Re-looking at the Triarch Stalker

[Captain Idaho]

As I build up the forces of my Necron Tomb World and emphasise theme and character with conversion - remember my plans to have less Space Egyptian stuff and more monstrous, infernal devices that means Canoptek Reanimator converted onto a Triarch Stalker as "pilot" and a Catacomb Command Barge that is definitely going to be something else - I started utilising the model i bought and thinking about how they operate on the table.

 

Triarch Stalkers aren't particularly offensive, especially compared to the likes of Redemptor Dreadnoughts which have similar performance on the table, whilst having relatively good defensive performance. This is especially apparent in an army with multiple vehicles and obscuring terrain.

 

I'm thinking about the role of Triarch Stalkers. They're good at taking a hit at range and Quantum Shielding will mean opponents get frustrated wounding on 4s with their melta and Dark Lances. So in the "phalanx" with the Warriors and Immortals seems like a good spot for them, as opposed to hiding on flanks and behind buildings.

 

Much of our shooting power comes from these phalanxs of Troops and it isn't unusual to see Doomstalkers behind them in support benefiting from a Technomancer. Putting hits from a Triarch Stalker on a target we plan to get loads of shots on seems like an obvious use.

 

Thing is, just getting rerolls of ones to hit becomes an expensive luxury. It has to do some damage and be a threat. A Triarch Stalker can of course look after itself a little in melee, with 3 attacks each with able to do damage 3, but it is merely a stop gap measure to not be completely helpless really. 3 attacks don't get very far, but it's a start.

 

What weapons should we give it? Well I was thinking about this quite hard. Particle Shredders have a great number of shots and damage 2, whilst being cheapest (well none of the weapons are that expensive). They can get those hits on your target for sure meaning the rest of the army can more assuredly get the rerolls. As a weapon system, it'll do some damage but not much against enemy vehicles (wounding on 5+ sucks). The best thing to fire at with this gun is infantry, but heavy infantry get most of their armour so it won't be anything other than a contributor. Good against lighter armoured troops.

 

The twin heavy Gauss cannon is similar but slightly geared towards Marines killing over lighter infantry thanks to 2 less shots and AP-3. Again, not so strong against vehicles as wounding on a 4+ and only D3 damage is very inconsistent.

 

Lastly we have the Heat Ray. It's a Multi-melta which we know is the gold standard in 9th edition, which will cause problems for anything up close and provides us another anti-tank option. Infantry it's useful as a twin heavy flamer so isn't helpless up close. The biggest weakness of this weapon is Immortals and Warriors often fire at stuff the Heat Ray is wasted on, but pairing with a Doomstalker or lots of Gauss blasters and reapers can hurt a vehicle you focus on.

 

I'm leaning towards the Heat Ray. It provides another anti-tank weapon the army often lacks and people rarely want to get close to its half range. Crucially, with the unit being expensive with just one gun, being able to hurt something badly with a melta weapon will help it contribute fairly for its investment.

 

What do folk here think about this unit? I don't think it is particularly overpowered or even competitive, but as a contributing element to the army that provides target saturation.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Captain Idaho

[Mr4Minutes]

From my experience/list crafting:

 

The Heat ray brings some anti vehicle, which Necrons can lack, with some anti horde when they’re up close. But lacks the ability to put the reroll 1s on a unit that your warriors want to shoot. It does however put the rerolls on vehicles to help your other AV(Doomsday Arks maybe?)

 

The Particle Shredder does have more shots, can be good against some light vehicles and infantry. It’ll also put the reroll on a unit your warriors probably want to shoot. It’s flat 2D is also nice and reliable.

 

The Heavy Gauss has been the more “competitive” option I’ve seen tournament players use. Higher strength and ap make it a better all arounder. Its just hampered by the terrible d3 damage. It probably should be 2D and the shredder should have more shots at 1D.

 

The CC is definitely bad. The number of attacks has made it under perform for me so often.

 

Just remember the Praetorian strat for +1 to hit can be used on it.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah the Praetorian Strategum is handy to ensure getting hits, particularly if something has a -1 to hit. Very cool. I also recommend the automatic wounding Strategum, Techno-oracular targeting. It can make S8 Melta (which we don't have a great amount) gets through when needed.

[Miek]

I don't know about competitiveness, but I really like running it with the heat ray for its overall flexibility. It's not critical to the list, can handle itself both in range and melee, is reasonably fast, etc.

 

I wish running it with the relic arrow made sense, but there's so many invul saves now it just doesn't seem to make any sense in most games.

 

I prefer its buff when there are a few heavy shots rather than several weaker shots (ex.: Warriors); its goal is then mostly to reduce variance. I thus mostly consider it in a vehicle + scarab heavy list rather than infantry, with objsec and perhaps interplanetary invaders.

 

Edit: I think it's also one of our best candidates for neat conversions. That's gotta count for something!

Edited July 8, 2021 by Miek

[Prot]

I have an old Triarch, but honestly every single time I go to add it to the list, it falls out the bottom. It feels over priced. 

 

And really my issue with it is that right now when I play against one of these really tough armies... Death Guard, SoB,... Dark Angels.... I feel 'forced' to play to the reanimation strengths. Sadly, this unit just doesn't fit in most of my lists.

 

I do try to think of ways I could use it though, but to make my point, most of those methods play against the strength of my Warrior based lists. The best way for me to think of using this is to forget the troops (which is dicey) as far as supporting them, and dump points into all units with Quantum shielding. Then units that can spam tremendous firepower... Tomb Blades? Anni Barges? And try to maximize that side of the codex (which to be quite honest I have not done since coming back to Crons in 9th. So I can't speak on the validity of this idea.)

[Captain Idaho]

It does feel expensive for its firepower. 1 gun? Seems a little underwhelming. Personally, I think Necrons heavy weapons should be stupidly powerful since they are the most advanced race in the galaxy.

 

I'm thinking Necrons need to either take lots of vehicles and Spyders or none at all. They're solid in numbers I feel, though I must confess to feeling like they're all a bit heavily priced.

 

Wish I could argue with Prot on this one since I love vehicles, but yes a Triarch Stalker does seem to struggle. Still, it you have a bunch or Spyders with your phalanx of Troops and a few Destroyers plus some other vehicles etc, then perhaps it can stay alive longer to make a difference.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Captain Idaho

[Prot]

I remember back in the day when I played Necrons for Battlefleet Gothic... that's when you really got the sense of how powerful they are as a race. Stuff like the Monolith and the Triarch Stalker should be far more powerful, and if the problem is the offensive output, then at least make it super survivable.

 

If it could reduce damage, or cut all incoming damage in half.... have an invuln then we might be in business, but now we are in Redemptor territory.

[Gloomfoe]

Yeah sadly, it doesn't do anything well enough to merit it's cost. It's shooting is subpar, it's melee is meh, it's buff is situational, it's durability isn't any better than anything else with quantum shielding, it doesn't get dynasty stuff...add it all together and I'd rather have a ghost ark or annhilation barge

[Ahzek451]

One could argue for a buff to all the aspects mentioned above, but how many people would think that it hit the sweet spot if it had the simple fix of being able to designate a target for the bonus separate from it's shooting attack? Essentially marking anything up and going about the rest of it's business as normal. 

[Get Thokt]

Triarch Stalker is currently losing out to Destroyers imo. 2 Heavy Destroyers (120) give better range and damage vs Heat Ray (140). Whilst 3 Lokhust Destroyers (150) give more shots than the Twin Gauss Cannon (150). All re-rolling their 1s to hit. Sure you have durability with the Stalker, but for anti tank I rather lean into its damage capability and not how long it can survive on the board Edited July 14, 2021 by Get Thokt

[Mandragola]

I'm thinking Necrons need to either take lots of vehicles and Spyders or none at all. They're solid in numbers I feel, though I must confess to feeling like they're all a bit heavily priced.

I agree with this. The stalker seems to be designed to fit into an army with lots of other shooty vehicles. It helps that it's in a different slot to most of them. But that just doesn't feel like it would be a particularly good army, since all the shooty vehicle options we have are kind of underwhelming. You'd probably do pretty well against something like a knight army if you had a couple of these and three DDAs or doomstalkers, but that's not really what we need.