Did Saint Katherine Just Get Retconned?

[ThePenitentOne]

I was 100% sure than Katherine and Dominica at the very least were Sainted in their lifetimes, but today's Warcom article seemed to indicate that she was Canonized posthumously. I'm not at home with my old edition dexes right now, so I can't double check.

 

Is this a retcon?

[BrandX]

I have no idea who your talking about but doesn’t “canonize” mean to crown someone king?

 

 

Oh okay. I’ve been lied to my whole life.

Edited June 30, 2021 by BrandX

[toaae]

I was 100% sure than Katherine and Dominica at the very least were Sainted in their lifetimes, but today's Warcom article seemed to indicate that she was Canonized posthumously. I'm not at home with my old edition dexes right now, so I can't double check.

 

Is this a retcon?

 

Perhaps, but it's just as likely that either WarCom made a wrong assumption while writing the article, or it's another example of unreliable narrator in the setting. I don't think it's anything drastic or foundation-shaking in any case.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Don't trust anything warcom writes as canon or accurate. For the Titanicus volkite weapons they had launch-kit weapons highlighted in their image instead.

[ThePenitentOne]

Yep! Page 6, Codex Witch Hunters:

 

"Dominica, Katherine, Silvana and Lucia, all of whom had been declared Living Saints in their own lifetimes, performed acts of faith that would become legendary even amongst an entire galaxy of legends."

 

Hopefully just Warcom being Warcom. I read the rules pages of the 9th dex start to finish, but I've only selectively read the fluff bits, and sometimes information like this is hidden in weird places. Might have to do a cover to cover check just to be sure.

 

Katherine will always be a Living Saint for me- even if it is a retcon; the Chapel of Saint Katherine's Aegis- the beating heart of my campaign- was consecrated to commemorate her Canonization, and she herself was in attendance at the ceremony... That's why the Praesidium Protectiva was hidden beneath the Chapel's altar before Katherine's matyrdom at the hands of the Witch Cult of Mnestteus, and lost to the Imperium on the far fringes of the galactic west for four thousand years.

[Emicus]

Timeliness are a funny thing. Perhaps by the time Terra got the news and rubberstamped her as a Saint she was already dead for a thousand years? Even if she was a living Saint when the message was sent. Hmm..

 

Warp

[Closet Skeleton]

Sebastian Thor completely rebuilt the Ecclesiarchy, things would be pretty confusing at the time.

 

Technically of course, 'canonization' just means 'adding to a list', it doesn't make someone a saint because it would be blasphemous to imply that a church had that sought of authority. In Catholicism there's two levels of recognising Sainthood, Canonization and Beatification but there's no such theological concept of multiple levels of sainthood, rather Beatification just means that a local cult is allowed to continue without the central church changing its list of Saints while canonization recognises a cult as legitimate across the entire church.

 

A Saint is a Saint whatever an institution says, 'canonization' just means the core authority has caught up to a pre-existing reality.

 

So there's no contradiction what so ever around someone being declared a living saint and post-humously canonized since the later is just an institution codifying the former.

 

The Ecclesiarchy of course is simple a heavily Catholic themed fantasy religion but one should be aware of what terms they're using actually mean before trying to interpret material for a fantasy world, even if the world builders were inspired more by popular misunderstandings than actual doctrines.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Closet Skeleton

[9x19 Parabellum]

I don't know much about lore and I don't know if this elucidates anything but...

 

I just bought the Triumph of St. Katherine model.   The instructions, which indicate of course how to build the model, name each of the 6 processional Saints as follows:

 

St. Katherine (front center)

St. Arabella (front right)

St. Lucia (back right)

St. Dominica (front left)

St. Mina (back left)

St. Silvana (back center)

 

Imagine my surprise, given that I thought St. Katherine was the dead saint being carried forth in tomb.

[ThePenitentOne]

The models in the Triumph are Sisters Pronatus; they each assume the role of a founding Saint in the Procession. So the model isn't actually Saint Katherine, it's a relic bearer playing the role of Saint Katherine in a Passion Play/ Processional.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Ah! Ok then. So my original understanding was correct?  That the coffin being carried aloft does in fact carry the remains of the actual St. Katherine?

[Montford]

Ah! Ok then. So my original understanding was correct?  That the coffin being carried aloft does in fact carry the remains of the actual St. Katherine?

Yes those should be the bones of Katherine.

[ThePenitentOne]

I'm actually looking for alternative corpse women so that I can field a Triumph of Saint Dominica, or Saint Mina. I could magnetize the platform for easy saint swapping.

[9x19 Parabellum]

I'm actually looking for alternative corpse women so that I can field a Triumph of Saint Dominica, or Saint Mina. I could magnetize the platform for easy saint swapping.

 

Can you explain more what you mean here? And what you're trying to achieve?  You want to do a "Triumph" model that features all 6 saints devoted to the same Order, is that it?

[ThePenitentOne]

The pallbearers will always contain one Pronatus representing each Order; all six Order relics will continue to be present.

 

But the Saint can change. No rules impact, but just some variety. Why should Katherine be the only Saint who's remains are carried in a procession?

 

If I'm playing OoOML, it makes sense that they bring out Katherine. But if I'm playing another order, the saint they carry could be the saint of that Order. All of the Saints are inspirational to all sisters, but each order is likely to be more inspired by the remains of their own Saint.

 

I'm already magnetizing the Pronatus, so I can use the models to represent individual Cannonesses; I just figured that if I'm magnetizing the pallbearers, I might as well magnetize the saint too... Trouble is finding suitable models.