Effective Build for Bladeguard Veterans

[mel_danes]

TLDR: Like it says on the tin.

A bit of context and background.

When 9th dropped I Bought/Swapped an Indomitus box. Thus I have the marine half twice, maximum saturation!
This netted me 6 Bladeguard Vets and 2 Bladeguard Lieutenants (Which really are just more Bladeguard).
So I started with 8 bodies.
I have since bought the separate release of the Bladeguard Veterans , adding 3 more bodies.
So I have 11 Bladeguard bodies.

I play Ultramarines and have several of the Laurel Crest helmets, that oddly are similar themed to the Bladeguard design.
I also have 5 of the awesome Suzerain Invictarus Shields.
So my initial plan was to create a sweet conversion of a Lieutenant with my wicked themed helmet, then do 2 squads of 5 Bladeguard, one with the swapped shields.

Since then I've read some battle reports and looking at the costs of the unit I don't know if this is the best use of the mini's.

Again as an Ultramarine player I'm not going to change chapters to play the new hotness, so that's not a helpful suggestion.

So how have you played yours, what worked, what was overkill, what would you do with these guys if they were yours?

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

All the winning lists I see use Bladeguard in squads of 5. There's sometimes a list that uses 4 or 6 but most of them seem to be 5, but Bladeguard aren't super common either compared to units like Vanguard Veteran or Eradicators. All I know is the best loadout for Bladeguard is putting the storm shield on the back, don't @ me.

[redmapa]

You can put 5 plus a character with the Nobility Made Manifest WLT in an Impulsor, move it and disembark everything and as long as they are within 3" of an enemy unit they can Heroically Intervene and get a "charge" when you wouldnt be able to and since its an aura you could potentially do it with more than one squad though that sounds trickier.

[Kallas]

You can put 5 plus a character with the Nobility Made Manifest WLT in an Impulsor, move it and disembark everything and as long as they are within 3" of an enemy unit they can Heroically Intervene and get a "charge" when you wouldnt be able to and since its an aura you could potentially do it with more than one squad though that sounds trickier.

 

Uh, you can't Heroically Intervene in your own turn - and the enemy can just move away or charge you in their turn.

[Karhedron]

I have found 5 + a character seems to be the sweet spot as they can take a few casualties yet still dish out the pain. An Impulsor is a very good investment unless you are playing very small games where they can foot-slog.

[ADragonuFear]

I would definitely consider saving at least one indomitus lieutenant, they're one of the best loadouts thanks to having an invulnerable save for just a few points more, plus a pistol that's actually okay.

 

And as said by others, running squads of 5 is the generally agreed upon number, a very durable bully unit. Delivering them may require an impulsor, and they make great targets for character auras and apothecary revives. You need to leverage those three wounds and tough saves. They're not right for every list but they are certainly a usable unit.

[CCE1981]

I ran a 5-man unit as a Space Wolves Successor, they killed a Knight in one melee round.  The Sergeant barely got to use his Frost Weapon.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I run my blade guard in two squads of four, each squad has an Impulsor. I like having some extra space in the impulsors if I need to hide characters. The other reason I don't run squads of five is because I run Ragnar and the Primaris techmarine so I have alot of d2 weapons, and Deathguard became a really tough matchup.

[Karhedron]

I would definitely consider saving at least one indomitus lieutenant, they're one of the best loadouts thanks to having an invulnerable save for just a few points more, plus a pistol that's actually okay.

Yes, the Indomitus Lt is probably the best build but he is still 90 points. For 5 points more you can get the Primaris Captain with MCPS who has +1W, +1A and +1Ld. Granted he has a 3+/4++ save rather than a 2+/4++ save but that is only relevant against Ap-0 and and AP-1 attacks.

For me the Lt is too close in price to the Captain to be competitive. The only time I would consider the Lt is when I have used up my Captain or I desperately need multiple buff characters and am short of HQ slots. IMHO, all Marine Lts need about 10 points shaving off their price tag.

It is a lovely model so I converted mine into the Bladeguard Sergeant.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Karhedron

[Lord Raven 19]

Uh, Karhedron, think you mistyped the invuln on the Lt, its a 4++, not a 3++.

[Karhedron]

Uh, Karhedron, think you mistyped the invuln on the Lt, its a 4++, not a 3++.

Thanks, I have fixed the typo in the post.

[mel_danes]

Thank you for the comments.
For those of you that deploy them in a 5 man squad + character in an Impulsor, do you ever use the Bladeguard Ancient? Do you use a Lt or Cpt?
Do you find you ever want to run more than 1 squad, I'll have enough for 2 but that could be overkill.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The problem with the ancient is he doesn’t have any beatstick melee weapons.

[tychobi]

5 with no upgrades work great as a counterpuncher and objective holder for ultras. Apocathary is a great babysitter, the 6+++ on such a tough model is great. The impulsor is not necessary. Other buffs are nice but not as nice as more bodies.

[XeonDragon]

The drawback of BGV is getting them where they need to be. Either run a squad of 5 or 6 with an apothecary (in relic armour to give a 5++) or put them in an impulsor. 

 

The apothecary options ensures they can move/advance and enough will arrive alive to do their job and as a bonus, the apothecary keeps them doing their job longer. The impulsor option gets them there faster and probably intact, but whilst view vary, I see many transport options as a quasi-"tax". 

[Dracos]

I like the Indomitus Lt. Not a Cpt but since I use Whirlwind of Rage, rerolls of “1”s to wound is important for me.

[CCE1981]

The drawback of BGV is getting them where they need to be. Either run a squad of 5 or 6 with an apothecary (in relic armour to give a 5++) or put them in an impulsor.

 

I prefer Armor Indomitus over Artificer Armor, a 2+ save will only benefit from a 5++ at ap -4 or better. The Armor Indomitus can give you a 3++ for a phase you are in need of it plus 1 wound.

[Ragnar69]

The Ultra Ancient can also have that fancy Banner for +1 attacks and gives +1 to hit. If you put them in an Impulsor I would pair them with a Lt. Or Judicar, but footslogging you might also add the ancient

[Karhedron]

For those of you that deploy them in a 5 man squad + character in an Impulsor, do you ever use the Bladeguard Ancient? Do you use a Lt or Cpt?

I don't use the Ancient personally. As BBF says, he has no combat ability of his own. A Lt or Captain rerolling 1s is almost as good as +1 to-Hit and they bring some serious melee punch of their own. If you have a tasty relic banner or you are running 2 squads of BGVs that you can buff then maybe the Ancient is worth a look but for one squad, I probably would not bother.

 

Do you find you ever want to run more than 1 squad, I'll have enough for 2 but that could be overkill.

Sometimes it might be overkill but sometimes it might be just-enough-kill. If I had points for another melee beatstick unit, I would probably look at either Vanguard Vets or some flavour of Terminators. Both can fulfil similar roles but have some differences. Vanvets are slightly less durable but are much more mobile and can come in from Reserves. I favour 4 Lightning claws and 1 Thunder hammer with Storm Shields all round. Terminators can also enter from Reserves and can be built either more shooty or more durable.

 

You can go for 2 squads of BGVs (particularly if you do want to leverage the Ancient) but personally I like mixing up the capabilities slightly.

[SvenIronhand]

I would definitely consider saving at least one indomitus lieutenant, they're one of the best loadouts thanks to having an invulnerable save for just a few points more, plus a pistol that's actually okay.

Yes, the Indomitus Lt is probably the best build but he is still 90 points. For 5 points more you can get the Primaris Captain with MCPS who has +1W, +1A and +1Ld. Granted he has a 3+/4++ save rather than a 2+/4++ save but that is only relevant against Ap-0 and and AP-1 attacks.

For me the Lt is too close in price to the Captain to be competitive. The only time I would consider the Lt is when I have used up my Captain or I desperately need multiple buff characters and am short of HQ slots. IMHO, all Marine Lts need about 10 points shaving off their price tag.

It is a lovely model so I converted mine into the Bladeguard Sergeant.

I would argue that the Lieutenant is a good supplement for your Captain, and a decent combat character in his own right.

[War of the Eagle]

I run my bladegaurd in my Raptors in a squad of 5 with a Primarus chaplain backing them up. The bonis to charge range out of deep strike or MoA them up the field pregame serves me well. And hes pretty fighty.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Thank you for the comments.

For those of you that deploy them in a 5 man squad + character in an Impulsor, do you ever use the Bladeguard Ancient? Do you use a Lt or Cpt?

Do you find you ever want to run more than 1 squad, I'll have enough for 2 but that could be overkill.

 

I only run 4 in an Impulsor but I still don't run the Ancient. He doesn't hit hard enough to justify the points, and marine armies already have a ton of great character options. Its really easy to have to much support and not enough bodies that benefit from it.

 

As far as characters are concerned, my main suggestion would be a primaris chaplain on bike. He can keep up with the Impulsors, and provide charge buffs with canticle of hate, and/or mantra of strength to get some damage 3 nearby. They also have the speed to split off and accomplish something on their own. 

 

I do run 2 units, but I only run primaris and I'm playing a close combat chapter. It really comes down to how much you want to emphasize melee with your ultras, your unit existing unit selection, and what units interest you.   

[mel_danes]

Again, thanks mates!

 

For additional context I'm working towards an all Primaris build. I've got somewhere close to 7000 points worth of them.

 

I'm an old rogue trader era Ultramarine player, started with the metal boys and been on the blue train ever since.

Like many, I can't reconcile the new minis with the old ones, they look to different.

So my 10k+ points of Firstborn have sat unused, mid project since 8th launched.

 

Back into build questions.

 

So I like the character recommendations.

Seems the BG Ancient, looks cool but lacks biting power.

Some go for the Lt, others a Cpt, and still others a Chappy or Apothecary.

 

I've got the Indomitus Chaplain, who is a total unit, so that could be cool.

I've also got a spare BG Ancient, whom I considered kitbashing into a BG Apothecary.

 

Some great stuff in here guys.

[Karhedron]

There are lots of viable options. Captain and Lt are functionally very similar, it just comes down to points. They are fairly plain but have plenty of Warlord Traits to buff them further and their "always on" bonus is helpful. I like "Rites of War" to make my Bladeguard ObjSec but there are plenty of good options.

The Chaplain is more flexible as his Litanies cover a variety of uses. Definitely worth looking at the Master of Sanctity upgrade for 2 Litanies per turn on a 2+ rather than one on a 3+. The bike Chaplain is better IMHO since he is even tankier and you don't need to worry about disembarking the turn before you want to chant your litanies. For me, the bike chaplain brings so much extra benefit as to be almost a no-brainer.

The Apothecary is solid. While he is weak in combat (like the Ancient), the ability to heal and resurrect models is awesome. I would always go for the full upgrades of Chief Apothecary and Selfless Healer warlord trait to maximise his bonuses. Also consider giving him the Armour Indomitus since he is a bit squishy and keeping him alive is worth the extra relic.

I don't know if the Judiciar is still worth a look now that GW have changed how strike first and strike last work.

The Ancient does not float my boat but may work for specific builds. I converted mine into a Sanguinary Priest and he looks pretty cool.

[mel_danes]

These Multipart Bladeguard kits are slick.

The way the little belt clips into the waist, clamshell style is nice design.

I'm loving building these guys.

 

Finished a Sarg based on the Lt kit. Looks good. Moving onto an Lt based on a Multipart base guy.