Return of the Void Rangers - Still WIP but improved

[Commander Nicky]

Hi Guys
 
I have been away from the forum for some time, due to work and my study. I'm still working on a White Scar successor chapter which I like to name: Void Rangers. I would like some feedback on my idears.
The culture I have choosen is Sengoku (Warring State) period of Japan, with a Samurai/buddhist warroir monk theme.
 
The following details are already set:

• Unknown Founding - They do not known much of their own history, and if they do, they do not speak of this, or how many chapters has gone before them with the current name or why they hide it. The officials story is that they have claim their current homeworlds after another chapter failed in some lost crusade.
• Put the past behind them - They look forward, not behind, for their future. They do not care of other people/astartes' failers. That is their problem, not theirs. They fight for a brighter future, not past glory (or that is what they want to believe).
• A way Home - The Chapter have normaly stewardship over a large, sparly populated domain called Hasark's Path. Their fortress monastery sites on an large astroid/dwarf planet in remote, lifeless star system named "Edo Major" in Hasark's Path. To enter this system, a large astoroid fields which surrounder the system has to be crossed, which makes it very difficult to navigate even without the fortress defence systems. This fortress, which is called "Old Spike" does, however, not serve as a their main base of operations. Instead, it serves as a ammunition storrage, fleet refitning and training ground for the chapter. Their main Chapter base is the relic-ship Act of Resolve, ,a hybrid lance attack-fleet carrier which serves as the Void Rangers' flagship.
• Far fleeting recruitment - The Void Rangers do not have a single recrutiment world but instead recruit from the many (mostly federal) worlds in their domain or take them wherever they find them; be it on the road or in different warzones.
• A division of clans - Instead of having companies, they have clans which are more specialized in their military function. The size of a Clan are roughly the same as a demi-company. The exception are the different departments like the Apothecarion or Librarius which are also considered clans. their speciality is therefore in their flexible organisation and fast, decapitation strikes aimed at striking at their opponents leaderships.
• Difficulty with some Chapters - They do not operate well with some of the other Chapters. This is due to old grudges or bad blood, mostly the Dark Angels and their successors who more than once have abandanden them in a warzone for some mysterios purposes.
• Schools of Thoughts and Combat cults - The chapter has a formation which exist outside of the ordinary military formations of their chapter. This is called the Schools of Thoughts. Their purpose is to train and hone the skills of the Void Rangers mentally and martially. In addtion, they have the combat-cult which are  dueling societies or an informal network of specialists which are dedicated to a singular focus of war, combat skill, area, technique, or knowledge. These cults operate their own sub-cults/Dojos and shrines, in which its members reflect in different ways upon their duties as Space Marines while working to expand their own library knowleagde and combat-techniques. Membership to one School of Thought or combat-cult does not preclude membership to another, and the greatest heroes are member of several Schools and Cults.
• Command Structure and chain of command - The warleaders/captains of the chapter have their command giving to them by the chapter master/Taikun but their command never stays permanent and are raised, formulated, and broken down on an as-needed basis and/or are created as ad-hoc formation when an emergency arise. The only formation which stay permament are the clans and the leadership of the clans which are almost never removed from their position as clan-commander unless they are promoted.

 

 

++++++++++++++++++++++

 

CHAPTER NAME: .............. ...Void Rangers

FOUNDING: ............................??? [M.34 a least] 

CHAPTER WORLD: ...............Edo Major

FORTRESS MONASTERY: ....Old Spike and Act of Resolve (Keep and Flagship res.)

GENE-SEED: …………...........White Scars

KNOWN DESCENDANTS: .....NONE

 

Allegiance: Imperium of Man 

Chapter Master: Date Harumune

Current Size Estimate: +900

Specialty: Flexible organisation and fast, decapitation strikes aimed at eliminating the enemy's command structures

Colours: Gold, blue, green and black

Symbol: A dark circle with an halo around (like a solar eclipse)

Battle Cry: "The Emperor Uses All"

 

 

This is so far I am getting...
 

[Brother Lunkhead]

Welcome back Commander Nick..... looking forward to seeing more detail on the Void Rangers

[rookster]

Looking good so far Brother, one question though, any specific reason for going White Scars? Their speciality sounds a little more Raven Guard

[Commander Nicky]

Looking good so far Brother, one question though, any specific reason for going White Scars? Their speciality sounds a little more Raven Guard

I was considering either the White Scars or Raven Guard. Their specilization is very much a reminder of the Sons of Horus or Carcharodons; A lighting decisive surgical assault aimed directly at the command element of the enemy with surprise being a/the key factor. My idear of them was therefore not a band of assassins (through they do make use of that through) or covered operation forces (they also make use of that), but a hard hitting, hit-and-run force, with more focus on the hitting part and less on the running. That was the argument (in my head) for the White Scars over Raven Guard...

[rookster]

 

Looking good so far Brother, one question though, any specific reason for going White Scars? Their speciality sounds a little more Raven Guard

 

I was considering either the White Scars or Raven Guard. Their specilization is very much a reminder of the Sons of Horus or Carcharodons; A lighting decisive surgical assault aimed directly at the command element of the enemy with surprise being a/the key factor. My idear of them was therefore not a band of assassins (through they do make use of that through) or covered operation forces (they also make use of that), but a hard hitting, hit-and-run force, with more focus on the hitting part and less on the running. That was the argument (in my head) for the White Scars over Raven Guard...

Fair enough, I’m working on a white scars successor as well, its why I was curious.

The one thing you could do is have them not know who their gene sire is, and have suspicions that they are potentially either White Scars or Raven Guard or even a hybrid of the two

Edited July 11, 2021 by rookster

[Commander Nicky]

 

 

Looking good so far Brother, one question though, any specific reason for going White Scars? Their speciality sounds a little more Raven Guard

I was considering either the White Scars or Raven Guard. Their specilization is very much a reminder of the Sons of Horus or Carcharodons; A lighting decisive surgical assault aimed directly at the command element of the enemy with surprise being a/the key factor. My idear of them was therefore not a band of assassins (through they do make use of that through) or covered operation forces (they also make use of that), but a hard hitting, hit-and-run force, with more focus on the hitting part and less on the running. That was the argument (in my head) for the White Scars over Raven Guard...

Fair enough, I’m working on a white scars successor as well, its why I was curious.

The one thing you could do is have them not know who their gene sire is, and have suspicions that they are potentially either White Scars or Raven Guard or even a hybrid of the two

 

What is a hybrid of two gene sires? Don't they have gene-seed from only one source/primarch?

[Brother Lunkhead]

 

 

 

Looking good so far Brother, one question though, any specific reason for going White Scars? Their speciality sounds a little more Raven Guard

I was considering either the White Scars or Raven Guard. Their specilization is very much a reminder of the Sons of Horus or Carcharodons; A lighting decisive surgical assault aimed directly at the command element of the enemy with surprise being a/the key factor. My idear of them was therefore not a band of assassins (through they do make use of that through) or covered operation forces (they also make use of that), but a hard hitting, hit-and-run force, with more focus on the hitting part and less on the running. That was the argument (in my head) for the White Scars over Raven Guard...

Fair enough, I’m working on a white scars successor as well, its why I was curious.

The one thing you could do is have them not know who their gene sire is, and have suspicions that they are potentially either White Scars or Raven Guard or even a hybrid of the two

 

What is a hybrid of two gene sires? Don't they have gene-seed from only one source/primarch?

That would be the splicing and manipulation of the gene seeds sourced from two or more primarchs. This is something talked about and alluded to in several DIY chapter creations here and on other fan sites. However, this level of sophisticated gene manipulation seems way over the level of scientific and technological understanding in the 40Kverse. The most significant gene manipulation before the Ultima Founding was the 21st (Cursed) Founding. To the best of our knowledge this involved gene manipulation to remove flaws in available gene sources, and this was not entirely successful  I don't think we have examples of splicing different gene seed sources in Imperial/AdMech labs in official canon.

 

In any event, I think all we have here is a matter of different fighting doctrines that are prevalent to the White Scars and Raven Guard. I don't see why you couldn't meld these two doctrine into your own. It's mostly a matter of study, observation and training, and not genetics. This melding of doctrines could be explained in any number of ways. The chapter may have been conceived with this idea in mind and the initial training cadre could have consisted of both White Scars and Raven Guard elements, or it could have simply evolved over time based on need. There are any number of ways to approach this.

 

As an interesting aside, with the advent of the Primaris chapters, the 10th companies seem to have evolved into special forces companies across the board with basic training of neophytes relegated to background fluff. The 10th companies have always had a special forces aspect about them, but now that seems to be their primary function, as the front line squads no longer consist of neophytes. You might be brazen enough to suggest that the Void Rangers pioneered this change in doctrine for their own chapter long before the Ultima Founding. I'd support that

Edited July 12, 2021 by Brother Lunkhead

[rookster]

 

 

 

Looking good so far Brother, one question though, any specific reason for going White Scars? Their speciality sounds a little more Raven Guard

I was considering either the White Scars or Raven Guard. Their specilization is very much a reminder of the Sons of Horus or Carcharodons; A lighting decisive surgical assault aimed directly at the command element of the enemy with surprise being a/the key factor. My idear of them was therefore not a band of assassins (through they do make use of that through) or covered operation forces (they also make use of that), but a hard hitting, hit-and-run force, with more focus on the hitting part and less on the running. That was the argument (in my head) for the White Scars over Raven Guard...

Fair enough, I’m working on a white scars successor as well, its why I was curious.

The one thing you could do is have them not know who their gene sire is, and have suspicions that they are potentially either White Scars or Raven Guard or even a hybrid of the two

 

What is a hybrid of two gene sires? Don't they have gene-seed from only one source/primarch?

 

thats one option, but I was more thinking along the lines of, they don't know who their gene sire is, their tactics makes people think they might be raven guard successors, their looks white scars. there are multiple cannon sources of chapters who don't know who their gene sire is

[rookster]

 

 

 

 

Looking good so far Brother, one question though, any specific reason for going White Scars? Their speciality sounds a little more Raven Guard

I was considering either the White Scars or Raven Guard. Their specilization is very much a reminder of the Sons of Horus or Carcharodons; A lighting decisive surgical assault aimed directly at the command element of the enemy with surprise being a/the key factor. My idear of them was therefore not a band of assassins (through they do make use of that through) or covered operation forces (they also make use of that), but a hard hitting, hit-and-run force, with more focus on the hitting part and less on the running. That was the argument (in my head) for the White Scars over Raven Guard...

Fair enough, I’m working on a white scars successor as well, its why I was curious.

The one thing you could do is have them not know who their gene sire is, and have suspicions that they are potentially either White Scars or Raven Guard or even a hybrid of the two

 

What is a hybrid of two gene sires? Don't they have gene-seed from only one source/primarch?

That would be the splicing and manipulation of the gene seeds sourced from two or more primarchs. This is something talked about and alluded to in several DIY chapter creations here and on other fan sites. However, this level of sophisticated gene manipulation seems way over the level of scientific and technological understanding in the 40Kverse. The most significant gene manipulation before the Ultima Founding was the 21st (Cursed) Founding. To the best of our knowledge this involved gene manipulation to remove flaws in available gene sources, and this was not entirely successful  I don't think we have examples of splicing different gene seed sources in Imperial/AdMech labs in official canon.

 

In any event, I think all we have here is a matter of different fighting doctrines that are prevalent to the White Scars and Raven Guard. I don't see why you couldn't meld these two doctrine into your own. It's mostly a matter of study, observation and training, and not genetics. This melding of doctrines could be explained in any number of ways. The chapter may have been conceived with this idea in mind and the initial training cadre could have consisted of both White Scars and Raven Guard elements, or it could have simply evolved over time based on need. There are any number of ways to approach this.

 

A possible other option for this is to have the first chapter master be white scars, have them know they are white scars gene seed, but have the first chapter master have had long Death Watch service. 

[Commander Nicky]

 

 

 

 

Looking good so far Brother, one question though, any specific reason for going White Scars? Their speciality sounds a little more Raven Guard

I was considering either the White Scars or Raven Guard. Their specilization is very much a reminder of the Sons of Horus or Carcharodons; A lighting decisive surgical assault aimed directly at the command element of the enemy with surprise being a/the key factor. My idear of them was therefore not a band of assassins (through they do make use of that through) or covered operation forces (they also make use of that), but a hard hitting, hit-and-run force, with more focus on the hitting part and less on the running. That was the argument (in my head) for the White Scars over Raven Guard...

Fair enough, I’m working on a white scars successor as well, its why I was curious.

The one thing you could do is have them not know who their gene sire is, and have suspicions that they are potentially either White Scars or Raven Guard or even a hybrid of the two

 

What is a hybrid of two gene sires? Don't they have gene-seed from only one source/primarch?

That would be the splicing and manipulation of the gene seeds sourced from two or more primarchs. This is something talked about and alluded to in several DIY chapter creations here and on other fan sites. However, this level of sophisticated gene manipulation seems way over the level of scientific and technological understanding in the 40Kverse. The most significant gene manipulation before the Ultima Founding was the 21st (Cursed) Founding. To the best of our knowledge this involved gene manipulation to remove flaws in available gene sources, and this was not entirely successful  I don't think we have examples of splicing different gene seed sources in Imperial/AdMech labs in official canon.

 

In any event, I think all we have here is a matter of different fighting doctrines that are prevalent to the White Scars and Raven Guard. I don't see why you couldn't meld these two doctrine into your own. It's mostly a matter of study, observation and training, and not genetics. This melding of doctrines could be explained in any number of ways. The chapter may have been conceived with this idea in mind and the initial training cadre could have consisted of both White Scars and Raven Guard elements, or it could have simply evolved over time based on need. There are any number of ways to approach this.

 

As an interesting aside, with the advent of the Primaris chapters, the 10th companies seem to have evolved into special forces companies across the board with basic training of neophytes relegated to background fluff. The 10th companies have always had a special forces aspect about them, but now that seems to be their primary function, as the front line squads no longer consist of neophytes. You might be brazen enough to suggest that the Void Rangers pioneered this change in doctrine for their own chapter long before the Ultima Founding. I'd support that

 

What I think I want, is them to have a story, where they neither have a past which connect them to a founding chapter, doctrine or their primarch, but at the same time actually have a story about how they became "seperated" or alienated from the rest of the astartes and had to chosen their own doctrine. One of the thing I like about the 40k universe is the Great Crusade/Horus Heresy era. I would very much like them to have some connection with that time and some story of how they themself became the chapter that they are now. I have read a lot about the legions before the Heresy, and there are 4 first founding chapters/legions whose story they could connect to this idear of them being from the Great Crusade and which fits this story-profile. These are the Dark Angels, The White Scars, The Iron Hands and the Raven Guard. I could come up with a reasonble story about they came to be (with the core/leaders of these warriors being from the Great Crusade/Horus Heresy era but without a connection to their primarch), but there is some complication with their stories:

 

The first, the Dark Angels, were spread out during, and until the ending of the Great Crusade and were fighting their own battles. In my eyes, there are 4 groups worth telling here; Those who fought in the Tharmas crusade and later split up under the command of Lion El'Johnson and Corswain (group 1 and 2) Those who were left on Caliban under Luther (group 3) and "the rest" (group 4) who where fighting in the Heresy seperated from the rest of the legion and whose story we don't know fully. My chapter could have been an isolated chapter/battle formation from group 4 who did not join the other Dark Angels until after the destruction of Caliban or something like that.. Perhaps long after they reunited with the main body (years, decades perhaps). They could have been distrusted by the rest of the Dark Angels (from group 1,2 and 4) and chosen to ignore the gatering of the Dark Angels because of a lack of kindship or connection; Instead chosen go their own seperate way.

A problem with this story, is that the Dark Angels have/had a strong unity and brotherhood due to the different Orders and Hosts which also existed. Also the core of these warriors which would become the Void Rangers would have to have some disregard for the Lion since they do not give a damn about their past, yet at the same time they would somehow have to earn his favour 'cause else they would have be sent back to Caliban...

 

The second is The White Scars. They were Pioneer companies before their reuionen with the Khan. Some of these pioneer companies were very isolated and did not meet the Khan and the rest of the Legion until after the "Blooding" and never really got use to the way the Legion became the White Scars; instead clinging to the old Pioneer way. When the Horus Heresy began, they were acting as soucts/outriders on the fringes of the Galaxy; only discover the civil war until after they had a chance to interact (again years, decades after).

But then why would the return to the Pioneer habbits? and what would their relationship be with the White Scars Legion?

The Third, The Iron Hands could have been after the drop site massacre. Some of these suvivors formed their own war group and raged a war against the traitors. These suvivors could have beforehand disagreed with Ferrus Manus and his haste to get to Istvaan so fast. Upon Ferrus Manus death and their defeat at Istvaan V they could have renounce their connection with the X legion; declaring that it and their primarch had failed in their true hour testing and that a new way would have to be chosen. They would without doubt have face the death penalty from the rest of the Legion had they known about it. As such, no one were able to punish themn for they simply vanish... Changing their colors and names. Perhaps they became some sort of BlackShields; Renegade from the Iron Hands and living only for the fight against the Traitors... At some point they could have been isolated only to return a universe were there was no living Primarch except the Demon Primarch...

It sound awsome, but I feel it leaves something missing...

The last is the Raven Guard who; not unlike the Carcharodons; were sent to explore the fringes of the Imperium with an independent nomad-predation fleet, composed mosty Terran legionaries. This fleet, could have been trapped in the outer darkness, or fighting nameless horrors beond the Imperium's boarders, only to return when the Heresy was long over, and Corax had dissapered.

But this is just a rip of from the Carcharodons chapter....

 

I like the idear about how they were Raven Guards who became a Pioneer company and had to use White Scars hit-and-run tactics to win and survive. They then became lost in the Warp and only materilised many years later in a new setting... Is that a dum idear?

[rookster]

Right so first of all I'm posting this with out any intended insault, It just really helped me set the starting bones for my wip chapter without going the mary sue route or well trodden tropes. its a bit dated but still super useful http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132379-guide-to-diying/.

 

So here is the issue I am seeing, trying to link a chapter to the horus heresy legions is going to be difficult, basically they would have to be 2nd founding which is basically locked down. which kinda leads you with 3rd founding our later. The problem with going 3rd founding is that its 1000 years after the end of HH and even though marines live a long time... they live violent lives.

 

What I would potentially suggest to you is that you look at established 2nd Founding chapters or even 3rd, and use them as your spring board so to speak, like in the raven guards case, take a look at the Raptors really cool chapter, and as a 2nd founding chapter they would have successor chapters. this also lets you get away from being under the primarks direct teachings, and means you can be more liberal in the tactics you use.

 

I've gone directly for a white scars successor from 4th founding, I initially was humming and hawing about wanting to have my first chapter master having ridden with the Great Khan himself, but I realized without some janky mary sue stuff it just wasn't going to happen. 

 

What you could also do by doing a successor of a successor is that among the relics gifted to the chapter upon its founding by its parent chapter were some ancient texts which could be the teachings and reports from one of those Pioneer company veterans. you could them use them as a kinda of "holy book" or what have you that your chapter bases its tactics and teaches upon.

Edited July 12, 2021 by rookster

[Bjorn Firewalker]

A possible other option for this is to have the first chapter master be white scars, have them know they are white scars gene seed, but have the first chapter master have had long Death Watch service.

This makes the most amount of sense. As being named Chapter Master of a new founding can be seen as both a great honor (a promotion, a sign one is trusted with the responsibilities of leading 1000 supersoldiers in the Imperium's defense) and a DIShonor (effectively being exiled from one's own Chapter, forced to raise forces from planets whose cultures are likely very different from that of your planet of birth), one wonders how this Deathwatch Marine-turned-Chapter Master views his new position. Maybe say he chose to accept the position, as after Deathwatch service and subsequent mind-wiping (to prevent him from revealing the Inquisition's secrets, as detailed in Aaron Demski-Bowden's short story On Hate), he has difficulty relating to battle-brothers from his original Chapter?

Edited July 12, 2021 by Bjorn Firewalker

[Brother Lunkhead]

Brother Ferrata's Guide to DIYing is definitely a great resource and guide and I hope you've had a chance to look at it. However, keep in mind it is a guide and not a set of laws. With the advent of the Primaris and the coming of the Ultima Founding, some of the original guidelines presented by Ferrata are slightly outdated...... creation of new Chapters from Space Wolves source for example. Sourcing your chapter back to the HH is also going to be very difficult. You're going to have to come up with something very interesting and most importantly, credible to get away with that. So, think that over very carefully.

 

Brother rookster's idea of the White Scars origin and Brother Bjorn's extrapolation have a great deal of merit, and you might give those some serious consideration.

 

Now, having said that, I must admit that I'm a bit of a rule bender and breaker when it comes to the boundaries in creating DIY chapters. Here, I brought five DIY chapters into M41, straight from the time of the Horus Heresy  Can you guess which rules I bent/broke? I will point out though, I didn't do this on a whim. I thought about it a lot. The origin went through a lot of revisions and review from some folks who have a lot more experience working and playing in the 40Kverse than I ever will. Only then, did I feel comfortable bringing it here. If you are going to bend the rules, make sure it's done in a way that is arguably credible within the lore, doesn't outright put your chapter in the middle of established lore, and has little chance of being altered by any future revelations or revisions in the official lore by the GW and/or BL Cabals.

[Commander Nicky]

Right so first of all I'm posting this with out any intended insault, It just really helped me set the starting bones for my wip chapter without going the mary sue route or well trodden tropes. its a bit dated but still super useful http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132379-guide-to-diying/.

 

So here is the issue I am seeing, trying to link a chapter to the horus heresy legions is going to be difficult, basically they would have to be 2nd founding which is basically locked down. which kinda leads you with 3rd founding our later. The problem with going 3rd founding is that its 1000 years after the end of HH and even though marines live a long time... they live violent lives.

 

What I would potentially suggest to you is that you look at established 2nd Founding chapters or even 3rd, and use them as your spring board so to speak, like in the raven guards case, take a look at the Raptors really cool chapter, and as a 2nd founding chapter they would have successor chapters. this also lets you get away from being under the primarks direct teachings, and means you can be more liberal in the tactics you use.

 

I've gone directly for a white scars successor from 4th founding, I initially was humming and hawing about wanting to have my first chapter master having ridden with the Great Khan himself, but I realized without some janky mary sue stuff it just wasn't going to happen. 

 

What you could also do by doing a successor of a successor is that among the relics gifted to the chapter upon its founding by its parent chapter were some ancient texts which could be the teachings and reports from one of those Pioneer company veterans. you could them use them as a kinda of "holy book" or what have you that your chapter bases its tactics and teaches upon.

No insult taking. I am posting because I wanted feedback and some validation. Therefore I must be open to critisizm. And you are right. I really do not want my Void Rangers to be of 2nd. founding, (sorry, not sorry, there are so many of them). What have been pundering about is if the Void Rangers could have been lost in the warp... But I am to understand, that that's is a clichés and/or a poor/lazy excuse of why they are, as they are.

 

I would have like to have the Void Rangers hail from a large Great Crusade brotherhood which mainly consisted of Terran veterans. This brotherhood would then get lost in the Warp, only to appear at another age (like the White Scar brotherhood of the Blue Hawk, but in the Void Rangers' case, 2-3 millenial later instead). Upon their reemerged with the Imperium again, their loyalty would be put to the test and they were therefore pushed into some conflict (for example the War of the Beast, the Crusade by Thane afther the demise of the Beast, The Anarchy after Vangorich's death, or one of Abaddon's Black Crusades) depleated in this conflict. As a "reward" the survivors could chose between either joining the White Scars or one of their later foundings or opt. for joining newly founded Chapters (that being the 4th or 5th founding) with the Void Rangers being one of the new foundings...

I like the idear of ancient texts dating back from the early days of the Great Crusade althrough. I also like the idear of a having their first chapter master being in Deathwatch service for a substantial length of time and, upon his return felt he no longer could relate to his brother. When a new Founding was made, he voulentired/was choosen because of his service records and a little because they throught that perhaps it would be for the better for him, to take command of his own Chapter and strike his own course... Then the ancient text could have been a copy/parting gift from the White Scars alongside any other lore/text giftet to him from the chapter. He could also have made his own note, made from talks with other Deathwatch members he came acrose over the course of his service in the Deatchwatch... Anything from advice for the most optimal defence position from an Imperial Fists member, the tactical uses and versitality of the different squads from a Mentor sergeant, to the stealth philosophy of the Revilers or the considerations made in hand-to-hand combat from a Flesh Tearer. These notes, could have founded the basis philosophy for the Void Rangers' Schools of Throughts and Combat-cults...

 

What are you most for?

[Gamiel]

 

• Unknown Founding - They do not known much of their own history, and if they do, they do not speak of this, or how many chapters has gone before them with the current name or why they hide it. The officials story is that they have claim their current homeworlds after another chapter failed in some lost crusade.
• Put the past behind them - They look forward, not behind, for their future. They do not care of other people/astartes' failers. That is their problem, not theirs. They fight for a brighter future, not past glory (or that is what they want to believe).

Based on those two do I suggest not giving their older past any real thought. Just mention that they are known/belived to be of WS gene-seed, ant that the oldest mention if from M3[?] 

 

FOUNDING: ............................??? [M.34 a least] 

The officials story is that they have claim their current homeworlds after another chapter failed in some lost crusade.

over 5000 years is a very long time, it is actually possible that the former chapter that inhabited their fortress monastery was them during an earlier period when they had different colours and heraldry. But something happened that made them change but still kept their old banners, icons and relic armour around, and then later something else happened that made them loose their history and with that they lost their knowledge that those old armours and banners are theirs and not some other Chapter's

 

 

• Difficulty with some Chapters - They do not operate well with some of the other Chapters. This is due to old grudges or bad blood, mostly the Dark Angels and their successors who more than once have abandanden them in a warzone for some mysterios purposes.

Suggest changing "Dark Angels and their successors" into one or two specific Unforgiven chapters of not 1th founding. That would make the universe a bit bigger since it would not have the DA everywhere, also it would need to be a terrible crime (or the Rangers just have an overdeveloped sense of grudge keeping) for the Rangers to declare a whole gene-line problematic

Edited July 23, 2021 by Gamiel

[Gamiel]

 

The officials story is that they have claim their current homeworlds after another chapter failed in some lost crusade.

This could lead to some possible fluff, like:

* They have part of their armour in the old chapters colour as a way of honoring them, alternatively the battle-brothers given "homeguard" duty do that.

* As they claimed the lost chapters homeworld they took upon themself all that chapter's duties. They sometimes get calls for aid using codes that would make it a priority for the lost chapter (becouse of honur dept, a promise of aid, or similar) and they feel obliged to send forces even if the Rangers never have heard of the one/s who are sending the message.

* the old chapter had friends and/or allies that did not like that that the Rangers claimed the  old chapter's homeworld (or maybe the way it was done).

* the one/s that destroyed the old chapter have decided that the Rangers taking over the old chapter's homeworld/duties as a challenge and is working to destroy the Rangers.

[rookster]

 

Right so first of all I'm posting this with out any intended insault, It just really helped me set the starting bones for my wip chapter without going the mary sue route or well trodden tropes. its a bit dated but still super useful http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132379-guide-to-diying/.

 

So here is the issue I am seeing, trying to link a chapter to the horus heresy legions is going to be difficult, basically they would have to be 2nd founding which is basically locked down. which kinda leads you with 3rd founding our later. The problem with going 3rd founding is that its 1000 years after the end of HH and even though marines live a long time... they live violent lives.

 

What I would potentially suggest to you is that you look at established 2nd Founding chapters or even 3rd, and use them as your spring board so to speak, like in the raven guards case, take a look at the Raptors really cool chapter, and as a 2nd founding chapter they would have successor chapters. this also lets you get away from being under the primarks direct teachings, and means you can be more liberal in the tactics you use.

 

I've gone directly for a white scars successor from 4th founding, I initially was humming and hawing about wanting to have my first chapter master having ridden with the Great Khan himself, but I realized without some janky mary sue stuff it just wasn't going to happen. 

 

What you could also do by doing a successor of a successor is that among the relics gifted to the chapter upon its founding by its parent chapter were some ancient texts which could be the teachings and reports from one of those Pioneer company veterans. you could them use them as a kinda of "holy book" or what have you that your chapter bases its tactics and teaches upon.

No insult taking. I am posting because I wanted feedback and some validation. Therefore I must be open to critisizm. And you are right. I really do not want my Void Rangers to be of 2nd. founding, (sorry, not sorry, there are so many of them). What have been pundering about is if the Void Rangers could have been lost in the warp... But I am to understand, that that's is a clichés and/or a poor/lazy excuse of why they are, as they are.

 

I would have like to have the Void Rangers hail from a large Great Crusade brotherhood which mainly consisted of Terran veterans. This brotherhood would then get lost in the Warp, only to appear at another age (like the White Scar brotherhood of the Blue Hawk, but in the Void Rangers' case, 2-3 millenial later instead). Upon their reemerged with the Imperium again, their loyalty would be put to the test and they were therefore pushed into some conflict (for example the War of the Beast, the Crusade by Thane afther the demise of the Beast, The Anarchy after Vangorich's death, or one of Abaddon's Black Crusades) depleated in this conflict. As a "reward" the survivors could chose between either joining the White Scars or one of their later foundings or opt. for joining newly founded Chapters (that being the 4th or 5th founding) with the Void Rangers being one of the new foundings...

I like the idear of ancient texts dating back from the early days of the Great Crusade althrough. I also like the idear of a having their first chapter master being in Deathwatch service for a substantial length of time and, upon his return felt he no longer could relate to his brother. When a new Founding was made, he voulentired/was choosen because of his service records and a little because they throught that perhaps it would be for the better for him, to take command of his own Chapter and strike his own course... Then the ancient text could have been a copy/parting gift from the White Scars alongside any other lore/text giftet to him from the chapter. He could also have made his own note, made from talks with other Deathwatch members he came acrose over the course of his service in the Deatchwatch... Anything from advice for the most optimal defence position from an Imperial Fists member, the tactical uses and versitality of the different squads from a Mentor sergeant, to the stealth philosophy of the Revilers or the considerations made in hand-to-hand combat from a Flesh Tearer. These notes, could have founded the basis philosophy for the Void Rangers' Schools of Throughts and Combat-cults...

 

What are you most for?

 

I would suggest the deathwatch chapter master idea the most, I do understand the attachment to the great crusade brotherhoods, they are really interesting and have a lot of character. I think the deathwatch option offers you the best option as it doesn't tie you down to the chapters past so much, aka having to finess/force a bunch of crusade era marines far into the future. I think it also offers you the option of having your chapter have a higher then normal deathwatch service amongst its brothers, perhaps the chapters leadership is only chosen from veterains who have deathwatch service? also I think your idea is quite cool that the first chapter master learned from other chapters during his service and incorporated some of their philosophies and tactics into those that would make up his own chapter.

 

I think you are on the right track, keep focusing in and then you will have the basis from which to fully flesh them out. 

[Commander Nicky]

 

 

Right so first of all I'm posting this with out any intended insault, It just really helped me set the starting bones for my wip chapter without going the mary sue route or well trodden tropes. its a bit dated but still super useful http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132379-guide-to-diying/.

 

So here is the issue I am seeing, trying to link a chapter to the horus heresy legions is going to be difficult, basically they would have to be 2nd founding which is basically locked down. which kinda leads you with 3rd founding our later. The problem with going 3rd founding is that its 1000 years after the end of HH and even though marines live a long time... they live violent lives.

 

What I would potentially suggest to you is that you look at established 2nd Founding chapters or even 3rd, and use them as your spring board so to speak, like in the raven guards case, take a look at the Raptors really cool chapter, and as a 2nd founding chapter they would have successor chapters. this also lets you get away from being under the primarks direct teachings, and means you can be more liberal in the tactics you use.

 

I've gone directly for a white scars successor from 4th founding, I initially was humming and hawing about wanting to have my first chapter master having ridden with the Great Khan himself, but I realized without some janky mary sue stuff it just wasn't going to happen. 

 

What you could also do by doing a successor of a successor is that among the relics gifted to the chapter upon its founding by its parent chapter were some ancient texts which could be the teachings and reports from one of those Pioneer company veterans. you could them use them as a kinda of "holy book" or what have you that your chapter bases its tactics and teaches upon.

No insult taking. I am posting because I wanted feedback and some validation. Therefore I must be open to critisizm. And you are right. I really do not want my Void Rangers to be of 2nd. founding, (sorry, not sorry, there are so many of them). What have been pundering about is if the Void Rangers could have been lost in the warp... But I am to understand, that that's is a clichés and/or a poor/lazy excuse of why they are, as they are.

 

I would have like to have the Void Rangers hail from a large Great Crusade brotherhood which mainly consisted of Terran veterans. This brotherhood would then get lost in the Warp, only to appear at another age (like the White Scar brotherhood of the Blue Hawk, but in the Void Rangers' case, 2-3 millenial later instead). Upon their reemerged with the Imperium again, their loyalty would be put to the test and they were therefore pushed into some conflict (for example the War of the Beast, the Crusade by Thane afther the demise of the Beast, The Anarchy after Vangorich's death, or one of Abaddon's Black Crusades) depleated in this conflict. As a "reward" the survivors could chose between either joining the White Scars or one of their later foundings or opt. for joining newly founded Chapters (that being the 4th or 5th founding) with the Void Rangers being one of the new foundings...

I like the idear of ancient texts dating back from the early days of the Great Crusade althrough. I also like the idear of a having their first chapter master being in Deathwatch service for a substantial length of time and, upon his return felt he no longer could relate to his brother. When a new Founding was made, he voulentired/was choosen because of his service records and a little because they throught that perhaps it would be for the better for him, to take command of his own Chapter and strike his own course... Then the ancient text could have been a copy/parting gift from the White Scars alongside any other lore/text giftet to him from the chapter. He could also have made his own note, made from talks with other Deathwatch members he came acrose over the course of his service in the Deatchwatch... Anything from advice for the most optimal defence position from an Imperial Fists member, the tactical uses and versitality of the different squads from a Mentor sergeant, to the stealth philosophy of the Revilers or the considerations made in hand-to-hand combat from a Flesh Tearer. These notes, could have founded the basis philosophy for the Void Rangers' Schools of Throughts and Combat-cults...

 

What are you most for?

 

I would suggest the deathwatch chapter master idea the most, I do understand the attachment to the great crusade brotherhoods, they are really interesting and have a lot of character. I think the deathwatch option offers you the best option as it doesn't tie you down to the chapters past so much, aka having to finess/force a bunch of crusade era marines far into the future. I think it also offers you the option of having your chapter have a higher then normal deathwatch service amongst its brothers, perhaps the chapters leadership is only chosen from veterains who have deathwatch service? also I think your idea is quite cool that the first chapter master learned from other chapters during his service and incorporated some of their philosophies and tactics into those that would make up his own chapter.

 

I think you are on the right track, keep focusing in and then you will have the basis from which to fully flesh them out.

 

no offence, but I do not think, or want, that they have a higher than average contribution to the Deathwatch, or that the individual deatchwatch service is a critical factor for promotion. It is just... My Idear was acutally, to have the "School of Thoughts" and "Combat Cults/Combat Dojos" be the most important contributor for promotion. The School of Thoughts are pretty much a military acadamy for educating the individual Void Brother in the art of war-thinking/making, with each school focusing on a area war, while Combat Cults/Dojos are martial training, each also foussing on a area or techniques/expertise.

As I wrote in the in the intro, being member of one School or Dojo do not preclude one membership from another, and I was thinking, that the Chapter's leadership are almost always seniors in three or more Schools and Dojos. I also image, that they were very open and egalitarian in nature and, when opportunity arised, would invite members of other chapters to paticipate in lectures/traning classes, either as a honoured "student" or as a foreign lecture, so as to expand the Chapters knowleagde on war and combat.

 

I think it could be cool, to have the Chapter's homeworld be a former beloning to one of the chapters which were sent on the Abyssal crusade. As this chapter were corrupted or lost, its keep/chapter monastery were ceded to the Void Rangers.

 

Their grugde/feud against the Dark Angels and its successor is only directed towards those of the Unforgiving who share recruitment worlds. Because the Unforgiving have abbandon them more than once in heat of battle, The Void Rangers have encurde heavy losses, or worse, battle/war losts due to this (at least that is what they think). To compensate for their losses, the Void Rangers have more than once mass inducted whole generations of young men from recruitment worlds belonging to the Dark Angels and the Unforgiving, so as to replace the losses the Void Ranger' had incurred, thereby "repay" their "blood dept". Not supprisingly, this does not sites well with the Dark Angels and those of the Unforgiving they have close contact with, like the The Angels of Vengeance, the Angels of Redemption and Knights of the Crimson Order...

[Bjorn Firewalker]

no offence, but I do not think, or want, that they have a higher than average contribution to the Deathwatch, or that the individual deatchwatch service is a critical factor for promotion. It is just... My Idear was acutally, to have the "School of Thoughts" and "Combat Cults/Combat Dojos" be the most important contributor for promotion. The School of Thoughts are pretty much a military acadamy for educating the individual Void Brother in the art of war-thinking/making, with each school focusing on a area war, while Combat Cults/Dojos are martial training, each also foussing on a area or techniques/expertise.

As I wrote in the in the intro, being member of one School or Dojo do not preclude one membership from another, and I was thinking, that the Chapter's leadership are almost always seniors in three or more Schools and Dojos. I also image, that they were very open and egalitarian in nature and, when opportunity arised, would invite members of other chapters to paticipate in lectures/traning classes, either as a honoured "student" or as a foreign lecture, so as to expand the Chapters knowleagde on war and combat.

Good ideas.

I think it could be cool, to have the Chapter's homeworld be a former beloning to one of the chapters which were sent on the Abyssal crusade. As this chapter were corrupted or lost, its keep/chapter monastery were ceded to the Void Rangers.

Interesting idea. It'll inevitably invite questions regarding whether or not the Void Rangers use what relics the corrupted/lost Chapter left behind when the latter embarked on the Abyssal Crusade, and (assuming the other Chapter descended from a different Primarch) if the Void Rangers now have chimeric gene-seed (due to them using gene-seed stored in the corrupted/lost Chapter's fortress-monastery).

Their grugde/feud against the Dark Angels and its successor is only directed towards those of the Unforgiving who share recruitment worlds. Because the Unforgiving have abbandon them more than once in heat of battle, The Void Rangers have encurde heavy losses, or worse, battle/war losts due to this (at least that is what they think). To compensate for their losses, the Void Rangers have more than once mass inducted whole generations of young men from recruitment worlds belonging to the Dark Angels and the Unforgiving, so as to replace the losses the Void Ranger' had incurred, thereby "repay" their "blood dept". Not supprisingly, this does not sites well with the Dark Angels and those of the Unforgiving they have close contact with, like the The Angels of Vengeance, the Angels of Redemption and Knights of the Crimson Order...

This will add a lot of history to the Chapter. You should specify the Void Rangers have allies in other Chapters- maybe include the Black Templars among these allies- to explain why the Black Legion wannabes don't just exterminate the Void Rangers out of spite, or that the Fallen don't stage false flag operations to make the Black Legion wannabes engage in open warfare against the Void Rangers.

[Commander Nicky]

 

no offence, but I do not think, or want, that they have a higher than average contribution to the Deathwatch, or that the individual deatchwatch service is a critical factor for promotion. It is just... My Idear was acutally, to have the "School of Thoughts" and "Combat Cults/Combat Dojos" be the most important contributor for promotion. The School of Thoughts are pretty much a military acadamy for educating the individual Void Brother in the art of war-thinking/making, with each school focusing on a area war, while Combat Cults/Dojos are martial training, each also foussing on a area or techniques/expertise.

As I wrote in the in the intro, being member of one School or Dojo do not preclude one membership from another, and I was thinking, that the Chapter's leadership are almost always seniors in three or more Schools and Dojos. I also image, that they were very open and egalitarian in nature and, when opportunity arised, would invite members of other chapters to paticipate in lectures/traning classes, either as a honoured "student" or as a foreign lecture, so as to expand the Chapters knowleagde on war and combat.

Good ideas.

I think it could be cool, to have the Chapter's homeworld be a former beloning to one of the chapters which were sent on the Abyssal crusade. As this chapter were corrupted or lost, its keep/chapter monastery were ceded to the Void Rangers.

Interesting idea. It'll inevitably invite questions regarding whether or not the Void Rangers use what relics the corrupted/lost Chapter left behind when the latter embarked on the Abyssal Crusade, and (assuming the other Chapter descended from a different Primarch) if the Void Rangers now have chimeric gene-seed (due to them using gene-seed stored in the corrupted/lost Chapter's fortress-monastery).

Their grugde/feud against the Dark Angels and its successor is only directed towards those of the Unforgiving who share recruitment worlds. Because the Unforgiving have abbandon them more than once in heat of battle, The Void Rangers have encurde heavy losses, or worse, battle/war losts due to this (at least that is what they think). To compensate for their losses, the Void Rangers have more than once mass inducted whole generations of young men from recruitment worlds belonging to the Dark Angels and the Unforgiving, so as to replace the losses the Void Ranger' had incurred, thereby "repay" their "blood dept". Not supprisingly, this does not sites well with the Dark Angels and those of the Unforgiving they have close contact with, like the The Angels of Vengeance, the Angels of Redemption and Knights of the Crimson Order...

This will add a lot of history to the Chapter. You should specify the Void Rangers have allies in other Chapters- maybe include the Black Templars among these allies- to explain why the Black Legion wannabes don't just exterminate the Void Rangers out of spite, or that the Fallen don't stage false flag operations to make the Black Legion wannabes engage in open warfare against the Void Rangers.

 

I did actually not think about the Void Rangers possesed any relics from the former chapter... But I do not think, that a chapter, who would be granted a fellow chapter's keep, would be able to keep the inquisition out... Especially since that same fellow chapter, did turn on the Imperium...

I did already have in mind, that the chapter has good relationsships with the Black Templars, and perhaps also the Blood Angels. I was actually thinking, that the Void Rangers terminators should have partly painted their armours black, in honour of a "great campaign" in which the Black Templars helped the Void Rangers, at a severe cost in Templar lives.

 

Sorry for asking so naive, but: Who is the Black Legion wannabes?

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I was actually thinking, that the Void Rangers terminators should have partly painted their armours black, in honour of a "great campaign" in which the Black Templars helped the Void Rangers, at a severe cost in Templar lives.

Excellent idea! Maybe the left pauldron, as the Crux Terminatus is roughly the same shape as the crusader cross (what we call "Maltese cross") that is the Black Templars Chapter symbol?

Sorry for asking so naive, but: Who is the Black Legion wannabes?

The Dark Angels, not only for their pre-Heresy colors, but for their self-righteous behavior, and their tendency to attack the Emperor's loyal subjects in an attempt to eliminate witnesses to the Fallen Angels' presence (see the Crusade of the Ophidium Gulf for one of MANY such incidents).

[gripschi]

I was actually thinking, that the Void Rangers terminators should have partly painted their armours black, in honour of a "great campaign" in which the Black Templars helped the Void Rangers, at a severe cost in Templar lives.

 I would suggest that the 1st Company may have been lost otherwise the intervention of the BT. And the loss of Terminator Armour would be tremendous and very reasonable to hate the DA Sucessors for the nearly lost of it.

 

Overall iam eager to see more of the Death Watch Part, something i will maybe later add to my Equites Rehnus too in some form.

 

@Björn

 

I was honestly puzzeld what you mean with black legion wanabe. I thought what the f are they smugeling with the Dark Angels? later i understand you meant the BLack Templars.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I would suggest that the 1st Company may have been lost otherwise the intervention of the BT. And the loss of Terminator Armour would be tremendous and very reasonable to hate the DA Sucessors for the nearly lost of it.

Good ideas!

@Björn

 

I was honestly puzzeld what you mean with black legion wanabe. I thought what the f are they smugeling with the Dark Angels? later i understand you meant the BLack Templars.

I refer to the Dark Angels as "Black Legion wannabes" because their Inner Circle members ACT LIKE BLACK LEGIONNAIRES when they kill other loyal servants of the Emperor, to eliminate those who catch even a glimpse of the Fallen Angels (the Black Templars who participated in the Crusade of the Ophidium Gulf, being among the Dark Angels' many victims).

[Commander Nicky]

 

I was actually thinking, that the Void Rangers terminators should have partly painted their armours black, in honour of a "great campaign" in which the Black Templars helped the Void Rangers, at a severe cost in Templar lives.

 I would suggest that the 1st Company may have been lost otherwise the intervention of the BT. And the loss of Terminator Armour would be tremendous and very reasonable to hate the DA Sucessors for the nearly lost of it.

 

Overall iam eager to see more of the Death Watch Part, something i will maybe later add to my Equites Rehnus too in some form.

 

@Björn

 

I was honestly puzzeld what you mean with black legion wanabe. I thought what the f are they smugeling with the Dark Angels? later i understand you meant the BLack Templars.

 

 

I am thinking about the origin of the Chapter. Does it sound dum if the Chapter was founded by a marine (lets call him Koretada), who was tutored by the last White Scars (lets call him Daigo Khan, and let him be a Terran) who fought and survived the Siege of Terra. Daigo would be one of the White Scars who would witness the Great Scourge, the disappearing of The Warhawk and many other events of the Imperium. As time passed by and the last veterans from the Siege died, Daigo would begin collect, write and make notes on the art of war; starting to make a knowleade-base tomb for further work. By the time of the War of Beast, Dagio was a wise, respected, marine, but because of his unorthodox thinking and failing health, he had not acsended to become the Great Khan or found his own chapter. Daigo would fall in the War of The Beast, leaving his life-work and memories in the hands of his last, greatest, and most influenced pupil: Koretada. Koretada would join the Death Watch soon after and become one the longest serving members, continiueing Daigo's work. When the 5th or 6th founding accoured, Koretada would be chosed to become the Chapter Master of this new chapter; The Void Rangers.

 

 

I was actually thinking, that the Void Rangers terminators should have partly painted their armours black, in honour of a "great campaign" in which the Black Templars helped the Void Rangers, at a severe cost in Templar lives.

Excellent idea! Maybe the left pauldron, as the Crux Terminatus is roughly the same shape as the crusader cross (what we call "Maltese cross") that is the Black Templars Chapter symbol?

Sorry for asking so naive, but: Who is the Black Legion wannabes?

The Dark Angels, not only for their pre-Heresy colors, but for their self-righteous behavior, and their tendency to attack the Emperor's loyal subjects in an attempt to eliminate witnesses to the Fallen Angels' presence (see the Crusade of the Ophidium Gulf for one of MANY such incidents).

 

An idear, was that the Dark Angels and their Successor were on the egde of war with the Void Rangers when the Chapters (the Void Rangers, Dark Angels continent and element of their successors) were suddenly attack by an enemy (lest say orks), and only cooperation safe them from detruction. They would surely not be friends after this, but the hostility would be demised a bit.

 

I do not want the Void Rangers to get invovled into some plot with the Fallen...

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I am thinking about the origin of the Chapter. Does it sound dum if the Chapter was founded by a marine (lets call him Koretada), who was tutored by the last White Scars (lets call him Daigo Khan, and let him be a Terran) who fought and survived the Siege of Terra. Daigo would be one of the White Scars who would witness the Great Scouring, the disappearing of The Warhawk and many other events of the Imperium. As time passed by and the last veterans from the Siege died, Daigo would begin collect, write and make notes on the art of war; starting to make a knowleade-base tomb for further work. By the time of the War of Beast, Dagio was a wise, respected, marine, but because of his unorthodox thinking and failing health, he had not acsended to become the Great Khan or found his own chapter. Daigo would fall in the War of The Beast, leaving his life-work and memories in the hands of his last, greatest, and most influenced pupil: Koretada. Koretada would join the Death Watch soon after and become one the longest serving members, continiueing Daigo's work. When the 5th or 6th founding accoured, Koretada would be chosed to become the Chapter Master of this new chapter; The Void Rangers.

I think this is a great idea, but as I have little interest in the White Scars, I know too little of their Legion/Chapter history to say if it'll fit in the timeline. Best ask for a second and third opinion, from those who are White Scars devotees.

 

Nitpick:

You mistakingly referred to the Great Scouring as the "Great Scourge".

An idear, was that the Dark Angels and their Successor were on the egde of war with the Void Rangers when the Chapters (the Void Rangers, Dark Angels continent and element of their successors) were suddenly attack by an enemy (lest say orks), and only cooperation safe them from detruction. They would surely not be friends after this, but the hostility would be demised a bit.

The Dark Angels are aloof; they'll appear without giving any warning, and once they accomplish their objectives, they'll leave without a word. If the Chapters do come to blows, the Dark Angels will simply strike without warning, like assassins, and not allow the other Chapter any chance to defend itself. To prevent this, the other Chapter must be strong enough to survive such surprise attacks, and have powerful allies willing to ask questions on its behalf- the Space Wolves being one such Chapter.