battle sisters- these could be two units of 5, one unit of 10 OR you could add five to the unit of ten you already have for a 15/5 split, or even add all 10 for one super unit of 20!

 

And that's not even all of your options; you could also build all 10 as Celestians (Body guards who keep your characters safe from snipers) or Dominions (who deploy further forward and carry more special weapons). Or you could go 5 of each. Or five of either Celestians and Doms and 5 Battle Sisters....

 

See why that box of ten sisters should be your next purchase? It's just too damn versatile not to buy it.

 

But building what you have and playing with it to get feel for both the game and your army is critical.

 

I sincerely hope you love this game and this army as much as I do. Welcome aboard, and may the Emperor grant you the power to slay every Heretic who dares to challenge you!

[BrandX]

Wow thank you so much for your help. Crusade sounds like it’s a lot like DND but for an army. Or is it just the cannoness that gets to upgrade? I’m going to alternate my games on Sunday between bloody rose and argent shroud. I do not currently have a codex. I thought my box came with what I needed but purifying tempest kindly informed me that I will need a new one. So I will pick that up Saturday. If I have money left over I will probably buy a box of battle sisters. Because all of the advice sounds like that is a necessary purchase anyway. Two new questions I came up with. I tried to look for answers on my own but one I couldn’t find and the other one I just want to be sure. First question exactly how much can I customize my models? Does the cannoness need to have the robes? There’s one on the website you linked that says she’s a cannoness but she doesn’t have the robes. Is that just for that named character? Second question what is the promotion path for the organization? Are sister superiors the leaders of the squad or is she just the best fighter in the squad? Do I need to mark her in some way?

[BrandX]

Third question. Are the gloves metal or fabric?

[Dread]

The canoness doesnt have to have robes. Some most have butt flaps. And loin cloths.

 

The superior is basically a sergent usually the tell tale is she has a close combat weapon in her hand.

 

The glove are armored. Think like kevlar.

[Bonzi]

#1. Models really only need to display proper wargear for the purposes of game play so your opponent can see what the model is equipped with. Decorative extras like robes/helmets ect are at player discretion.

 

#2. Not 100% certain but progression within Adeptus Sororitas should be something like: Neophyte > Sister of Battle > Sister Superior (sgt) > Palatine (Lt) > Cannoness (Cptn). There are more after that but they mostly only exist in fluff until you reach Morven Vahl who is in charge of all the orders AND is a high lord of terra wich means she's also one of a handful of people in charge of the entire Imperium.

 

#3. I paint gloves as leather as they look more supple than an armored gauntlet like space marines have. As in all things though, paint them however it makes you happy. These are your very expensive plastic army toys, if someone has a problem with your paint scheme you tell them to shut it.

 

As a side bar, has this thread made anyone else realize how insanely complicated this hobby is from the outside and how hard it must be to get into it without someone helping you out? After reading this thread I realize that even our getting started rules just have some baseline assumptions about your familiarity with the subject matter and game style. That's not even considering how difficult it is to navigate rule books, codexes, updates and supplements and GWs own product website. So much of it just requires you to understand the unique insanity that is GWs approach to miniature wargaming.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Bonzi

[BrandX]

Does that happen? Will I run into people who have an issue with how I painted them? I wasn’t sure if the robes were necessary to denote the model but I didn’t think paint mattered that much. In warmachine the rule I always heard was the weapon and head needed the be the right set. I’m pretty sure head was at least the rules for my faction as sometimes a single body made 3 models and the hands would be one of two sets while the head would be different for the three. One shot a fireball. One had its teeth bared. And the last was roaring. I guess the head was also a weapon because one had a bite attack. But the cloak is 100% unnecessary for my models? Is it necessary in the fluff?

[Bonzi]

Does that happen? Will I run into people who have an issue with how I painted them? I wasn’t sure if the robes were necessary to denote the model but I didn’t think paint mattered that much. In warmachine the rule I always heard was the weapon and head needed the be the right set. I’m pretty sure head was at least the rules for my faction as sometimes a single body made 3 models and the hands would be one of two sets while the head would be different for the three. One shot a fireball. One had its teeth bared. And the last was roaring. I guess the head was also a weapon because one had a bite attack. But the cloak is 100% unnecessary for my models? Is it necessary in the fluff?

In gameplay terms the cloaks and tabards have no purpose or effect other than aesthetics. Same with helmet vs bare head or hood. Equipment that does matter is weapons. If the model has a pistol, bolter, chainsword, power sword ect, those really should be shown on the model in some manner so your opponent can see what your model is equipped with. Models like a Sister Superior can be identified by something as simple as a change in basing or paint scheme.

 

Some of this might be more clear with some visual examples. I'll see if I can take some squad pictures tonight.

 

I will tell you that it's gonna be really really hard to build those models without bits like the robes however. Sisters models are very complex and in many cases the robes are actually part of what holds the model together. If you want the robes gone you are going to have to cut them off the model and do some very heavy conversion work which I wouldn't recommend if you're a novice to building GW models.

[9x19 Parabellum]

As a side bar, has this thread made anyone else realize how insanely complicated this hobby is from the outside and how hard it must be to get into it without someone helping you out? After reading this thread I realize that even our getting started rules just have some baseline assumptions about your familiarity with the subject matter and game style. That's not even considering how difficult it is to navigate rule books, codexes, updates and supplements and GWs own product website. So much of it just requires you to understand the unique insanity that is GWs approach to miniature wargaming.

 

Dude, 100% truth.  I took a couple months off from the hobby because I got back into WoW classic and I'm catching back up.  I started with the new AS Codex and I literally had to go into a room with an academic study mindset and start parsing it because it's so dense with information.  It was literally like studying a textbook.